Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Geno]

Halle-frickin'-jujah! I just in the last few days have sat through multiple watchings of the Monster Quest episodes (thanks for the link, WP) and while I was watching that episode air raid sirens went off in my head when 'cryptozoologist' (any zoology training?) John Kirk came on and gave the smug delivery of the 'all the guys claiming to be in the suit' line. BS meter BOOM! One wants to stand next to the cryptozoologist with a megaphone on 11 and shout "Names, please!" This is bigfootery perpetuating itself on lies. Think of all the poorly informed BF fans that were listening to Kirk and nodding along saying, "Heeey, yeah!"

Another greased eel I liked was Chris Murphy stating matter-of-factly that everyone who has really gotten into the PGF thinks it's real.

During Kirks statement about all the supposed 'guys in the suit' business they flash documents on the screen that I thought might have been articles about someone who confessed to being in the suit however when I paused the screen they turn out to be articles about Ray Wallace and his fake tracks.

 

[RayG]

If you sincerely think that anyone who thinks critically about the PGF works for the government, then I am genuinely concerned about your well-being.

Yeah, but some of us DO work for the government, and once upon a time, some of us even communicated on a regular basis with the NSA and similar agencies.

Histo just thinks it's ALL of us.

RayG

 

[Geno]

I believe historian has been vindicated..

Here is Patty, after final transformation, ready to be beamed up to the Mother Ship..

[qimg]http://www.gatzstuff.com/images/Bigfoot/monqust5.bmp[/qimg]

Holy cow Diogenes! That figure in the upper left corner is most certainly a bigfoot bending down taking a big ol' dump in the woods. Those bigfoot cannot even crap in the woods without a couple of Yakima cowboys invading their privacy.

 

[Married2aWooster]

Their is an unlimited budget for PSYOPS on U.S. citizens. PSYOPS exists for the purpose of CONTROLLING HOW YOU THINK THROUGH INTERNET DISTRIBUTED PROPAGANDA....{snip}...

I wish WE had an unlimited bu......errr.......I mean.......I wish THEY had an unlimited budget. Yeah, that's it, THEY.

So you're saying the US government has the ability to control how large populations think, but they haven't connected the dots enough to effectively employ it amongst the general population of folks outside the U.S? You know, the ones who think a large segment of our society is a few crayons short of a full box.

 

[Geno]

That entire program appears to be missing from the Internet. I suspect that some Bigfooters may have this on their hard drive. We keep seeing a variety of posted still frames from the program, but nobody is posting clips (such as on YouTube).

But the issue of the BH polygraph testing is quite interesting. There is ample evidence that these tests are not what many people think they are. There are good reasons to be skeptical that these tests can actually be accurate in 'determining lies'. Yet many people strongly believe that they do. Bob Heironimus seems to be one of them. He spoke about this on the March 2007 Tom Biscardi radio show interview. It is clear from the way he talks about polygraphs that he is a believer in their accuracy. He stresses the significance of the test and that he passed it. In spite of six people being on the program - none of them even brings up the notion that these tests may not be a very good way of detecting lies. It's like everybody on the show thinks they do work. A caller then mentions that RP passed this test. Long responds that it is cited but we have nothing else. Henry May mentions Bob Gimlin passing the test. Long says he never heard of this. Weeks later we learn that it was a false rumor.

What is especially interesting to me is BH's belief that they work and that he willing took the test. The actual results of the test are of lesser importance (to a polygraph skeptic) than the knowledge that BH willingly subjected himself to it. That's saying a lot if he himself thought the test would reveal lies. You are lying about being Patty and yet you go and take the test that will prove you are lying? That's a strange approach unless you are telling the truth or are willing to gamble on the results (knowing that you might pass in spite of lying). We are told that Patterson did pass a voluntary polygraph test as well. I don't recall him boasting of it afterwards nor do I recall Gimlin ever mentioning it. It's odd that Gimlin didn't bring it up in every interview. "... and not only that, but Roger passed one of those lie detector tests."

Maybe Gimlin lost faith in polygraphs after his hoaxing partner passed one.

The other polygraph Bob H passed was in front of the chief of police of Yakima. In regards to Dave Murphys claim that Bob could have been on meds that allowed him to pass the test I would think Patterson must have had been anticancer drugs or pain meds that could have also explained him passing one.

 

[erikbeckjord]

Wrong gender, sir.

That being said, your response does nothing but reinforce my point. Thanks for that.



Could you provide a link to that information? I'm not doubting your honesty. I'd just like to read the original document.



...but Gimlin's insistence that "Nope, it was real!" is all we're expected to accept, despite the many shortcomings of the suit?

Sorry; ain't buying it.



Oh, please. The other former BFF posters know who I am, so this is just nonsense.

(That being said, I AM disappointed that someone else came up with "Pattyphiles" independently. I was pretty pleased with that label. Ah, well.)



Come now.

No, I don't "work with" Dfoot. I just respect his work in this study.

I'm also, for the record, an old "Buffy" fan, though, so I do know of his professional work, too.

Of course, what does a film industry professional with extensive experience photographing creature suits know that a layman doesn't know about the PGF. Am I right? Am I right?



I'm sorry, did you REALLY say "different species of Bigfoot" there?

Until you establish the existence of even one species, I think you'd better be a little hesitant to expand the "family tree", so to speak.



Patent nonsense, and I'd hazard to say you're well aware of that fact.

Dfoot and others have demonstrated time and again that all of the technology required to make the PGF was available not only in the late 1960's but far, far earlier.

Which brings me to MY challenge: Want to shut people like me up? Go and create a Patterson Film Hoax.

No, I'm not kidding.

Go out there and do your darndest to match the look-and-feel of original piece, using the technology available at the time and before. Make sure to keep the subject as tiny as possible in the frame, and shake the camera like a crack-addicted monkey drinking a two liter bottle of Mountain Dew. Then, once processed, light blast the print, and finally only release a second-generation copy.

Try that out. You might be surprised at what you've created, and what it says about the PGF.



Evidence from an admitted hoaxer?

Short of his producing a freaking body, you and other credufoots would be wise to put an Atlantic-sized gap between yourselves and his "evidence".



Oh. My.



Seek help. Seriously.

If you sincerely think that anyone who thinks critically about the PGF works for the government, then I am genuinely concerned about your well-being.

Best of luck to you.

(...backing away slowly, not making eye contact...)

Avindair

Reply:

Beckjord ("He who cannot be named) made such a film in 1981,

on the banks of the Trinity River, using a 6'7" man and a gorilla suit

costume (within price range of Patterson) and using the same type of 16mm camera, and the result was Patty -500 and hoaxer - 0

Dr Meldrum and John Green both have copies of this.

So stop asking that it be done, because it WAS DONE

M.

 

[Married2aWooster]

Reply:

Beckjord ("He who cannot be named) made such a film in 1981,

on the banks of the Trinity River, using a 6'7" man and a gorilla suit

costume (within price range of Patterson) and using the same type of 16mm camera, and the result was Patty -500 and hoaxer - 0

Dr Meldrum and John Green both have copies of this.
So stop asking that it be done, because it WAS DONE

M.

YouTube or other web link?

 

[erikbeckjord]

Rumour has it that this film will be shown in March in GA at a Bigfoot convention.

el m

 

[erikbeckjord]

What amazes me is this attitude that researchers "have" to present all they have on the Internet so lazy jerks can avoid ever driving to see something, or paying cash to rent
a video, to satisfy their whim to see things without lifting a finger to do so, except by mouseclick.

M

 

[Married2aWooster]

What amazes me is this attitude that researchers "have" to present all they have on the Internet so lazy jerks can avoid ever driving to see something, or paying cash to rent
a video, to satisfy their whim to see things without lifting a finger to do so, except by mouseclick.

M

That's me, "The Amazing Lazy Jerk".

I foresee that it'll be my title here someday.

 

[SweatyYeti]

When you say 'same degree of body contour', are you referring to the body contour of the person inside the suit, or the costume contour of the bigfoot suit?

When I say "body contour", I'm refering to the contour of what can be seen....the outline of the subject.

In these two subjects...one 'right leg' has no realistic body contour to it (the back of the leg is perfectly straight)....and the other one does....

Also, how do you differentiate between a costume bulging during walking, and muscle movement.

In addition, Why does the body above the hip move when the 'beast' turns, but below the hip, the body does not move?

Thanks in advance for your answer!

I'll respond to these questions later....as soon as I have the time to do so.

 

[kitakaze]

When I say "body contour", I'm refering to the contour of what can be seen....the outline of the subject.

In these two subjects...one 'right leg' has no realistic body contour to it (the back of the leg is perfectly straight)....and the other one does....

Houston, we have a problem...

1) You've been shown lots suits with 'body contour'.

2) You've been shown lot's of shaggy orangutan legs without.

3) You are comparing right legs when one is obscured by foliage.

Thought of any reason why my Harley Hoffman video is easily identifiable as a man in a shaggy suit?

Let me guess... Later?

 

[Cuddles]

Free speech exists in name only, in the U.S. Constitution. If you open your mouth and voice an opinion here that is contradictory to the "approved opinion", you will be relentlessly attacked, berated, abused and ultimately, verbally destroyed by the paid character assassins that frequent JREF. Of course, your body will not be personally attacked. But every opinion, every photo, every thought and every action will be endlessly attacked.

You appear to have a few rather major problems here. Firstly, free speech means just that. You are free to say whatever you like, within certain limits, but so is everyone else. You keep complaining about free speech, but it seems that you want everyone who disagrees with you to be banned from saying anything, which doesn't sound very free to me. Merely berating and attacking you (regardles of the fact that this hasn't actually happened here) in no way prevents you from carrying on voicing your opinion, no matter how bizzare, and therefore has nothing to do with free speech.

Your second, even bigger, problem is that the US constitution applies solely to the US government. This is a privately owned forum posted on by private individuals, many of them not in the US at all. If the owner so wished, we would be free to limit speech as much as we liked, with no legal or constitutional issues at all. On private property, you have very few rights at all.

Finally, possibly the biggest problem, is that everything you say is wrong. You have made claims, and have either refused to support them or been proven wrong. Usually both. Disagreeing with you is not an attack. Proving you wrong is not character assassination. If you make claims, especially on a skeptic's forum, it is up to you to back them up with evidence. If you fail to do so, any reaction to your claims is your fault, and yours alone.

 

[Aepervius]

Oh, I wish I still had room in my sig...

Yeah. Nice sig material.

*whistle innocently*

 

[historian]

Finally, possibly the biggest problem, is that everything you say is wrong. You have made claims, and have either refused to support them or been proven wrong. Usually both. Disagreeing with you is not an attack. Proving you wrong is not character assassination. If you make claims, especially on a skeptic's forum, it is up to you to back them up with evidence. If you fail to do so, any reaction to your claims is your fault, and yours alone.

Cuddles,
I will use Locknar's techniques here, that you claim do not exist on JREF. Which would mean your statement denying that they do exist is an outright lie. But I am not calling you a liar, mind you. Every word in the above paragraph written by yourself, is clearly an outright lie. Skeptics have not proven anything. Skeptics CAN'T prove anything. You can't prove anything. I have provided a long and detailed list on exactly where evidence can be obtained. I have even explained exactly how to obtain the evidence in the field for yourself, over and over again. But both you and all the other skeptics refuse to do one iota of research and/or read any of the reference material. It is because your minds are closed. But then you have the audacity to post here that my claims are wrong and that I refuse to support them. Consequently, your statements above would be a complete and total LIE. But I am not calling you a liar, mind you. Lying is the STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE for skeptics on this board. Which is to misrepresent reality in spades. Misrepresentation is fraud. And both you and they, get away with it over and over, because the mod's are also skeptics and in the same camp. Note that I did not specifically call any of you either FRAUDS AND/OR SCAM ARTISTS either, because that is how Locknar does it.

Conversely, you absolutely refuse to support your outrageous claims. For you, the best defense is a good offense. Which is why you are attacking me instead of supporting your outrageous claims. Disagreeing is not providing evidence. Disagreeing does not mean squat here because BIGFOOT CANNOT BE REASONED BY YOUR LIFETIME OF OBSERVATIONS OF SCIENTIFICALLY CLASSIFIED FLORA AND FAUNA. So you have absolutely nothing in the old brain pan, that you can refer to in order to reach any valid conclusions about BIGFOOT. BIGFOOT IS INTER-DIMENSIONAL. SCIENTISTS REFUSE TO PUBLISH RESEARCH ON INTER-DIMENSIONAL PEOPLE. You should write the bold type down on the top of both hands in indelible ink, so that you can remember it next time you get the urge to type something that comes into your head, onto your computer keyboard. Have a nice day Cuddles. And please note that I did not call either you, the skeptics and/or the mod's any names other than "skeptics".

 

[JohnWS]

The ignore button is strangely liberating . Never used one before.

 

[William Parcher]

IBF talk has no business being in this thread.

 

[manofthesea]

Like Jesus Turning Over Tables

If you make claims, especially on a skeptic's forum, it is up to you to back them up with evidence. If you fail to do so, any reaction to your claims is your fault, and yours alone.

I'd say that if you put the fencesitters with those of the faith then it'd be pretty even, skeptics to bearers of the truth.

ETA: Didn't mean offense. I'm at home this week because I strained my shoulder. Hard to work outdoors with a sore paw. Carry on.

 

[Drewbot]

That was not IBF talk that I was partaking in, it was free speech talk citing his examples that we have asked for evidence in support of.

By the way, Munn is now describing how he would build a Patty suit on BFF.

 

[William Parcher]

By the way, Munn is now describing how he would build a Patty suit on BFF.

But to venture a guess, I'd say somewhere in the $10,000 - $15,000 ballpark for 1967 dollars for what was described above. About 10x today, in all likelyhood.