9/11 Conspirators - Naming Names, List included

[RedIbis]

In a word....YES.

If Myers had done as RI implies, he would have potently been guilty of such things as issuing unlawful orders, interference of those performing lawful duties, exceeding the lawful duties of the JCS, etc.

Oh ok, so ignoring what was happening outside the office door while our nation is under attack was the proper thing to do?

And actually fulfilling his responsibilities would have made him guilty?

Oh boy, you guys know no limits when it comes to covering for the neglectful.
What a frikkin joke.

 

[T.A.M.]

No Red, give us a timeline of when and where he was, what he was doing, and what, in your opinion, he should have been doing.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

No Red, give us a timeline of when and where he was, what he was doing, and what, in your opinion, he should have been doing.

TAM

Check the thread, TAM, I've done that.

 

[T.A.M.]

ok, so your contention is that instead of remaining in said meeting, he should have been...

(A) Trying to reach the President?
(B) Trying to get to the Pentagon?
(C) Meeting with his people to come up with a response?

SO my questions are...

(A) Do we have proof he was aware of the attacks and THEN stayed 24 additional minutes in his meeting, and if so, then,
(B) Do we know that he DID NOT communicate with the President, Vice President, Secretary of Defense, or anyone else in the US Admin?

TAM

 

[Good Lt]

Oh ok, so ignoring what was happening outside the office door while our nation is under attack was the proper thing to do?

And actually fulfilling his responsibilities would have made him guilty?

Oh boy, you guys know no limits when it comes to covering for the neglectful.
What a frikkin joke.

Coming from a Troofer who knows no limits when making wild accusations with no evidence to support them?

So awesome.

 

[DavidJames]

This is brilliant work Red, brilliant. After 6 years you are the only one smart enough to uncover the real culpability behind allowing the 9/11 tragedy. In the entire world, only RedIbis has been able to uncover the single person who could have stepped in and stopped those events.


Excellent Red. Now, other then posting here, what have you done to bring this criminal to justice?

 

[RedIbis]

If the debate now is about letting Myers off the hook because he didn't want to be disturbed and was therefore not responsible for completely ignoring the attacks, I'll stop right now.

You guys/gals are cool with that. I'm not.

I've said it as many times as I know how. He was the acting, top military advisor to the commander in chief. Please don't tell me that Myers has no cell phone access, a staff right outside that office door. Do not even try to suggest that Cleland's phones weren't ringing off the hook, staff and assistants in furious activity, information flying through channels.

And you guys call yourselves skeptics? I gave you the name of a person I believe was suspiciously neglectful, in deriliction of his duty, someone who deserves to be fully investigated, with all possible subpoena powers.

We obviously disagree, I'm cool with that. Ready to move on to the next topic.

 

[Reheat]

I'll attempt to state what is obvious to most folks here, once again for the umpteenth time. It will go over the troofers head, but I'm not busy now and perhaps it needs to be said once again.

Myers could not and would not have been able to do ANYTHING that wasn't done to prevent the attacks once they began. No matter where he was or if he had been "advising the President" as our resident idiot thinks. It would have made no difference.

AA11 and UA175 WOULD NOT have been shot down no matter who was in charge (except an idiot troofer). There was NO OTHER WAY to prevent the attack on the WTC short of the jihadists killing themselves or missing the target. The simple reason was that "NO ONE" knew they were hostile until after the WTC attack was over. In other words, no matter who was in charge and no matter who was calling the "shots" there would have been no shoot down of an American Flag Carrier with US Citizens on board at that point in time. That is indisputable FACT and it's not going to change due to some idiot typing BS on his keyboard transmitting stupid ideas across the Internet.

Now, there was ~40 minutes between UA175 hitting the WTC and the AA77 strike at the Pentagon. Whooooo, that's a long time (only to a troofer). Where were they going to attack next, or were they, and with how many. With 20/20 hindsight I'm sure Nasypany now wishes that he had launched the Langley fighters earlier to establish a CAP over Washington, DC. But, the key point is how did he know where and at what time an attack would occur? He didn't and he wisely was reluctant to commit his fighters without knowing the specifics of an attack. Air Defense fighters do not have unlimited fuel and they must be committed judiciously. Nasypany did exactly that, but with 20/20 hindsight he was late launching the Langley fighers. It would be more appropriate to blame Nasypany for culpability than Myers.

What if the attacks had been on Chicago, LA, Philadelphia, Atlanta, or a dozen other places? Then we'd have these same idiots making other accusations of a similar tune.

It was a SURPRISE ATTACK! It was a SURPRISE ATTACK! Get it? I feel certain that if Myers had known he would have rescheduled his meeting for another time or another day and then he could have then watched it all on CNN like most others that day.

 

[funk de fino]

If the debate now is about letting Myers off the hook because he didn't want to be disturbed and was therefore not responsible for completely ignoring the attacks, I'll stop right now.

Who says he did not want to be disturbed? Only you. Stop accusing without proof you sad person

You guys/gals are cool with that. I'm not.

I've said it as many times as I know how. He was the acting, top military advisor to the commander in chief. Please don't tell me that Myers has no cell phone access, a staff right outside that office door. Do not even try to suggest that Cleland's phones weren't ringing off the hook, staff and assistants in furious activity, information flying through channels.

And you guys call yourselves skeptics? I gave you the name of a person I believe was suspiciously neglectful, in deriliction of his duty, someone who deserves to be fully investigated, with all possible subpoena powers.

We obviously disagree, I'm cool with that. Ready to move on to the next topic.

Pathetic, you accuse a man without knowing when he knew it was an attack and whether you knew if any one person tried to inform him.

What you have to show is that someone tried to tell him what was happening during the meeting, then that he ignored it, then sling the mud. You cannot prove anything.

When he saw the first plane on TV and the reports he probably thought the same as everyone else in the world at that moment - it was an aircraft accident. He then went into his meeting with the congressman and was then not disturbed therefore he did not know what was happening.

When did you know it was an attack Red - 9:03?

You put your head above the parapet and got it shot. Big deal, live with it and move on

 

[MIKILLINI]

It was a SURPRISE ATTACK! It was a SURPRISE ATTACK! Get it! I feel certain that if Myers had known he would have rescheduled his meeting for another time or another day and then he could have then watched it all on CNN like most others that day.

To carry that further, if Myers had known it was coming he would have rescheduled, as you say Reheat. Then make simple irrelevant decisions that make him appear to be in total control of the situation.
See what I'm getting at Red? The presence of Gen. Myers in total control of the situation. The presence known, noticed, seen by many. Thats the "Cover Your Fanny Perpendicular" routine an inside job conspiracist would do to escape suspicion.

 

[Locknar]

Oh ok, so ignoring what was happening outside the office door while our nation is under attack was the proper thing to do?

And actually fulfilling his responsibilities would have made him guilty?

Oh boy, you guys know no limits when it comes to covering for the neglectful.
What a frikkin joke.

You really don't get the "advisory" role of the JCS do you...but by all means, don't let that stop you from leveling ludicrous charges.

The JCSs function is strategic in nature, not tactical. Hence, he has no authority to act in a tactical function.

 

[BenBurch]

Well, let me see, time to get a pilot suited, aircraft armed and fueled and ready for a walk-around is about 20 minutes in these post-cold-war days.

Figure takeoff, and climb to altitude another 10.

That leaves ten minutes to intercept and shoot down the Pentagon aircraft.

Can't be done.

Not even in theory.

Not even were the 757 directly OVER the airfield when the order was given.

 

[Reheat]

Well, let me see, time to get a pilot suited, aircraft armed and fueled and ready for a walk-around is about 20 minutes in these post-cold-war days.

Figure takeoff, and climb to altitude another 10.

That leaves ten minutes to intercept and shoot down the Pentagon aircraft.

Can't be done.

Not even in theory.

Not even were the 757 directly OVER the airfield when the order was given.

And these statements relate to the discussion, how?

Be careful about what you post. Every single statement you've made here is INCORRECT.

It could easily have been said by a troofer as EVERYTHING in it is WRONG!

 

[BenBurch]

And these statements relate to the discussion, how?

Be careful about what you post. Every single statement you've made here is INCORRECT.

It could easily have been said by a troofer as EVERYTHING in it is WRONG!

Well, correct me! I am here to learn. How long does it take to scramble these days? I know that the "Ready Line" that we used to see in the old films on SAC no longer exists. And I know that five minutes is considered to be a respectable scramble time when such a line does exist. I've created a topic to discuss this, and will crosspost this reply there.

 

[Reheat]

Well, correct me! I am here to learn.

Fair enough.

On 9/11 the NORAD Fighters were on 15 minute alert. That means from the claxon to airborne must be within 15 minutes. They can beat that time, but 15 minutes was the requirement on 9/11.

The time COULD have been shorter, it has varied from 5 minutes to 10 minutes to 15 minutes over the years. The number of aircraft on alert has also varied over the years. In order to assure a 5 minute response, the pilots would need to be sitting in the cockpit. That is a strain on manpower and other resources. Due to the peace dividend since the end of the Cold War, the required response time had been reduced over the years. Also, the entire Air Defense mission in the US had been turned over to the Air National Guard. That's not particularly important, but merely a statement to illustrate reality and the mindset leading up to 9/11. No Active Duty AF assets were on Air Defense alert on 9/11.

Regardless, for ANY aircraft on ANY type of quick response alert, there is no "walk around", the aircraft are cordoned off or in a shelter and are as "fully cocked" as they can possibly be. For example, any switch that can be in the proper position without manipulation by the pilot is already positioned.

If you're addressing aircraft NOT on any specified "Alert Status", the response time would vary considerably due to a myriad of reasons. Fuel status, location of munitions, number of personnel available, number and type of munitions to load, type of aircraft etc., etc.....

The "troofer crowd" have always been confused by the term "Combat Ready". That is the formal status of all US Military warfighting equipment that is reported to the JCS, daily. That term does not mean they can be ready for Combat on a moments notice.

Next, aircraft performance. The F-15 holds the time to climb record to 50,000 (until the F-22 breaks it) (see Streak Eagle). It was done with a stripped down, cleanly configured aircraft during cold weather. The pilot took his morning constitutional and did not eat breakfast in order to keep the weight to a minimum!!!! Now, even an armed Air Defense F-15 can accelerate after take-off going 90 degrees STRAIGHT UP. An F-16 is not quite as capable, but nearly so.

One other point to make here. The time to intercept depends upon several factors too. Distance to target being the most notable. Troofers typically calculate the maximum published speed of either an F-15 or F-16 while ignoring (perhaps intentionally) the fact that the aircraft has munitions hanging off the wings and usually fuel drop tanks. The published top speed is for a CLEANLY configured aircraft, not one with munitions or fuel tanks mounted.

I can outline several actual contingencies in which a large number of aircraft have responded quickly, but don't be in a hurry. It's a lazy afternoon just prior to Christmas!

 

[A-Train]

Fair enough.

On 9/11 the NORAD Fighters were on 15 minute alert. That means from the claxon to airborne must be within 15 minutes. They can beat that time, but 15 minutes was the requirement on 9/11.

The time COULD have been shorter, it has varied from 5 minutes to 10 minutes to 15 minutes over the years. The number of aircraft on alert has also varied over the years. In order to assure a 5 minute response, the pilots would need to be sitting in the cockpit. That is a strain on manpower and other resources. Due to the peace dividend since the end of the Cold War, the required response time had been reduced over the years. Also, the entire Air Defense mission in the US had been turned over to the Air National Guard. That's not particularly important, but merely a statement to illustrate reality and the mindset leading up to 9/11. No Active Duty AF assets were on Air Defense alert on 9/11.

Regardless, for ANY aircraft on ANY type of quick response alert, there is no "walk around", the aircraft are cordoned off or in a shelter and are as "fully cocked" as they can possibly be. For example, any switch that can be in the proper position without manipulation by the pilot is already positioned.

If you're addressing aircraft NOT on any specified "Alert Status", the response time would vary considerably due to a myriad of reasons. Fuel status, location of munitions, number of personnel available, number and type of munitions to load, type of aircraft etc., etc.....

Etcetera, etcetera.....blah, blah, blah. Hundreds of words in this post, but you haven't even begun to ask the obvious questions regarding NORAD's response on 9/11.

• Why were the Otis fighters not given the scramble order until 8:46, when AAL11 was known to be in serious trouble, and even known to have been hijacked, no later than 8:40 and probably many minutes before that?

• Why were the Langley fighters sent out over the Atlantic, when the hijacked planes were all over the continental US? If you're going to embrace the official nonsense about the pilots and local ATC controller being "confused," please explain how they could have been so under such a routine scramble situation? Go into detail describing the source of their alleged confusion.

• Explain what the "technical issue" was (the term used by the 9/11 Commission) that resulted in the alleged loss of tapes of the NEADS weapons director's orders in the above two situations.

You've never answered these questions and you never will-- because you can't. You can fill up your posts with all the techno-jargon you want, if it makes you feel like a big shot. But you'll never be able to answer the simple questions and explain the complete failure of NORAD on 9/11. That's because the failure is inexplicable to those of us who understand the air defense system. The evidence has all been covered up, and we are left to legitimately suspect that a standdown was enacted by a small group of infiltrators within NEADS.

 

[DGM]

Etcetera, etcetera.....blah, blah, blah. Hundreds of words in this post, but you haven't even begun to ask the obvious questions regarding NORAD's response on 9/11.

• Why were the Otis fighters not given the scramble order until 8:46, when AAL11 was known to be in serious trouble, and even known to have been hijacked, no later than 8:40 and probably many minutes before that?

• Why were the Langley fighters sent out over the Atlantic, when the hijacked planes were all over the continental US? If you're going to embrace the official nonsense about the pilots and local ATC controller being "confused," please explain how they could have been so under such a routine scramble situation? Go into detail describing the source of their alleged confusion.

• Explain what the "technical issue" was (the term used by the 9/11 Commission) that resulted in the alleged loss of tapes of the NEADS weapons director's orders in the above two situations.

You've never answered these questions and you never will-- because you can't. You can fill up your posts with all the techno-jargon you want, if it makes you feel like a big shot. But you'll never be able to answer the simple questions and explain the complete failure of NORAD on 9/11. That's because the failure is inexplicable to those of us who understand the air defense system. The evidence has all been covered up, and we are left to legitimately suspect that a standdown was enacted by a small group of infiltrators within NEADS.

Etcetera, etcetera.....blah, blah, blah.

 

[Reheat]

There have not been many instances in the years following WWII that large numbers of US Fighter/Bomber Aircraft have had to response to a contingency on short notice.

One notable except was an incident in 1976 in South Korea. Two US Army Officers were murdered with an axes in the village of Panmunjom in the DMZ by North Korean guards.

Shortly afterward, the response began eventually leading to "Operation Paul Bunyan".

http://www.vfwpost7591.org/opn-PB.html

Within a very short period of time following the murders, the JCS tasked a Squadron of F-111F's to deploy from Mountain Home AFB, near Boise, ID to Taegue AB, South Korea. 19 F-111F's were deployed within 12 hours.

http://www.f-111.net/t_no_F.htm

The aircraft flew in flights of 6 aircraft (with a straggler) to equal a total of 19 aircraft. The flying time from Mountain Home to Taegue is approximate 10-12 hours depending upon winds and required 4-5 air-to-air refuelings enroute for each aircraft. The first 6 aircraft were on the tarmac at Taegue loaded with full armament and ready for War in under 24 hours from the initial tasking. The other aircraft followed shortly in waves with each of the 6 aircraft configured for War in under 1 hour after landing. I'm not going to list all of the other support assets required for that deployment because I don't know the full numbers, but it was pretty enormous. It included multiple C-141's transports and multiple KC-135's tankers all responding on short notice.

While the initial response time to any contingency anywhere in the world is continually being refined and improved the emphasis is also on sustainability. The turnaround time on aircraft is amazing to watch. The capability for hot refueling and hot arming is practiced and tested. What that means is that the aircraft keeps engines running while it is being refueled and rearmed simultaneously with the pilot remaining in the cockpit or being replaced by one who is rested.

 

[Reheat]

<snip> "troofer blowhard material"

Go blow your nose elsewhere. You have been "smacked down" so many times you should be disabled by now. You're off topic anyway.....

 

[MIKILLINI]

The evidence has all been covered up, and we are left to legitimately suspect that a standdown was enacted by a small group of infiltrators within NEADS.

Your comprehension has been covered up A-Train. You suffer from cognitive dissonance, unless you are moving away from that and don't believe any hijacker commandos bailed out of flight 77.
That doesn't appear possible though, judging from the bolded part above.