9/11 Conspirators - Naming Names, List included

[SDC]

Remind us again of your answer to the question of how he was supposed to interrupt his meeting if no-one told him what was happening?

Thats right you never answered. Why not?

Explain how he dawdled if he did not know?

It does make it appear that Red I. has moved beyond LIHOP-limbo into the MIHOP-zone. His/her statements only make sense if the government was behind the attacks.

I always suspected (in so far as I thought anything about it) that the chief task of the Joint chief was to schmooze and soothe Congress. Which would mean he was exactly where he should have been.

 

[Locknar]

I'm not picking a fight with anyone. And even if you're claims were substantiated it would mean absolutely nothing to me, nor change the fact that Myers was diddling when he should have been fully engaged.

Quick question, how old are you?

Given the JCS is only an advisor, and has no authority to order or otherwise Command forces...what should he have been doing?

 

[RedIbis]

I'm out of here before I get banned in dealing with this piece of ______.

You mean you're out of here before you're forced to prove your specious claim.

I'm shocked that no one else is calling for validation of this whopper.

 

[RedIbis]

Apparently RedIbis is not aware of how the military chain of command works.

In the absence of input from higher officials, the person who is the senior-ranked official in a position to give orders takes command. If GEN Myers were in a meeting and not available, someone else would be in charge.

Plus, as others here have said, the position of "Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff" does not confer any right to command this nation's military. That person would conceivably have the ability to give orders to their own BRANCH of the military, but the only person who has overall jurisdiction over all four branches is our idiot President.

Red, I suggest you learn a little more about how the military works before you go accusing someone of something they weren't necessarily responsible for.

His responsibility was to advise the president and what military options and resources were available for the best possible response. Instead, he was in a meeting undisturbed. The attacks on the WTC and Pentagon are complete by the time he gets back to the Pentagon. Perhaps, that's acceptable to you, but I don't know any professional environment where such crisis neglect would be considered acceptable, especially in this situation.

Please explain how anything going on in that meeting with Cleland renders Myers "unavailable." How about he make himself very available to advise the commander-in-chief on how the military should respond at the earliest possible moment it was determined that the nation was under attack.

By 9:03 anyone paying attention knew we were under attack, except apparently Myers. Myers doesn't leave his meeting with Cleland for approximately 24 minutes more. What in the hell were they talking about, the good ole days in Nam? It sure wasn't a joyride for Cleland.

 

[rwguinn]

Yeah, he met with a Democratic Senator for some forty minutes at the exact moment that all of his military experience and authority was most needed.

This should warm any American's heart:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k90/jrubins101/myersmedaloffreedom.jpg

Red-
This is the silliest argument you have ever gotten into--and that is going some. It also demonstrates your lack of reading skills.

Why was he in a meeting with a Senator?

Go back and READ the Damn report!

He wans't confirmed in the (rule10) post yet! He was simply ACTING!
bye, bye

 

[RedIbis]

Red-
This is the silliest argument you have ever gotten into--and that is going some. It also demonstrates your lack of reading skills.

Why was he in a meeting with a Senator?

Go back and READ the Damn report!

He wans't confirmed in the (rule10) post yet! He was simply ACTING!
bye, bye

Don't go so quickly. It was not a matter of him being confirmed. He was simply acting in the place of Hugh Shelton who was flying over the Atlantic. I believe it is you who needs to re read the information.

As acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs he chose to attend an inconsequential meeting instead of advising the president.

 

[T.A.M.]

by hard evidence I mean...

(A) Prove he had enough advance notice to do something about the attacks.
(B) Prove that he purposely sat on this knowledge.
OR
(C) Prove he had the knowledge but incompetently failed to act.

TAM

just to remind you Red:

If you do not have above evidence, than I will assume your naming this man was simply based on speculation and opinion...which is fine, as much as I and others may disagree, you are entitled to it.

TAM

 

[stilicho]

What is "mild LIHOP"?

It sounds a bit like mildly pregnant. We're talking about extreme criminal negligence, deriliction of duty, and worse complicity. So who would you add to that list?

Personally, if I were a "truther", I'd blame it all on Cheney and Wolfowitz. Those are the easiest ones to sling mud at because few people admire them anyhow.

But, back to the point at hand, I highly doubt you returned to this thread just to talk about that. Everyone who's politely argued with you has indicated at least two main points:

#1] Gen. Myers didn't even know what was happening before the second airliner hit the WTC.

#2] His role as Acting Chairman of the JCS prohibited him from doing anything about the procedures in place on 9/11.

His role prohibited him from exercising military command over either the JCS or any of the armed forces. Did you know either of those things before you were just told here?

 

[RedIbis]

Personally, if I were a "truther", I'd blame it all on Cheney and Wolfowitz. Those are the easiest ones to sling mud at because few people admire them anyhow.

But, back to the point at hand, I highly doubt you returned to this thread just to talk about that. Everyone who's politely argued with you has indicated at least two main points:

#1] Gen. Myers didn't even know what was happening before the second airliner hit the WTC.

#2] His role as Acting Chairman of the JCS prohibited him from doing anything about the procedures in place on 9/11.

His role prohibited him from exercising military command over either the JCS or any of the armed forces. Did you know either of those things before you were just told here?

#1- That's exactly what I mean by deriliction of duty. His job is to know what was happening.

#2 - Anything? How about advising the president, that is his job afterall. Again, you are far too lenient and willing to give the guy a pass. Why is that?

 

[JamesB]

Red, you've picked a fight with the wrong guy.

You see, I know Richard Myers personally. I flew on his wing in combat. As I said earlier he is more of a man than you can ever hope to be in 10 lifetimes.

I saw him in the chow hall at Eagle Base once. A four star carrying his own tray, I was impressed.

 

[stilicho]

#1- That's exactly what I mean by deriliction of duty. His job is to know what was happening.

#2 - Anything? How about advising the president, that is his job afterall. Again, you are far too lenient and willing to give the guy a pass. Why is that?

#1] That presumes a lot. Remembering the reports supplied that morning, and before the second plane hit, did you think it was a terrorist attack on the USA? You are asking not only the Acting Chairman of the JCS to possess god-like omniscience, but also his entire staff.

#2] Go read his own statement to the Commission, RI. He explains exactly what he did and what his role was. To paraphrase him, he did not know if the strikes were isolated or a part of a days-long plan to destroy even more targets. So he went to work on that part of the strategic planning. He also immediately wanted to know where the Secretary of Defence was once he arrived at the Pentagon.

You are impugning the character of someone based on presumption and ignorance, RI. You are trying to side-step this by retreating to a position that assumes that he was supposed to be "advising" the President instead of working on the strategic problem he was facing. You claim he "should" have known things that nobody knew.

To whom would you have left the strategic planning if you had been in his position?

 

[twinstead]

Personally I find the 'if I ran the circus' arguments some of the most tedious.

 

[Reheat]

Note that our ignorant pipsqueak has evaded an answer to to the question of what Gen Myers should have done had he not been in the meeting and at the Pentagon instead.

It is quite obvious that he has no clue.

If your only affiliation with things military is a video game you might believe that the (Acting) Chairman of the [twoofer mode]World's Most Powerful Military[/twoofer mode] can command fast starships and giant robots to appear and solve all problems. They can make everything happen and if they are not there with their hand on the joy stick those magical things don't happen.

I speculate that the reason that he is so amazed and doubts that I know Gen Myers personally is that in his delusional mind Myers is not a real person. He's just a name and didn't have a career in the AF, a family, friends, or that anyone here is from a similar background and crossed paths with him several times. That just doesn't happen in his world, so it is illogical that it might happen in other's REAL WORLD.

The fact that anyone here pays attention to him is to his delight. He is empower by that because he feels important. This entire thread and his mystery man has played into his delusion little game.

Rest assured he will be back with the same tired BS that has characterized his presence here in the past....

 

[johnny karate]

The thing to remember though is no matter how frustrating or infuriating it is to deal with these people, whatever points they think they are scoring on this forum amount to exactly nothing in the real world.

Out there reality goes on unaffected by their intellectual flailings and wild accusations, and these people are viewed as nothing more than frauds and cranks.

 

[BenBurch]

I'm not picking a fight with anyone. And even if you're claims were substantiated it would mean absolutely nothing to me, nor change the fact that Myers was diddling when he should have been fully engaged.

Quick question, how old are you?

You need to stop. This is getting too personal now.

 

[Locknar]

His responsibility was to advise the president and what military options and resources were available for the best possible response. Instead, he was in a meeting undisturbed. The attacks on the WTC and Pentagon are complete by the time he gets back to the Pentagon. Perhaps, that's acceptable to you, but I don't know any professional environment where such crisis neglect would be considered acceptable, especially in this situation.

Please explain how anything going on in that meeting with Cleland renders Myers "unavailable." How about he make himself very available to advise the commander-in-chief on how the military should respond at the earliest possible moment it was determined that the nation was under attack.

By 9:03 anyone paying attention knew we were under attack, except apparently Myers. Myers doesn't leave his meeting with Cleland for approximately 24 minutes more. What in the hell were they talking about, the good ole days in Nam? It sure wasn't a joyride for Cleland.

What exactly should he have advised the President on? The advisory role of the JCS is geared toward long term goals; which is what the JCS did wrt post military action (ie. Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.).

That aside, the President's and SECDEF's direction was very clear post attack - business as usual.

It is clear you truly lack any understanding wrt how the military works, but don't let this stop you from leveling accusations at folks.

 

[stilicho]

If your only affiliation with things military is a video game you might believe that the (Acting) Chairman of the [twoofer mode]World's Most Powerful Military[/twoofer mode] can command fast starships and giant robots to appear and solve all problems. They can make everything happen and if they are not there with their hand on the joy stick those magical things don't happen.

That's mine too, but I have a great deal of respect for those who serve their country. A close relative (now deceased) served in the Royal Marines and a childhood friend grew up to become a military observer in the Canadian contributions to UN missions abroad among other duties in our armed forces.

The one thing both of them told me is the speed of events in a military situation--something you cannot conceive of in a simulation. Nor a video game. Sometimes you press the "fire button" and nothing happens. Only you could be dead by the time you fix the problem...no giant killer robots around to save you...no cheat code to enter.

All this is anecdotal, of course, since RI is supposed to explain how Myers could know things that nobody knew or do "something" outside of his role to prevent the attacks. The last weak rejoinder was about "shoulda been advising" instead of working on the strategic planning in case of a days-long attack against other targets. "If I ran the circus", indeed.

As a final note, the form of inquiry employed by RI is reminiscent of Robespierre: "Whoever trembles at this moment is guilty..."

 

[T.A.M.]

Well so far Red has not provided any evidence, so I am taking the suggestion of Meyers as negligent or incompetent to be Red's opinion only, and given he has presented little to no evidence to back up his stance, I would say take said opinion with a grain of salt.

So any other truther/agnostic willing to step up to the plate and name a name?

TAM

 

[beachnut]

funny stuff comes from shallow research

Yeah, he met with a Democratic Senator for some forty minutes at the exact moment that all of his military experience and authority was most needed.

This should warm any American's heart:

The military runs fine without these two micro managing things. You see, they did swear me in to live up to my oath. I had authorization on 9/11 to take action, I just did not have the opportunity, no one attacked my car as I sat in traffic for two hours. If a pilot had as many clues as the passengers on flight 93, the Air Force/Navy/Marine/Army aviators would take action to stop the terrorist. You do not understand how and why the United States operates. You have failed here, but gee, maybe you can do better next time if you gain some knowledge and experience. The JCS chief does authorize some missions I was on, but he does not make the decisions for me when I do my mission. You have forgotten why our military is great; you never knew. I am not sure what Reheat would do, nor I, but given the knowledge of the passengers on flight 93, that level of knowing, and given a fighter or even my Tanker, I could stop the terrorist on 9/11. Your point has failed. I cheated, I served the country for 28 years, I would not hesitate to take action on 9/11, given knowledge and opportunity, flight 93 pax did, I hope I would! Nuf said. You are busted on this one.

 

[Reheat]

If a pilot had as many clues as the passengers on flight 93, the Air Force/Navy/Marine/Army aviators would take action to stop the terrorist. You do not understand how and why the United States operates.

<snip>

I am not sure what Reheat would do, nor I, but given the knowledge of the passengers on flight 93, that level of knowing, and given a fighter or even my Tanker, I could stop the terrorist on 9/11. Your point has failed. I cheated, I served the country for 28 years, I would not hesitate to take action on 9/11, given knowledge and opportunity, flight 93 pax did, I hope I would! Nuf said. You are busted on this one.

Well, I can tell you this. This very issue was a topic of conversation on NUMEROUS occasions during boring times on Alert! It always involved an aircraft with a nuke weapon. No one ever discussed a suicide hijacker as it was just unheard of at the time.

The unarmed Andrew's F-16 Pilots discussed this issue and devised a plan to do it, if necessary.

Yep, if Myers had been at the Pentagon he would likely have been watching TV, like everyone else not directly involved while waiting for the reports to come in about "Here's what's happened".

Because the FAA dropped the ball on calling the NMCC, they were a spectator for the entire period of the attacks. The lowest ranking Airman at NEADS had more to do with 9/11 during the attacks than anyone at the Pentagon.

Of course, the planners at the Pentagon facilitated the massive response later in the day and during the days that followed, but during the attacks they were likely watching CNN.