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Will There Be Apology Headlines?

Yoink said:
This is fun. It's "make Tokie say something even stupider than usual" day! O.K., the WSJ's business reporting is in thrall to the left wing of the Democratic party. That's an extraordinarily stupid thing to say, true, but I think we just might be able to get him to say something stupider. Who's with me?

How about we get him to say that Fox News is also a shill for the Democratic Party? Here, Tokie, explain this little piece of "pro-Hillary-propaganda" from "Fox Business":
Yep--Roger Ailes, that well known Hillary-bot....
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I love people who understand neither economics nor statistics.

Here are the hard numbers, now being sheepishly reported by left-advocacy "news" organs such as NBC, CBS, CNN, NYTimes et al.: brick and mortar sales up: 8% (total) over last year (yes, sales records from Podunk may not yet be in...do you really believe that they will drive this number down?) and online: 15% up over last year.

You can parse it however you please, but the left-advocacy media was afire with "predictions for holiday spending this year are suggesting all time lows due to consumer fears for the economy because a Republican is in office and we want to see a lefty there...I er, that is to say...because Americans are so ascared!!!!"

Turns out um....not so much. Turns out this is almost as big a lie as the "Americans will not be traveling this Thanksgiving and even if they do, they will be lined up at TSA checkpoints until sometime after Easter!!!!" and the one that says "most Americans will lose their homes to foreclosure very, very soon!!! Vote for Hillary!!!!"

Same stuff we always see in the run up to an election...or have for the past 28 years, anyhow, from an increasingly shrill, left-advocacy "news" media.

The facts is what they is. You can run around in circles waving your hands over your head shrieking as how wrong that Token is, but it will not change these simple facts:

1. YOUR left-advocacy media was lying

2. The lie has been found out, and since they ARE your media, you are now doing everything you can to continue believing and propogating the lie.

3. Truth does not matter when leftists are intent on taking power.

Tokei
 
Tokie, I'm still wondering what "left-advocacy media" you've been listening to, and how much time you must have spent scanning the opposition to come up with your generalization. Or could it be that you're basing your observations on someone else's generalization? I did not see these dire predictions you attribute to the "left-advocacy media" in the newspaper I read and the radio stations I listen to. You keep characterizing the "left" as shrill and shrieking, but the only shrillness I hear is yours.
 
Tokenconservative said:
Indeed. It's stupid. Romantic is romantic...this was just...stupid.

If they really wanted to save some energy, they might've tried playing the game at noon. Outdoors. And turning off the lights. Let's face it one 6-10 hour football game under the lights uses about the same amount of energy as say, Toledo does in a month.

Tokie
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I think you missed my point; perhaps I wasn't clear. My point was that saying "run[ning] a game by candlelight" creates a different impression to people who hadn't seen the game of what actually happened. The stadium wasn't lit by candles, only the broadcast booth during halftime. It's spin on your part to make the situation sound more extreme than it really is to fit your view. It's like saying that the NFL is committed to using solar power by playing games outdoors in the afternoon. If you want to make a cogent point, there's no reason to have to either stretch the truth or worse, invent a truth to support a viewpoint.

And when do football games last 6-10 hours? And do you have a link showing how much power is used at a typical football stadium for a three-plus hour game and how much power is used by the 715,320 Toldeoans (at least according to the 2006 US Census) living in the greater metropolitan Toldeo area during a typical month and how the two figures compare? I'd be curious to see the difference.

Link for Toledo population (just to show that I didn't just invent a number to make a point):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo,_Ohio

Michael
 
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Tokenconservative said:
I love people who understand neither economics nor statistics.

Here are the hard numbers, now being sheepishly reported by left-advocacy "news" organs such as NBC, CBS, CNN, NYTimes et al.: brick and mortar sales up: 8% (total) over last year (yes, sales records from Podunk may not yet be in...do you really believe that they will drive this number down?) and online: 15% up over last year.

You can parse it however you please, but the left-advocacy media was afire with "predictions for holiday spending this year are suggesting all time lows due to consumer fears for the economy because a Republican is in office and we want to see a lefty there...I er, that is to say...because Americans are so ascared!!!!"

Turns out um....not so much. Turns out this is almost as big a lie as the "Americans will not be traveling this Thanksgiving and even if they do, they will be lined up at TSA checkpoints until sometime after Easter!!!!" and the one that says "most Americans will lose their homes to foreclosure very, very soon!!! Vote for Hillary!!!!"

Same stuff we always see in the run up to an election...or have for the past 28 years, anyhow, from an increasingly shrill, left-advocacy "news" media.

The facts is what they is. You can run around in circles waving your hands over your head shrieking as how wrong that Token is, but it will not change these simple facts:

1. YOUR left-advocacy media was lying

2. The lie has been found out, and since they ARE your media, you are now doing everything you can to continue believing and propogating the lie.

3. Truth does not matter when leftists are intent on taking power.

Tokei
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Tokie, old bean, I said nothing at all about statistics. I pointed out that Fox News reported pessimism among retailers about Black Friday spending. You claim that only left-wing news sources were trying to peddle this story in order to scare people about the economy so that Hillary Clinton would get elected (why the "left liberal" media want a conservative centrist like Clinton elected is a puzzle that only a deranged conspiracy theorist could answer, but what they hey). Now, given that Fox News reported the same story you have two options:

1) you claim that Fox News is part of the vast left wing conspiracy (and thereby prove that you're a paranoid nut-job).

Or

2) You admit that there is no vast left wing conspiracy (and admit that you're a paranoid nut-job.)

I don't really see any alternative for you, Tokie.
 
Tokenconservative said:
Here are the hard numbers, now being sheepishly reported by left-advocacy "news" organs such as NBC, CBS, CNN, NYTimes et al.: brick and mortar sales up: 8% (total) over last year (yes, sales records from Podunk may not yet be in...do you really believe that they will drive this number down?) and online: 15% up over last year.
Click to expand...

Well, "hard numbers" is actually a bit of a stretch. The 8% figure comes from a company called "ShopperTrak" (the actual figure they gave was 8.3%, but I'll forgive the rounding), which uses foot traffic to estimate sales in brick and mortar stores. I'd be more inclined to think that the online estimates are more accurate representations of actual sales, and they do look quite promising (hell, I did all my shopping online... screw waiting at the mall).

You can view their website at this URL: http://www.shoppertrak.com/index.php

And you can read a Bloomberg article that mentions the company, as well as the various figures, here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPrwprvdNoQw&refer=home

I made the links open so you wouldn't have to try too hard to see that they're not leftist liberal shill plant links to direct you to goat porn or something. ;)

Anyway, I'm not seeing hard sales figures for Black Friday yet, but it seems that the estimates are for a moderate increase over last year. That's certainly not doom 'n' gloom, but I don't recall hearing any particularly dismal predictions for Black Friday.

You can parse it however you please, but the left-advocacy media was afire with "predictions for holiday spending this year are suggesting all time lows due to consumer fears for the economy because a Republican is in office and we want to see a lefty there...I er, that is to say...because Americans are so ascared!!!!"
Click to expand...

I really wish you'd provide some evidence of the "leftists" claiming that the retail season was going to be horrible rather than just expecting us to take it on faith or something.

All the stories I saw were to the effect of "concerns about the housing market may dampen the retail season." Hardly "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!!!!!!" material.

Consumer confidence doesn't really have anything to do with the President's political party. The CC index has, as a matter of fact, been trending downward: http://www.conference-board.org/economics/consumerconfidence.cfm

But I'm guessing that has to do with the credit squeeze and housing situation, possibly oil prices (but that's not really news now, so I'm guessing it's more the housing market). Of course, the housing/credit thing isn't leftist doom propaganda either - it's simply a natural extension of the financial sector's over-extension of credit to poor quality risks and over speculation in housing.

The market will correct for it, I think. Some people will get hurt, but this isn't the first time we've had an economic hiccup like this, and it won't be the last.

But anyway, it's not unreasonable to predict a slight downturn in sales when the confidence index is trending downward. Again, that doesn't have to do with politics, just consumer behavior. What were you saying about economics again?

Turns out um....not so much. Turns out this is almost as big a lie as the "Americans will not be traveling this Thanksgiving and even if they do, they will be lined up at TSA checkpoints until sometime after Easter!!!!" and the one that says "most Americans will lose their homes to foreclosure very, very soon!!! Vote for Hillary!!!!"
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone actually said anything even approaching those two things, Token. I think that in your political zealousness, you are unable to look objectively at issues that really have very little to do with politics.

3. Truth does not matter when leftists are intent on taking power.
Click to expand...

I've found that this particular sword cuts both ways, Token.
 
bruto said:
Tokie, I'm still wondering what "left-advocacy media" you've been listening to, and how much time you must have spent scanning the opposition to come up with your generalization. Or could it be that you're basing your observations on someone else's generalization? I did not see these dire predictions you attribute to the "left-advocacy media" in the newspaper I read and the radio stations I listen to. You keep characterizing the "left" as shrill and shrieking, but the only shrillness I hear is yours.
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I'M NOT THE SHRIIIIIILLLLLL ONNNEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
bruto said:
Tokie, I'm still wondering what "left-advocacy media" you've been listening to, and how much time you must have spent scanning the opposition to come up with your generalization. Or could it be that you're basing your observations on someone else's generalization? I did not see these dire predictions you attribute to the "left-advocacy media" in the newspaper I read and the radio stations I listen to. You keep characterizing the "left" as shrill and shrieking, but the only shrillness I hear is yours.
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Fair enough: NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC TV and radio news (as applicable) and two local news papers reporting both themselves and with the NYTimes, AP and Scripps wire services.

Tokie
 
coalesce said:
I think you missed my point; perhaps I wasn't clear. My point was that saying "run[ning] a game by candlelight" creates a different impression to people who hadn't seen the game of what actually happened. The stadium wasn't lit by candles, only the broadcast booth during halftime. It's spin on your part to make the situation sound more extreme than it really is to fit your view. It's like saying that the NFL is committed to using solar power by playing games outdoors in the afternoon. If you want to make a cogent point, there's no reason to have to either stretch the truth or worse, invent a truth to support a viewpoint.

And when do football games last 6-10 hours? And do you have a link showing how much power is used at a typical football stadium for a three-plus hour game and how much power is used by the 715,320 Toldeoans (at least according to the 2006 US Census) living in the greater metropolitan Toldeo area during a typical month and how the two figures compare? I'd be curious to see the difference.

Link for Toledo population (just to show that I didn't just invent a number to make a point):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo,_Ohio

Michael
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I'm not sure if you are obtuse on purpose or it's just the way you are.

Of course I didn't believe the announcer's booth at that game was candlelit for romance. Um...far's I know, two manly-man announcers were in there and while I am sure plenty of gays like football, the reality is that were the color and play-by-play guys enjoying a nice bottle of wine, maybe some oysters and playing footsies under the table, NBC'd have much bigger problems than their energy bill.

It was stupid. I thought I made that pretty clear when I said previously that it was um...well...stupid. It wasn't stupid because it didn't really save any energy, it was stupid because it was um...well, stupid.

I don't watch football...I guess it just seems like they last 6-10 hours. I did not say "greater metropolitan Toledo." I said Toledo.

Once again, pedantics aside, a normal person would recognize that my throwing out Toledo was not meant to be taken literally...Toledo's a mid-sized American city and has a very recognizable name (coulda said Elko, but then people like you would say "it's spelled 'elk' Tokie! And what do large deer native to North America have to do with it!?"

See how that works? Pedantics has it's place...but not among thinking folks.

Tokie
 
By the way, Tokie, old pal, the main source of the pessimistic news reports about the impending Black Friday sales was that well known lefty-commie-pinko organization: The National Retail Federation. Here's a link: http://www.nrf.com/modules.php?name=News&op=viewlive&sp_id=370

So--don't you think if the National Retail Federation is actively campaigning to get Hillary into the White House that that suggests that a Hillary Clinton presidency will be good for business? Why else would the National Retail Federation peddle these lies about their forecasts for the economy?

Or, perhaps you suspect that America's retail businesses have been taken over by communists in a long running infiltration operation dating back to the 1930s? And now they're finally exercising their dastardly plan: to put a moderate business-as-usual Democrat into the White House!! Flee! Flee for your life!!!
 
Tokenconservative said:
Fair enough: NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC TV and radio news (as applicable) and two local news papers reporting both themselves and with the NYTimes, AP and Scripps wire services.

Tokie
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Fair enough, I guess; since I can't check whether your perception of the news is accurate, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it that all those sources were wrong. You should turn off your TV and listen to NPR more often, I guess. :D
 
bruto said:
Fair enough, I guess; since I can't check whether your perception of the news is accurate, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it that all those sources were wrong. You should turn off your TV and listen to NPR more often, I guess. :D
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That makes sense... of course you'd have no way of knowing, when a "news" report says that "most sources" are (were) predicting a "bad year" for retailers this (2007) year, what they mean by that. Maybe by "bad" they meant it in a Michael Jackson way. Or as one poster in here is suggesting over and over, all that tourism traffic in stores is "bad" for the floors.

Yeah, I can see how that would confuse you.

You are a liberal.

As to listening to NPR. You must live on the southern coast. I can't get Radio Havana where I live, though.

Tokie
 
Tokenconservative said:
That makes sense... of course you'd have no way of knowing, when a "news" report says that "most sources" are (were) predicting a "bad year" for retailers this (2007) year, what they mean by that. Maybe by "bad" they meant it in a Michael Jackson way. Or as one poster in here is suggesting over and over, all that tourism traffic in stores is "bad" for the floors.

Yeah, I can see how that would confuse you.
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You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
 
Tokie--shouldn't you be more concerned by the commie takeover of the National Retail Federation than by the commie slant of the MSM? I'd have thought moles in the inner sanctum of capitalism would be more troubling to you than what a bunch of ink-stained wretches believes.
 
Tokenconservative said:
That makes sense... of course you'd have no way of knowing, when a "news" report says that "most sources" are (were) predicting a "bad year" for retailers this (2007) year, what they mean by that. Maybe by "bad" they meant it in a Michael Jackson way. Or as one poster in here is suggesting over and over, all that tourism traffic in stores is "bad" for the floors.

Yeah, I can see how that would confuse you.

You are a liberal.

As to listening to NPR. You must live on the southern coast. I can't get Radio Havana where I live, though.

Tokie
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No, I live in Vermont. I don't know what Radio Havana has to do with anything, since I would imagine Radio Havana would have happily reported as gloomy a forecast as possible, which is exactly what I keep saying I did not hear. You seem to miss my point entirely, and to be completely deaf to what I'm saying. My point is simply that your take on which media reported what may be in error. NPR and the Rutland Herald are likely more liberal than the sources you cited, yet they did not, as far as I recall at least, make the gloomy predictions you attribute to the liberal press. I did not hear that most sources were predicting a bad season. I heard that they were predicting a rather lackluster season on average, neither particularly bad nor particularly good.
 
Tokie,
You just don't get it do you?

A Reuters news feed from New York, citing the (USA-based) National Retail Federation. See? The could print it in Mumbai, but it's still an article on USA RETAIL SALES. The fact that the article (about US retail) was in a UK newspaper doesn't mean a thing.

8% MORE PEOPLE! Wow! But they didn't spend any money! Even you must understand that basic tenet of the economy. If they ain't spending, you ain't making no money!

Sales were down. Where's your apology for starting a thread with reversed scare-mongering headlines?

Please provide the corelative as to the amount of money spent on line versus the amount of money not spent in the brick and mortar facilities.
 
Yoink said:
Tokie--shouldn't you be more concerned by the commie takeover of the National Retail Federation than by the commie slant of the MSM? I'd have thought moles in the inner sanctum of capitalism would be more troubling to you than what a bunch of ink-stained wretches believes.
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Hmmm...interesting point. Not the Red baiting, but the other.

It's not so much that I care what the 4th Estate or its minons have to say, it's that they beat their drum long and loudly enough (as both Lenin and Herr Doktor Goebbels taught them so well) and any lie they tell becomes the truth.

Anyone who seriously today, maintains that the vast majority of "news" organs in America are not decidedly left-biased if not outright left-advocacy, is either so far the left him or herself they cannot be relied upon to offer a reasonably objective opinion, or they are a complete moron.

Take your pick. Even the NYTimes own review of itself found that they were at minimum "slanting" the news to the left.

Why you believe that slant would not find its way to the business pages in an election year when the left really hasn't anything else to hang its hat on save the economy, and why you think their media would not help them by biasing the public into believing, against the facts, that the economy is in the dumper.

I notice that no one in here has jumped on me for noticing that the left-advocacy media was ALSO shrieking that "high" gas prices (lower, relatively, than throughout most of the 1970s) would be keeping people home on Thanksgiving, and that "poor planning" on the part of Bush's Homeland Security would make lines at airports 2 and 3 hours long.

Thanksgiving went off without a hitch. Few people let the relatively moderate price of gas keep them home and wait times in security lines at the nation's busiest airports never topped a half-hour....and yet TOKIE is the blind nutcase?

Tokie
 
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