[Moderated]The Holocaust never happened!

Third time, kageki. Please answer so that we can direct you to the information you need. Thank you.

Specifically what evidence would convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews (not to mention all the other civilians they killed for various reasons)?
 
Gravy said:
Third time, kageki. Please answer so that we can direct you to the information you need. Thank you.

Specifically what evidence would convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews (not to mention all the other civilians they killed for various reasons)?
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Well how about anything Gravy? But that's not what I asked you.

Please answer this specific question because that is what I am specifically asking at this moment.

Did Nazis burn Jews alive in ovens?
 
kageki said:
Well how about anything Gravy? But that's not what I asked you.

Please answer this specific question because that is what I am specifically asking at this moment.

Did Nazis burn Jews alive in ovens?
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No idea. I never claimed they did.

I'm beginning to be concerned that no evidence will convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews. Is that the case? If it is, please say so and I'll discontinue my efforts here.

If there is evidence that will convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews, please state what it is. You will save us all a lot of time chasing after your ever-moving goalposts and trying to redirect you from your strawman arguments.

So specifically what, if anything, will convince you? This is the fourth time I'm asking. Thank you.
 
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kageki said:
Well it seems like even in the summer it would not be possible since it was a marsh.

So we can agree no burning pits of bodies ever happened and it was made up?
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No. You're wrong.

What about the mass shootings? Approx 2 mln Jews killed.
 
kageki said:
It's not a strawman and you know it. The specific question is whether 6 millions Jews really died in the Holocaust. Ok?

I don't know about you if it turns out the gassing and the ovens were made up I would be a little pissed.
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You are still wrong. Best ests are 6 mln. Hilberg (I think) preferred a little over 5 mln.

Most by gassing, some by shooting, others by starvation, disease and being worked to death while in German imprisonment.

Your arguments are wretched. Give up, Pumpkin.
 
kageki said:
We are debating here specifically if Jews were burned alive in ovens.
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No, that's exactly what we are not debating.

The Jews were not burned alive in ovens.

They were gassed first, and then burned in ovens.

No ovens.
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No, the ovens themselves are quite real. We have construction documents, statements from workers, eyewitness reports, and physical evidence.

But you are right in one regard. The Jews were dead before they were put in the ovens.
 
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Firestone said:
One more strawman. Why should I provide evidence for something I haven't claimed? :confused:

Now, that's a claim you make! Care to provide evidence?

(ETA: of course, the link to the Yad Vashem website I gave above proves you wrong.)
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Well you didn't claim it off course. Man you people are just ridiculous. Isn't this what we are told what happened in the Holocaust? That Nazis burned Jews alive in ovens?

http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/04en/jews/6millionlie.htm

For the permission to return to the Promised Land, God allegedly demanded from them a "6-Million-Holocaust-Offering", so the high priests interpreted a Torah prophecy that reads: "You shall return" (due to a spelling mistake the priests interpret it this way "You shall return, minus 6 million")

This self-imposed prophesy – without fulfilment of this prophesy the return to the Promised Land would not be permitted – led to the 1919 "six-million-prophecy-crash". Based on the Balfour-Declaration of 1917 the state of Israel was guaranteed, and the Diaspora-Jews would return to the "Promised Land". The leading Jews at that time expected 1920 a migration of their brethren into "their Land". But, before the return could take place, "6 million" of them had to disappear, according to the wrongly interpreted prophecy.

In fact, Jewish organisations proclaimed already in 1919 a "6 million-holocaust", taking place in the Ukraine: "Six million men and women are dying; eight-hundred-thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the law of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..." [The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, Nbr. 582]
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kageki said:
Get a new line. I'm done with the demagoging and the industrialisation is exactly what's being disputed.

Historians mull over numbers. It's nothing new and it's done for the sake of accuracy and you know it.

5 million.
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The industrialisation was required by the scale of the killing. 5 million would still require killing on an industrial scale. As for historians mulling over numbers, genuine historians are prepared to revise the numbers either way for the sake of accuracy. Holocaust deniers like you are only interested in revising them one way for the sake of making the Nazis look morally defensible. It's dishonest and morally repugnant.

Dave
 
Gravy said:
No idea. I never claimed they did.

I'm beginning to be concerned that no evidence will convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews. Is that the case? If it is, please say so and I'll discontinue my efforts here.

If there is evidence that will convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews, please state what it is. You will save us all a lot of time chasing after your ever-moving goalposts and trying to redirect you from your strawman arguments.

So specifically what, if anything, will convince you? This is the fourth time I'm asking. Thank you.
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Well why don't you start linking stuff Gravy instead of asking me what would convince me?

Why are YOU so fixated about the Jews? Clearly Nazis had a much bigger plan then just Jews.

LOL. I never made the claim so.. what? It's a simple question which requires that you don't need to make any claims. You people should be lawyers.

Ovens. Debunked.
 
kageki said:
Well you didn't claim it off course. Man you people are just ridiculous. Isn't this what we are told what happened in the Holocaust? That Nazis burned Jews alive in ovens?
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No, it isn't. We're told that the Nazis initially persecuted the Jews through restrictive laws and semi-official racist attacks, then rounded them up and forced them into closed-off ghettoes, then started cutting off their food supplies leading them to trade all their possessions for food, then seized any possessions they still had and forced them to work as slave labour, used them in medical experiments, gassed them with truck exhaust gases, shot them, hung them, bayonnetted them, gassed them with Zyklon B and burned the dead bodies, and that they overran most of Western Europe and sought out as many Jews from other countries as they could lay their hands on so they could kill them as well. Does the fact that they didn't necessarily burn them alive somehow make any of that OK?

Dave
 
drkitten said:
No, that's exactly what we are not debating.

The Jews were not burned alive in ovens.

They were gassed first, and then burned in ovens.



No, the ovens themselves are quite real. We have construction documents, statements from workers, eyewitness reports, and physical evidence.

But you are right in one regard. The Jews were dead before they were put in the ovens.
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Good. I'm glad we have established that no Jews were burned alive in ovens and that the ovens are nothing more then for cremation of DEAD bodies.

No mass gassings.

No Jews were burned alive in ovens.
 
kageki said:
Well why don't you start linking stuff Gravy instead of asking me what would convince me?
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If you'll recall, kageki, I gave you links to a great deal of information, including Nizkor's answers to the IHR's 66 questions about the Holocaust. I asked you what, if anything, you disputed, and asked you to back your claims with evidence. You didn't do that.

We all have limited time, kageki. This subject is vast. I'm sure you realize that. You could spend the rest of your life bringing up anomalies you perceive in the historical record and demanding that they be debunked – work that has no doubt been done by others, but that you aren't interested in finding on your own.

Can we agree that the main issue here is whether the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews (and others)? If so, then we've got a starting point.

Let's take this one step at a time. kageki, is there any evidence that would convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews?

Yes or no?
 
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kageki said:
Firestone said:
kageki said:
The fixation on 6 million is from the Jews who take it out of the story from the Talmud.
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Now, that's a claim you make! Care to provide evidence?

(ETA: of course, the link to the Yad Vashem website I gave above proves you wrong.)
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Well you didn't claim it off course. Man you people are just ridiculous. Isn't this what we are told what happened in the Holocaust? That Nazis burned Jews alive in ovens?

http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/04en/jews/6millionlie.htm

For the permission to return to the Promised Land, God allegedly demanded from them a "6-Million-Holocaust-Offering", so the high priests interpreted a Torah prophecy that reads: "You shall return" (due to a spelling mistake the priests interpret it this way "You shall return, minus 6 million")

This self-imposed prophesy – without fulfilment of this prophesy the return to the Promised Land would not be permitted – led to the 1919 "six-million-prophecy-crash". Based on the Balfour-Declaration of 1917 the state of Israel was guaranteed, and the Diaspora-Jews would return to the "Promised Land". The leading Jews at that time expected 1920 a migration of their brethren into "their Land". But, before the return could take place, "6 million" of them had to disappear, according to the wrongly interpreted prophecy.

In fact, Jewish organisations proclaimed already in 1919 a "6 million-holocaust", taking place in the Ukraine: "Six million men and women are dying; eight-hundred-thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the law of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..." [The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, Nbr. 582]
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Priceless!
Do you even understand the concept evidence? :confused:

You claimed: "The fixation on 6 million is from the Jews who take it out of the story from the Talmud."

And your "evidence" is some antisemitic website repeating the same claim, but without evidence for said claim.

So do you have evidence for your claim (like the story in the talmud you are refering to), or do you mindlessly repeat nonsense you find on conspiracy-site?

If you don't have evidence, please retract your claim.
 
Dave Rogers said:
The industrialisation was required by the scale of the killing. 5 million would still require killing on an industrial scale. As for historians mulling over numbers, genuine historians are prepared to revise the numbers either way for the sake of accuracy. Holocaust deniers like you are only interested in revising them one way for the sake of making the Nazis look morally defensible. It's dishonest and morally repugnant.

Dave
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The number is being debated.

When you say "industrialization" you do mean about extermination camps? Which means they had burned people alive in ovens and gassed people in gas chambers.

They did not exist. The trucks however may seem possible, but the feasibility of it is also disputed.

No "industrialization" more then how anyone would kill people in wars.
 
Firestone said:
Priceless!
Do you even understand the concept evidence? :confused:

You claimed: "The fixation on 6 million is from the Jews who take it out of the story from the Talmud."

And your "evidence" is some antisemitic website repeating the same claim, but without evidence for said claim.

So do you have evidence for your claim (like the story in the talmud you are refering to), or do you mindlessly repeat nonsense you find on conspiracy-site?

If you don't have evidence, please retract your claim.
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The story from the Talmud is not evidence?
 
Kageki,

Do you now concede that the Germans did gas Jews?

Because you seem to be hiding in a corner screaming "they didnt burn people in ovens!"

Which is fine, (entirely up to you how you behave) but it makes you look silly. That's all
 
Gravy said:
If you'll recall, kageki, I gave you links to a great deal of information, including Nizkor's answers to the IHR's 66 questions about the Holocaust. I asked you what, if anything, you disputed, and asked you to back your claims with evidence. You didn't do that.

We all have limited time, kageki. This subject is vast. I'm sure you realize that. You could spend the rest of your life bringing up anomalies you perceive in the historical record and demanding that they be debunked – work that has no doubt been done by others, but that you aren't interested in finding on your own.

Can we agree that the main issue here is whether the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews (and others)? If so, then we've got a starting point.

Let's take this one step at a time. kageki, is there any evidence that would convince you that the Nazis systematically killed millions of Jews?

Yes or no?
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Yes if they exist. I don't even see the point of your question.

Happy?
 
kageki said:
Yes... after 60 years. What took him so long?
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did you read it. it tells you he spoke earlier about it but not until now did he feel the need to speak out again

he did it now because of people like you who are ignorant and uninformed and spread lies about the holocaust

are you calling this man a liar?
 
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