Why Can't They Figure it Out?

[Earthborn]

If I get more time, I'll post some detail: but, the flynn effect is in crisis

Please do so, and please explain what you mean with "the Flynn effect is in crisis".

My opinion would be irrelevant were it not based on what the science says. The consensus is that 0-25% of IQ is caused by the environment (closer to 25 when the kid is young, closer to zero as that same kid grows older, albeit in the same environment!). For genes, it's between 50-75%.

You like to say things like that a lot. But you never seem to bother to explain how anyone could come up with such figures, or who did. Please do so.

I'm not up on this stuff, but you seem to be. I'm curious (and I don't know where you sit on the nature vs. nurture argument): those who say IQ is all or mostly "environment" seem to be saying that everything about us from hair and eye color to whether we will be an alky or die of colon cancer is largely hardwired into us genetically...everything BUT IQ?

How can this be?

A good biologist would say that nothing is hardwired genetically, but that all of an organism's phenotype is the result of interaction between the genes and environment.

 

[bpesta22]

Please do so, and please explain what you mean with "the Flynn effect is in crisis".

You like to say things like that a lot. But you never seem to bother to explain how anyone could come up with such figures, or who did. Please do so.

A good biologist would say that nothing is hardwired genetically, but that all of an organism's phenotype is the result of interaction between the genes and environment.

Ok, but first tell me who I can't cite because all here will discredit them w/o looking at what they read since everyone knows they are racist?

 

[bpesta22]

Secular declines in cognitive test scores: A reversal of the Flynn Effect

Thomas W. Teasdalea, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author and David R. Owenb
aDepartment of Psychology, University of Copenhagen, Øster Farimagsgade 5, 1353 Copenhagen K, Denmark
bDepartment of Psychology, Brooklyn College, City University of New York, United States
Received 13 June 2006; revised 30 January 2007; accepted 30 January 2007. Available online 2 March 2007.



Abstract

Scores on cognitive tests have been very widely reported to have increased through the decades of the last century, a generational phenomenon termed the ‘Flynn Effect’ since it was most comprehensively documented by James Flynn in the 1980's. There has, however, been very little evidence concerning any continuity of the effect specifically into the present century. We here report data from a population, namely young adult males in Denmark, showing that whereas there were modest increases between 1988 and 1998 in scores on a battery of four cognitive tests–these constituting a diminishing continuation of a trend documented back to the late 1950's–scores on all four tests declined between 1998 and 2003/2004. For two of the tests, levels fell to below those of 1988. Across all tests, the decrease in the 5/6 year period corresponds to approximately 1.5 IQ points, very close to the net gain between 1988 and 1998. The declines between 1998 and 2003/4 appeared amongst both men pursuing higher academic education and those not doing so.


The end of the Flynn effect?

A study of secular trends in mean intelligence test scores of Norwegian conscripts during half a century

Jon Martin Sundeta, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author, Dag G. Barlaugb and Tore M. Torjussenb
aInstitute of Psychology, University of Oslo, P.O. Box 1094, Blindern N-317 Oslo, Norway
bPsychological Services, Norwegian Armed Forces, Norway
Received 22 October 2003; revised 5 April 2004; accepted 8 June 2004. Available online 18 August 2004.



Abstract

The present paper reports secular trends in the mean scores of a language, mathematics, and a Raven-like test together with a combined general ability (GA) score among Norwegian (male) conscripts tested from the mid 1950s to 2002 (birth cohorts ≈1935–1984). Secular gains in standing height (indicating improved nutrition and health care) were also investigated. Substantial gains in GA were apparent from the mid 1950s (test years) to the end 1960s–early 1970s, followed by a decreasing gain rate and a complete stop from the mid 1990s. The gains seemed to be mainly caused by decreasing prevalence of low scorers. From the early 1970s, the secular gains in GA were almost exclusively driven by gains on the Raven-like test. However, even the means on this particular test stopped to increase after the mid to late 1990s. It is concluded that the Flynn effect may have come to an end in Norway. Height gains were strongly correlated with intelligence gains until the cessation of height gains in the conscript cohorts towards the end of the 1980s. Contrary to the intelligence gains, the height gains (conscript cohorts 1969–2002) were most pronounced in the upper half of the distribution. Evidence indicating decreasing intercorrelations between tests is reported.


EJ676837
Title: The Secular Rise in IQs: In Estonia, the Flynn Effect Is Not a Jensen Effect.
Authors: Must, Olev; Must, Aasa; Raudik, Vilve
Descriptors: Adolescents; Foreign Countries; Intelligence Quotient; Intelligence Tests; Secondary Education; Secondary School Students
Source: Intelligence, v31 n5 p461-71 2003
Peer-Reviewed: N/A
Publisher: N/A
Publication Date: 2003-00-00
Pages: N/A
Pub Types: Journal Articles; Reports - Research
Abstract: Investigated the secular rise in IQ scores over 60 years in 12-to-14-year-old Estonian students using data from the 1930s for 307 students and data from 1997-1998 for 381 students. Results indicate that the secular rise is not occurring on the "g" factor. (SLD)
Abstractor: N/A
Reference Count: N/A

 

[bpesta22]

Dozens of twin, adoption, and family studies have confirmed the high heri-
tability of intellectual and behavioral traits, and even reaction time tasks, within
a race (Bouchard, 1996; Bouchard &Loehlin, 2001; Deary, 2000; Plomin et al.,
2001). Most of these estimates have been calculated on White samples. One study
of 543 pairs of identical and 134 pairs of nonidentical 12-year-old Japanese twins
248
RUSHTON AND JENSEN
Page 15

in Japan reported a substantial heritability of 0.58 for IQ (Lynn &Hattori, 1990).
The hereditarian model views race differences simply as aggregated individual
differences of this sort.



Also relevant to the question of the mean Black–White group differences are
the changes in heritability that occur with increases in age (see Plomin et al.,
2001). The average correlation of IQ between full siblings reared together reaches
.49 in adulthood. The correlation in IQ for siblings reared apart as children is .24,
which increases to .49 in adulthood. This shows that siblings grow more similar
to each other as they age. In genetically unrelated people reared together, such as
adopted children, the correlation for IQ is .25 in childhood but decreases to .01 in
adulthood (McGue et al., 1993). This shows, conversely, that unrelated people
reared together grow less similar over time. Between childhood and adulthood the
influence of the shared home environment on IQ decreases, whereas the effect of
genetic similarity increases.
The diminishing or even vanishing effect of differences due to the shared
home environment can best be understood in terms of three components of
gene–environment correlation and the change in their relative importance during
development (Plomin et al., 1977; Plomin et al., 2001). The passive component of
the gene–environment correlation reflects all those things that happen to the
phenotype, independent of its own characteristics. For example, children of
academically oriented parents may inherit genes for academic ability and also be
exposed (through no effort of their own) to stimulating intellectual environments.
The reactive component of gene–environment correlation results from the reac-
tion of others to the expression of genetically based abilities, as when children
with an unusual curiosity about science are given chemistry sets. The active
component of the gene–environment correlation results from children actively
seeking experiences compatible with their genotypes, for example, going to
science fairs rather than sports events or music concerts. From early childhood to
late adolescence the predominant component of the gene–environment covariance
gradually shifts from passive to reactive to active. The child’s enlarging world is
like a cafeteria in which choices become increasingly biased by genetic factors
(Scarr, 1996; Scarr &McCartney, 1983). As individuals mature they seek out and
even create their own experiential environment.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I, too, am curious. If our universities are offering such shoddy education, then why are so many foreign (especially Asian) students coming to the US for college educations?

Is there any evidence for this alleged grade inflation at the University level?

Actually, our science, engineering, law and medical schools continue to offer exemplary educations.

It's in the liberal arts and "soft" sciences where it's really fallen apart. Not that anyone with half a brain would bother getting a degree in any of these these days.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

Ok, but first tell me who I can't cite because all here will discredit them w/o looking at what they read since everyone knows they are racist?

LOL!

I asked the same question about "TOOLS OF BIG OIL!!!" to whom I was not allowed to refer in discussion about the religion of Global Warming...got the same answer: crickets.

But let me help: anyone who in any way questions whether the very real differences between culture and even the physical differences between humans with varying heritages have any impact on what we are and what we do.

For example: if you were to reference a book about American basketball players that noted that black players tend to be taller on average than Asian players, this would make both you and the writer (not that you'll find anything like that published anywhere) a.... RAAAACCCCIIIISTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

Two quick points:

Someone on this thread is a racist and a bigot, although I can't name names.

That same person who must remain nameless doesn't have a single clue about education in America.

Really?

Who?

The second is no biggie..most teachers know nothing about education in America or anywhere else.

But the first is probably a violation of the TOS in here. Since you seem pretty certain, I'd suggest contacting the mods, presenting your case for this with some quotes from this person's posts clearly demonstrating their racism.

This sort of forum really is no place for racists.

Tokie

 

[LostAngeles]

LOL!

I asked the same question about "TOOLS OF BIG OIL!!!" to whom I was not allowed to refer in discussion about the religion of Global Warming...got the same answer: crickets.

But let me help: anyone who in any way questions whether the very real differences between culture and even the physical differences between humans with varying heritages have any impact on what we are and what we do.

For example: if you were to reference a book about American basketball players that noted that black players tend to be taller on average than Asian players, this would make both you and the writer (not that you'll find anything like that published anywhere) a.... RAAAACCCCIIIISTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!

Tokie

If anyone would like to see how well Tokie responded to requests for evidence and what really happened:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92715

 

[Lonewulf]

Actually, our science, engineering, law and medical schools continue to offer exemplary educations.

It's in the liberal arts and "soft" sciences where it's really fallen apart. Not that anyone with half a brain would bother getting a degree in any of these these days.

Tokie

I was one semester away from getting an associates in Liberal Arts in Del Mar College, before transferring to Heidelberg University in Germany.

Few comments.

1) Liberal Arts often involve classes you would otherwise have to take with any type of degree.
2) Can you please name me any courses offered by Liberal Arts that are useless?

Here's a list of the classes I took:

--Humanities
--Regional Geography
--American History 1301 (first recorded accounts up until the 1800's, I believe)
--American History 1302 (1800's to modern day)
--Sociology
--College Algebra and various other mathematics courses
--American Government 1301
--Introduction to Astronomy
--Introduction to Philosophy

At least, those are the courses I can remember. I'd have to look at my transcripts to list them all out.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Well now, this makes absolutely no sense. You said:

How does that turn into me being racist and translating, "Hispanic," into, "Illegal Alien?" How did you assume that I identify people according to the color of their skin by my response of:

In fact, how, from that response, do you know anything of how I identify people?

Or my politics?

You know, the funny thing is, since I moved here, I've had the same problem as your neighbor.

And I'm not even Hispanic.

It's quite simple in context (and easily taken out of context, which is simply another Playbook tactic).

Today, in the media, on the univ. campus, and anywhere else where the far-left holds sway, there is no such thing as an "illegal alien." In fact, you won't find that term in common use in most US newspapers nor will you find it in use on most forms of electronic news (now you'll run out and get a quip from O'Reilly or Savage, or some Wash Post commentary using it, because like most libs, you have no understanding of the distinction between "news" and "opinion" in the press...so be it). The word has clearly gone out that purveyors of "news" are to use the term "Hispanic" in place of "illegal alien of Latin origins."

For at least the past three decades, the term "Hispanic" has been used in the US to refer to those of Latin American and Mexican heritage who live here. This was the term that won out over some others (Chicano Latino, for example) as this group of Americans, led by liberals, attempted to seperate itself from "WASP" America and claim a seperate identify from other "racial" and ethnic minorities.

Today, it is used nearly exclusively to lump everyone of Mex/Lat. Amer. heritage, whether thier ancestors got here 500 years ago, or just crossed the border stuffed into an Econoline with 36 other "Hispanics."

If I were a Hispanic American, this would really piss me off. It does my one neighbor. The other seems to just shrug it off.

Yes, but my neighbor IS Hispanic and it apparently angers him that these illegals not only expect him to speak a foreign language, but look down their noses at him because he does not.

I hope this has cleared things up for you. Now, go back to reading your People's Daily.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

I was one semester away from getting an associates in Liberal Arts in Del Mar College, before transferring to Heidelberg University in Germany.

Few comments.

1) Liberal Arts often involve classes you would otherwise have to take with any type of degree.
2) Can you please name me any courses offered by Liberal Arts that are useless?

Here's a list of the classes I took:

--Humanities
--Regional Geography
--American History 1301 (first recorded accounts up until the 1800's, I believe)
--American History 1302 (1800's to modern day)
--Sociology
--College Algebra and various other mathematics courses
--American Government 1301
--Introduction to Astronomy
--Introduction to Philosophy

At least, those are the courses I can remember. I'd have to look at my transcripts to list them all out.

You are misunderstanding what I said, or I was not clear:

A good, solid background in all the humanities is a good idea for anyone and courses in the core of these should continue to be required by any good college.

A DEGREE in the liberal arts or "soft" sciences, today is virtually valueless in the American economy is what I am saying.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

If anyone would like to see how well Tokie responded to requests for evidence and what really happened:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92715

"Dr." Kitten put me on ignore after I started, quite rightly, putting those quotes there.

But not to fear: I've picked up another stalker!

Tokie

 

[LostAngeles]

It's quite simple in context (and easily taken out of context, which is simply another Playbook tactic).

Today, in the media, on the univ. campus, and anywhere else where the far-left holds sway, there is no such thing as an "illegal alien." In fact, you won't find that term in common use in most US newspapers nor will you find it in use on most forms of electronic news (now you'll run out and get a quip from O'Reilly or Savage, or some Wash Post commentary using it, because like most libs, you have no understanding of the distinction between "news" and "opinion" in the press...so be it). The word has clearly gone out that purveyors of "news" are to use the term "Hispanic" in place of "illegal alien of Latin origins."

For at least the past three decades, the term "Hispanic" has been used in the US to refer to those of Latin American and Mexican heritage who live here. This was the term that won out over some others (Chicano Latino, for example) as this group of Americans, led by liberals, attempted to seperate itself from "WASP" America and claim a seperate identify from other "racial" and ethnic minorities.

Today, it is used nearly exclusively to lump everyone of Mex/Lat. Amer. heritage, whether thier ancestors got here 500 years ago, or just crossed the border stuffed into an Econoline with 36 other "Hispanics."

If I were a Hispanic American, this would really piss me off. It does my one neighbor. The other seems to just shrug it off.

Yes, but my neighbor IS Hispanic and it apparently angers him that these illegals not only expect him to speak a foreign language, but look down their noses at him because he does not.

I hope this has cleared things up for you. Now, go back to reading your People's Daily.

Tokie

That doesn't explain how I'm apparently the racist here.

Also, if the immigrants are coming from Latin American countries, like the ancestors of the Hispanics already here, how are the immigrants not also Hispanic? Why does it matter when the ancestors got here when the term refers to the country of the person's ancestors.

BTW: Never even seen or heard of People's Daily.

 

[Lonewulf]

You are misunderstanding what I said, or I was not clear:

A good, solid background in all the humanities is a good idea for anyone and courses in the core of these should continue to be required by any good college.

A DEGREE in the liberal arts or "soft" sciences, today is virtually valueless in the American economy is what I am saying.

Tokie

I almost got my Associates. I'm not entirely sure you can get a Bachelor's in Liberal Arts, and I really doubt that they have a Master's or Ph.D.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I almost got my Associates. I'm not entirely sure you can get a Bachelor's in Liberal Arts, and I really doubt that they have a Master's or Ph.D.

Hmmm...I'm not sure now, whether I am unclear or you are obtuse.

I did not say a degree in Liberal Arts.

At least I hope I did not. I said a degree in ONE OF THE liberal arts: English, History, etc.

Is this really that hard to understand?

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

That doesn't explain how I'm apparently the racist here.

Also, if the immigrants are coming from Latin American countries, like the ancestors of the Hispanics already here, how are the immigrants not also Hispanic? Why does it matter when the ancestors got here when the term refers to the country of the person's ancestors.

BTW: Never even seen or heard of People's Daily.

Your parsing of words aside, as I explained (or thought I did) the media (a pervasive force in America) is no longer making the distinction between those here illegally, and those who are legal residents or citizens of this country and who are also "Hispanic." It is now a catchall phrase replacing the cumbersome "undocumented workers" and the more accurate "illegal alien."

You seem relatively bright LA...why is this so hard for you to "get"? Do you simply not believe that the "news" media play with language, their stock in trade, after all, to slant the news in the direction they like?

Tokie

 

[Lonewulf]

Hmmm...I'm not sure now, whether I am unclear or you are obtuse.

I did not say a degree in Liberal Arts.

At least I hope I did not. I said a degree in ONE OF THE liberal arts: English, History, etc.

Is this really that hard to understand?

Apparently, you really were pretty unclear. Glad that's cleared up, though.

History and English may not have a wealth of jobs available once you get the degree, but that does not make those fields useless or undesirable. I would rather not live in a society with no extensive study of history or language.

For instance, an english major might have made your point far more clearly and concisely, and saved you the effort of having to repeat it.

 

[LostAngeles]

Your parsing of words aside, as I explained (or thought I did) the media (a pervasive force in America) is no longer making the distinction between those here illegally, and those who are legal residents or citizens of this country and who are also "Hispanic." It is now a catchall phrase replacing the cumbersome "undocumented workers" and the more accurate "illegal alien."

You seem relatively bright LA...why is this so hard for you to "get"? Do you simply not believe that the "news" media play with language, their stock in trade, after all, to slant the news in the direction they like?

Tokie

I just don't see any evidence for what you claim. I still hear, "undocumented," which is fine since there are many, many undocumented Chinese here also (to name another group).

Much like I don't see how it makes me the apparent racist here.

Keep trying.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I just don't see any evidence for what you claim. I still hear, "undocumented," which is fine since there are many, many undocumented Chinese here also (to name another group).

Much like I don't see how it makes me the apparent racist here.

Keep trying.

Of course you still here it, but not for long. It's being replaced by "Hispanic" and when American talk about the illegal alien problem, it's not Chinese illegals who come here, blend in and eventually become Americans.

It's the other kind. Do you know where, during the last presidential election in Mexico the largest election HQ was located?

Care to guess?

Tokie

 

[LostAngeles]

Of course you still here it, but not for long. It's being replaced by "Hispanic" and when American talk about the illegal alien problem, it's not Chinese illegals who come here, blend in and eventually become Americans.

It's the other kind. Do you know where, during the last presidential election in Mexico the largest election HQ was located?

Care to guess?

Tokie

Care to provide evidence (links to news stories will more than suffice) or explain your earlier insinuations of racism?