ZEITGEIST, The Movie

T.A.M. said:
you just said it doesn't make any difference who you vote for, so your "implementing" is kind of useless.

You still havent answered me. If the Income tax is removed, what will replace it in terms of paying for the interest and/or principle on the debt to the Fed?

TAM:)
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Forget the debt. Whats going to pay For infrastructure? for law enforcement? for social services? for protecting our borders? army? navy? coast guard? marines? to write and pass laws? public schools? Public utilities? look around and estimate how many months you would have to work out of a year to provide the above. I think we are getting a bargain! And if all debt is slavery.. Than what about the equity resulting from property acquired through a mortgage? what about business equipment? the equity gained far offsets the debt or it wouldn't be worthwhile now would it?
 
Drudgewire said:
So do advertisers, but Burger King isn't part of any great conspiracy beyond profitting by providing a service that people are willing to pay for.

And 10 years ago I was RIGHT where you are now, which is why I truly pray you take it to heart when I say "even if you don't realize it, you're coming off as anti-semetic there without using the word 'Jew.'" The buzzwords you're using ("international bankers," "media") are nothing but sheep's clothing for racists who don't want to be looked at as racist.
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No, Burger King probably isnt part of a conspiracy, neither are most corporations who are simply participating in common capitalism. But when you look at what kids watch like MTV, VH1, BET, NICKELODIAN, and what they listen to "Big balla this big balla that" they are constantly bombarded with negative messages. Messages that will and usually do get you into a lifestyle you cant afford.

And let me just say for the record I am not an anti-semite. I in know way meant to imply any prejudice. There are more than just Jewish people in the media and in the baking system.
 
Ok, so Warl, your problem is not with Income Tax, but where and how it is spent. If it were being used to fund new roads, healthcare, and social services, you would be ok with it???

TAM:)
 
A W Smith said:
Forget the debt. Whats going to pay For infrastructure? for law enforcement? for social services? for protecting our borders? army? navy? coast guard? marines? to write and pass laws? public schools? Public utilities? look around and estimate how many months you would have to work out of a year to provide the above. I think we are getting a bargain! And if all debt is slavery.. Than what about the equity resulting from property acquired through a mortgage? what about business equipment? the equity gained far offsets the debt or it wouldn't be worthwhile now would it?
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Warl claims Income Tax does not pay for ANY of those. Apparently taxes on goods and services pays for those things.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
So you think that a system that was used from 100-200 years ago is going to work with the current state of the USA???

TAM:)
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No...good lord. Dont you see what I am saying??? GOD! You people have thick skulls. I am saying our system of government today is all messed up! The current state of the USA needs to be changed! Our founding father's fought against things that have been problematic all throughout human history. It was just as relevant back then that as it is today!
 
T.A.M. said:
Ok, so Warl, your problem is not with Income Tax, but where and how it is spent. If it were being used to fund new roads, healthcare, and social services, you would be ok with it???

TAM:)
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Possibly. If I knew that money was going to something useful I might be ok with it. The key word there was MIGHT. I think I should be able to do with my money what I want. I am very lassie fair if you will. I am against socialism.
 
warlexz53 said:
But if you look at how much debt the average american is in it is scary. When you get a loan for a house, you dont own that house the bank does. Just like your car or something else you put on credit. Debt is slavery.
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Well, the answer there is pretty simple, it seems to me: don't put yourself into debt if you can possibly avoid it.

Much of the debt people have is entirely of their own choice.

Look at credit cards - how many folks pay interest on their balances because they don't pay them off? That's debt which is entirely voluntary. I've had credit cards for twenty years now and I have yet to pay a penny of interest on them because I always pay off my balance in full at the end of the month. If I can't afford to pay that bill at the end of the month, then I know I can't afford to purchase the item, whether it be by credit card or any other way.
 
warlexz53 said:
Possibly. If I knew that money was going to something useful I might be ok with it. The key word there was MIGHT. I think I should be able to do with my money what I want. I am very lassie fair if you will. I am against socialism.
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why? You don't get to decide what the goods taxes go to provide for. The goods you buy with your money. What about services taxes? you don;t get to decide what they are spent on, and you pay those with your money.

You think because they take it out of your INCOME, rather than off your magazine purchase, or your restaurant fee, that they are dictating to you what your money is spent on any more so?

TAM:)
 
Corsair 115 said:
Well, the answer there is pretty simple, it seems to me: don't put yourself into debt if you can possibly avoid it.

Much of the debt people have is entirely of their own choice.

Look at credit cards - how many folks pay interest on their balances because they don't pay them off? That's debt which is entirely voluntary. I've had credit cards for twenty years now and I have yet to pay a penny of interest on them because I always pay off my balance in full at the end of the month. If I can't afford to pay that bill at the end of the month, then I know I can't afford to purchase the item, whether it be by credit card or any other way.
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I agree with what you are saying, but you are in the minority in this country.
 
T.A.M. said:
why? You don't get to decide what the goods taxes go to provide for. The goods you buy with your money. What about services taxes? you don;t get to decide what they are spent on, and you pay those with your money.

You think because they take it out of your INCOME, rather than off your magazine purchase, or your restaurant fee, that they are dictating to you what your money is spent on any more so?

TAM:)
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I didnt understand your first paragraph.

The people that decide what our tax money should be spent on are elected officials. Most of the services we see come from state taxes and are provided by the state. The state usually does a pretty good job of using our tax money wisely. Not all the time, but compared to the Fed they do a good job. The states do not have PRIVATE central banks they have to answer to, so they can spend the money on stuff we need. The president is the Federal Reserves bitch, so all the money he gets from us is used how they see fit. Again read the Grace Commision report. It is very eye opening.
 
A W Smith said:
Forget the debt. Whats going to pay For infrastructure? for law enforcement? for social services? for protecting our borders? army? navy? coast guard? marines? to write and pass laws? public schools? Public utilities? look around and estimate how many months you would have to work out of a year to provide the above. I think we are getting a bargain! And if all debt is slavery.. Than what about the equity resulting from property acquired through a mortgage? what about business equipment? the equity gained far offsets the debt or it wouldn't be worthwhile now would it?
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Read the Grace commision report. What you think your income tax pays for is not what it pays for. Much of what we spend on the military comes from corparate taxes from profits. Our roads come from the gas tax, and so on.
 
warlexz53, I'm confused. I'm being honest, not a smartass. If the government is in debt, and we're not paying off the debt, slashing income to the federal government is going to solve that, how? That would be like me paying off my credit cards by taking a cut in pay, wouldn't it?
 
JimBenArm said:
warlexz53, I'm confused. I'm being honest, not a smartass. If the government is in debt, and we're not paying off the debt, slashing income to the federal government is going to solve that, how? That would be like me paying off my credit cards by taking a cut in pay, wouldn't it?
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Well there are plenty of ways to pay off the debt. I'm not an expert, but there are some obvious things we can do. One, we need to stop borrowing so much. This war in the middle east is just stupidly expensive, and that is just one example of how we over extend ourselves. Two, think of all the money you would have if you didnt have to pay income tax...we're talking about trillions of dollars here collectively. If that money went into the market it would boost this economy like nothing else. Taxes on profits from corparations could easily start to make a dent in the debt if we wanted it to. But again, we have to stop borrowing so much, which means smaller government. People need to take more personal responsibilty and not rely on the government so much, this is another huge part of the problem. We are all soverign people. God gave us independence, big government and big brother stuff goes against that.
 
A W Smith said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18098378
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I read that article around tax time. Its nice that you dug it up for me. This guy doesnt site any of his sources or say how he got his information. I am weary of a lot this stuff because there are a lot of different taxes that go into the stuff he says the income tax pays for. The Grace Commision report was way more extensive than this guys 2 page article and way more detailed.
 
warlexz53 said:
And let me just say for the record I am not an anti-semite. I in know way meant to imply any prejudice. There are more than just Jewish people in the media and in the baking system.
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I know you aren't and I know you weren't suggesting otherwise. Unfortuantely, just like you can't trace 9/11 conspiracies to their reasonable conclusion without complicity by lots of honorable people, you can't bounce around "international bankers" and "the media" negatively in the same conversation without it being taken as racially motivated.

Of course anyone who takes a second to see who the bankers and who is in charge of media companies will understand no one group of people has any real monopoly on anything... but the racists are the ones who chose to lump them this way.
 
warlexz53 said:
I dont appreciate you telling me what happened to my dad when you dont have a clue what the hell happened. Typical of this group it seems. There are a lot of self-righteous people here. The tax truth movement mostly focuses on the income tax. Before you guys start getting link crazy, I'll save you the trouble.

I dont need you to post links directing me to proof that the law exists and that the 16th ammendment was actually ratified. I have seen the law and I know that it exists and I've seen the report done by Secretary Knox. There are better arguments to use.

Personally I believe that the founding fathers would not have wanted an income tax on our wages. We work 4 months out of the year to pay our governemnt (or so we think). That is wrong to me. The reason I think the income tax should be removed and the federal reserve system either abolished or completely redone is because 1.) The Fed is too private, for the most part it does not answer to anybody but itself. 2.) The Grace Commision found that almost all of our income tax goes to pay interest on what the government borrows from the Fed. You can find the entire report here

h.t.t.p://w.w.w.freecanadian.net/articles/grace.html (sorry still cant post links yet)

Why do we need an income tax? It is slavery and it makes these bankers more powerful. Of all the things in the Zeitgeist movie, I think this was the most credible and quite scary. That and the fact that Bush's grandad supported the Nazi's in a big way. Also that Standard Oil gave additives to the Nazi's. That is just messed up.
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The movie was full of bs and so is your post. Drop out and stop paying taxes, you are not paying attention.
 
Re: remarks of how many new truthers are out there -- we are within a month of the anniversary. This is probably just a convenient way to ramp up to Two Minute Hate status.

Re: bank owning a house bought on a mortgage --- OMG! You are KIDDING me. When someone goes to get a loan, the money they borrow isn't actually theirs??? And the house bought with that money isn't technically theirs either??? And so when they marched me down with a gun to my head and made me get a mortgage, they were enslaving me???

Wait. They didn't do that. :rolleyes:

Personally I believe that the founding fathers would not have wanted an income tax on our wages. We work 4 months out of the year to pay our governemnt (or so we think). That is wrong to me. The reason I think the income tax should be removed and the federal reserve system either abolished or completely redone is because 1.) The Fed is too private, for the most part it does not answer to anybody but itself. 2.) The Grace Commision found that almost all of our income tax goes to pay interest on what the government borrows from the Fed. You can find the entire report here

h.t.t.p://w.w.w.freecanadian.net/articles/grace.html (sorry still cant post links yet)

Why do we need an income tax? It is slavery and it makes these bankers more powerful. Of all the things in the Zeitgeist movie, I think this was the most credible and quite scary. That and the fact that Bush's grandad supported the Nazi's in a big way. Also that Standard Oil gave additives to the Nazi's. That is just messed up.
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What the founding fathers would have wanted doesn't matter anymore. The Constitution was changed. Income tax is legal now, and must be paid. Now if you want to argue that we should change it back, that's an adult conversation. Take care that you don't support your position with things from Zeitgeist... I mean, from From Freedom to Fascism, which is where the plagiarizing editor of Zeitgeist purloined the last third of his brainwashing extravaganza.
 
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beachnut said:
The movie was full of bs and so is your post. Drop out and stop paying taxes, you are not paying attention.
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One thing that really bothers me about forums like this is that people like you come in here and leave one liners like this or that is bs and then end with a snide remark. Seriously, knock it off. You are the one not paying attention.
 
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