ZEITGEIST, The Movie

Ultramedia said:
Then I take it the existence of God is a fact since you say so and
your assertion that the movie is BS is yet another fact?
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that isn't what he said. Failed reading comprehension, I see. There is no evidence to a "God", its all based in faith.

Much like the entire 911 Liar movement.
 
Ultramedia said:
Then I take it the existence of God is a fact since you say so and
your assertion that the movie is BS is yet another fact?

Predicated on what? I suggest that was also your opinion which again VARIES from others and that my freinds

IS A FACT

- Ultra
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Say what? Where did I say anything about God? And what movie did I say was BS, again? I sure don't remember. Oh, yeah, I didn't.
So again, you've confused your opinion with fact, and gotten it all wrong. Please try again.
 
Drudgewire said:
Maybe if you'd extend that same courtesy to our Government when looking for "the truth," you'd have less trouble overlooking the real facts and more trouble digesting supposition, innuendo, and distortions. ;)
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Spare me your mundane platitudes about supposition and innuendo. I haven't distorted a damn thing I am merely posting what I think and my experience where if I were to compare it to yours, it wouldn't amount to a pimple on my intellectual ass. If you want to dress up your knowledge of covert ops with my real experience, please do. Matching wits with you on that subject would be like boxing a paraplegic.

Science? Evidence as fact established by hypothesis and rests as a theory?

The Law Of Gravity is Law because it is past being a theory

Nist's Law?

That isn't fact son

It's conjecture

- Ultra

Please bear in mind our rules on civility.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady
 
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Pardalis said:
What are paint chips?
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Basically, it's peeling paint. Leaded paint causes developmental problems in children who eat the paint chips (lead poisining).
It's a round-about way of saying you're retarded.
 
Ultramedia said:
Are you serious? PROVING anything here seems to be an exercise in futility. I have seen for months now the same cliques say the same thing over and over in response to anything ever said here.

I would have better luck proving a thing if we all agreed on the same stable datum. The fact is we don't. Debunking CT's one always points to the NISTIAN BIBLE and Ill no more believe that then an atheist would use the Bible as his stable datum.

There are things in the movie anyone can disagree with it isn't perfect, has strange music blah blah blah Get Over it. Someone doesn't agree with the NIST Report they are customarily advised to see this link that link as if reading that information a second third time is going to make any more sense then it did the first time we disagree with it.

Then the same old accusation about NOT reading all of it persists. This entire forum is so saturated with it's traditional patterns and protocols I could have predicted most of your response verbatim because they are always the same.

Rather then test your skills of debate or argue with a terminally self righteous group of know-it-all in one clique or the other, Ill express myself in the way I want following MY OWN protocol whether you like it or not whether you agree or not.

Ill direct you to the Jay Howard vs R. Makey discussion where again,, a lot of time and typing done by two obviously very intelligent people. It would have been refreshing to see if once a dialogue like that concluded in the transformation of ones fixed opinions to those of his "opponent" .

You see it as a game with no middle ground someone wins someone loses but neither one has learned a damn thing more then they were willing to accept at the start. Since we have these discussions with the allies of our cliques watching, accepting anything less then what you started with results in more of the same.

It begins to degrade into a meticulously executed act of splitting hairs in the name of "straw man" or the ever popular and even more juvenile name calling use of the word "twoofer".

example: R. Makey who worked very hard to educate us the virtues of the NIST report as his stable datum was why I could have predicted his giving up on Jay Howard. Obviously R. Makey has a superior knowledge of engineering and much education which I assume was the reason he saw himself as the "teacher" and Howard as the unwilling student. The questions Jay had that were never addressed went unanswered by using the same tactics traditionally used here. Accusations that he didn't understand the report and claims that his questions were answered where it never occurred to him that perhaps it wasn't.

No one likes repeating themselves and as much as I was intrigued with that discussion, I sure didn't see it either.

It wasn't R Makey's knowledge of the NIST report but the art of persuasion that was lacking skill. I admit I marveled at his intelligence but like him I won't ignore what I know about fighting a fire or my experience with steel's incredible ability to withstand a Jet crashing through steel compartments and NOT SOFTENING.

His comments about CT'rs come from the same prejudice that wouldn't allow him to listen hard enough to the very valid points Jay was making. Jay had doubt, reasonable doubt that was easy to see. He also has very impressive powers of persuasion. Another words if that doubt can influence me that doubt exists then those arguments he had also have possibilities which were more then sufficient for me to agree on.

Perhaps all that engineering education is too much to write off having invested so much time and money. It is the same reason my years and education fighting Jet Aircraft fires in an all steel environment aboard Aircraft Carriers won't allow me to buy the NIST report as anything more then JUST another THEORY and its proponents JUST another kind of CT'ist.

The science of fire and the many personalities it takes on when JP-5 is added is one thing but Jet fuel is Jet fuel. You can add anti icing, lubricity changes can alter it considerably.

Removing the postulate of explosives being used as part of that destruction is and always will be a moot subject.

The idea and the odds that BOTH those towers fell the way NIST theorizes is a hard pill for me to swallow. As for WTC7 heh I won't even go there.

Until I have seen something that makes more sense, then the NIST report is all we have got and I will always doubt it. Many of the same reasons Jay Howards questions went unanswered to his satisfaction only confirmed them for me.

He had a very impressive argument and one that brought much of my experience to mind. I write software these days but grew up the son of one of the chief investigators for the FBI, I served on board the USS Saratoga CV-60 Forrestal class carrier task-force 6th fleet. I was in a Division called the "Nucleus Fire Party" a mixed group of UDT S.E.A.L and firefighter team. I am a Card Carrying member of the NRA a past conservative republican turned what ever isn't in the two party system we have now.

I no more follow the so called loose change crowd as I do the debunkers, those debunking debunkers OR (in case) the debunkers debunking for debunction sake. I want solid Proof as much as anyone else. I have no preconceived notions about terrorist Muslims etc. I also know our Government is not above using such tragic events as pretext for wars whether the involvement directly or indirectly carried out.

I think wasting time dissecting posts looking for angles to attack your opponent while missing the point or central message is as dumb as dumb gets but that's just me. I think Zeitgeist was an interesting movie and as I said much of the historical issues it makes are in fact NOT THEORY NOT A REPORT but FACT. The spin they want to put on that history is and will continue to be up for debate. That debate I assume I would do no better then R Makey or Jay Howard in the conclusion of beta theory.

Not that I didn't learn something there or have nothing to contribute.

I simply don't have the time

- Ultramedia
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Gravity!!!
 
Ultramedia said:
I haven't distorted a damn thing I am merely posting what I think and my experience where if I were to compare it to yours, it wouldn't amount to a pimple on my intellectual ass.
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Yep, your experience compared to his doesn't amount to a pimple.

:pythonfoot:
 
Brainster said:
Yep, your experience compared to his doesn't amount to a pimple.

:pythonfoot:
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Bottom line, Ultra, I take you LESS seriously than the 15-year olds that usually spew the nonsense you are. You've never advanced one theory, you've only come in to attempt to prove your intellectual superiority over people that actually know what they're talking about.

And how do you do it? By debate? By factually disproving what is being tossed back at you? No, by regurgitating pithy nonsense that uses meaningless words to bring moral relativism to groups that flat-out lie and toss about half-hearted "evidence" with no support to those who seek to correct them with science and reason.

You're not an intellectual, you're a narcissist... and not a very good one. No wonder you have such a low opinion of debunkers... all you spout is bunk. You've brought nothing new to the table, only the same garbage we see here every day... except a little more long-winded.

-The Pimple :)
 
beachnut said:
9/11 truth and this movie are total BS. Your dad should pay his taxes, they can take your assets when you do not pay your taxes. Like tax fraud, 9/11 truth is fraud.
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I dont appreciate you telling me what happened to my dad when you dont have a clue what the hell happened. Typical of this group it seems. There are a lot of self-righteous people here. The tax truth movement mostly focuses on the income tax. Before you guys start getting link crazy, I'll save you the trouble.

I dont need you to post links directing me to proof that the law exists and that the 16th ammendment was actually ratified. I have seen the law and I know that it exists and I've seen the report done by Secretary Knox. There are better arguments to use.

Personally I believe that the founding fathers would not have wanted an income tax on our wages. We work 4 months out of the year to pay our governemnt (or so we think). That is wrong to me. The reason I think the income tax should be removed and the federal reserve system either abolished or completely redone is because 1.) The Fed is too private, for the most part it does not answer to anybody but itself. 2.) The Grace Commision found that almost all of our income tax goes to pay interest on what the government borrows from the Fed. You can find the entire report here

h.t.t.p://w.w.w.freecanadian.net/articles/grace.html (sorry still cant post links yet)

Why do we need an income tax? It is slavery and it makes these bankers more powerful. Of all the things in the Zeitgeist movie, I think this was the most credible and quite scary. That and the fact that Bush's grandad supported the Nazi's in a big way. Also that Standard Oil gave additives to the Nazi's. That is just messed up.
 
:rolleyes: the issue of why taxes are needed have been covered ad nauseum. You wouldn't be enjoying what you take for granted, if it weren't for the programs that are subsidized by the taxes collected.
 
warlexz53 said:
It is slavery and it makes these bankers more powerful. Of all the things in the Zeitgeist movie, I think this was the most credible and quite scary. That and the fact that Bush's grandad supported the Nazi's in a big way. Also that Standard Oil gave additives to the Nazi's. That is just messed up.
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Most of our grandfathers probably have views which horrify us, simply because they come from a different time. And SLAVERY?? Please take a trip out of this country one day and see just how free you really are.

That said, I don't take back a word of what I said about you earlier in this thread. You don't strike me as someone who's easily led, just someone who questions everything. Eventually that will mature into the right kind of skepticism, the kind that allows you to still question everything without giving equal weight to every side of every argument regardless of their validity. :)
 
Arus808 said:
:rolleyes: the issue of why taxes are needed have been covered ad nauseum. You wouldn't be enjoying what you take for granted, if it weren't for the programs that are subsidized by the taxes collected.
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You must have overlooked everything I wrote and especially the link I posted. Our income tax doesnt give us anything, so I really dont have anything to take for granted. The services we get from our government do not come from the income tax. They come from the gas tax, property tax, alcohol and tobacco tax, etc. I have no problem with these taxes, I have a problem with the income tax.
 
and if you took away income tax, how would the USA govt pay back the Fed? They would have to increase the other taxes, would they not?

TAM:)
 
Drudgewire said:
Most of our grandfathers probably have views which horrify us, simply because they come from a different time. And SLAVERY?? Please take a trip out of this country one day and see just how free you really are.

That said, I don't take back a word of what I said about you earlier in this thread. You don't strike me as someone who's easily led, just someone who questions everything. Eventually that will mature into the right kind of skepticism, the kind that allows you to still question everything without giving equal weight to every side of every argument regardless of their validity. :)
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Yes slavery. I know we are way better off here than in other countries. But if you look at how much debt the average american is in it is scary. When you get a loan for a house, you dont own that house the bank does. Just like your car or something else you put on credit. Debt is slavery.
 
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