The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Can you not understand, the simplest of simple facts- if there is an unprecedented threat of a spectacular, multiple attack on your country, you do something???
It has been explained to you many times that unless you have a list of all intelligence threats for years prior to 9/11 you have no basis to claim the ones you posted were "unprecedented". When will you be posting a complete list of all threats prior to 9/11, in order to show that such threats were "unprecedented"?
 
In point of fact the warnings were NOT unprecedented. There were many, many, MANY warnings prior to 9/11 that were similar and of which nothing came. Hence the reason for investigations into the credibility of the source and into the intelligence itself.

As an example; prior to the embassy bombings in Kenya, Tanzania, and Libya, there were numerous warnings from the IC about possible attacks against US interests abroad, but as with 9/11, they were vague and unspecified enough to make it nearly impossible to determine possible locations or targets. Looking back in hindsight we run into the same problem we have with 9/11; we see the warnings and say, "see, we should have beefed up security at embassies! It's clear now that they were talking about the embassies!" All the while forgetting that when the warnings were initially delivered we had no clue where possible targets might be.

Intelligence is and always will be a vague practice. In essence, an intel analyst is playing a giant guessing game. They're giving their best guess as to what will happen based on a series of factors and knowledge of the group or groups in question. It is not a perfect practice by a long shot; mistakes, sometimes costly ones, are made more often than most people care to admit, but at least it's better than doing nothing. It is notable that, whenever catastrophes like 9/11 occur, blame is immediately placed on the intelligence as if the intel agents should be omniscient and be able to explain exactly what will happen ahead of time, and that just isn't the case. President Bush and the rest of the government were working with vague intelligence that came at a volume only slightly higher than normal, and in response they requested more information in order to be able to make a more definitive action possible (i.e. the 70+ investigations undertaken by the FBI and other agencies). Given that the warnings we received (you know, the forty warnings that mjd says are so specific) contained NO actionable intelligence, rather than going off half-cocked, the government decided it would be better to search out more information. It's a decision faced EVERY TIME warnings come in, and not just by the government, but by the intelligence agencies and the military as well. Collectively they have to decide if it's worth it to take action right away or if it's better to wait for more information. Sometimes they're wrong, but more often they are right. It's just a shame that some of the times they're wrong is when tragedies like 9/11 occur, but they are only human; they are not gods.

And by the way, mjd, I dislike you acting as though those were the ONLY reports received the entire time; there are, at any given time, thousands of reports on various intelligence investigations circulating in the IC in my estimate, and while not all of those get up high enough to be inserted into the PDB, there were dozens of other reports that were in the PDB BESIDES those forty reports. The President receives the top fifteen or twenty, as I understand it (and I might be making a low estimate) reports his advisors feel are most important on a daily basis, and prior to 9/11, there were EIGHT MONTHS worth of PDBs in which those forty reports were scattered. Even taking my lowest estimate of fifteen reports per day for eight months, you still have around 3600 items that the President saw in his daily brief prior to 9/11. Explain to me, please, how those forty reports supposedly stood out over the other approximately 3560 reports he received that year prior to 9/11. Trust me when I say you can't.
 
MJD

After the posts in this thread about your friend Scott Forbes and his false or exagerrated claims regarding the power downs in the tower, it became apparent that you were claiming he was keeping very quiet about them because he had been warned by his company to put a sock in it or he would be fired.

You were quite specific in this and the fact that you would like it if we stopped sayiong we would contact his work or he would get in trouble. You said he has attended a few 911 meetings in the UK and posted on a few 911 boards but that is it.

What I want to know is how do you explain the fact I have just heard an interview he has done that was dated the 19 july??

He reiterates all his previous claims in some detail. Does this mean he has now decided to come forward with his claims and ignore the possible threat of repercussions from his company?

How do his claims, as they stand now, cross check with the fact that we now know there was power on floors in the tower that weekend?

Could you chase this up as it seems to make your claims look a bit suspect?

cheers
 

Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults

most employed people who I know who also have a life have no time to participate in phone polls and consider them a nuisance. It is conceivable that people with a political agenda will participate in an effort to give their agenda validity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics
Many people may not realize that the randomness of the sample is very important. In practice, many opinion polls are conducted by phone, which distorts the sample due in several ways, including exclusion of people who do not have phones, favoring people who have more than one phone, favoring people who are willing to participate in a phone survey over those who refuse, etc. Non-random sampling makes the estimated error unreliable
 

So you believe that "hiding something" with regards to the entirety of 9/11 implies "inside job?" Where did you get that particular interpretation?

Also, just as a technical aside, the MOE for the poll is +/-4%, so it's technically correct to say that 16% +/-4% (i.e.g 12 - 20 %) believe the Bush adminstration is hiding nothing about the 9/11 attacks, 49 - 57 % believe they are hiding something, 24 - 32 % believe they is mostly lying about what they knew, and 0 - 7 % are unsure. It doesn't say what the confidence level for the polling is, which is somewhat troubling.

All of which doesn't translate directly into "believe it was an inside job" or anything of the sort. Also, this is current as of October 2002, so you might want to consider getting more recent polling results.

Perhaps if some members of the Truth Movement could actually sponsor a scientific (e.g. as random as possible, unbiased sample) poll with unambiguous questions like "Do you believe that the Bush administration directly planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks using government agents? Yes/No" then you can make more definitive statements about how many people believe what... for whatever that's worth.
 
wrong answer. Try again

What a brilliant riposte!

The scope of internet media is miniscule compared to that of MSM. Hence why only 42% of the US know the most rudimentary fact about the most newsworthy and reported evnent of their lives- how many skyscrapers fell on 911.

I wouldn't call that rudimentary. The most rudimentary fact is that a terrorist attack fell the Trade Center on 2001/09/11.

1. They didnt have to shoot them down.

How do you stop them, then ? Ask them to pull over ?

Where do the people of these countries come into matters?

:rolleyes:

And, incidentally, if you are going to argue on the basis on social consensuses, all polls show that of those who know the facts about 911, the overwhelming amount agree with me, not you.

I think it's time you educate yourself as to how polls work, Mjd.

It is the rest, who are sheep.

Precisely as I said before. To you "sheep" means "disagrees with me".
 
What an unbelievably bad post. Read my reply above.

Boy oh boy.

That's because it's a response to a REALLY REALLY BAD post. And then your response is an even worse post. Hindsight is 20/20. Why weren't you raising these issues before 9/11? Oh right, YOU DIDN'T KNOW EITHER.

Perhaps you can tell us about all the future terrorist attacks that will happen so we can be ready now? Oh right, you don't know about them, just like everyone else. I guess it would only be fair to still fault you like you arr doing to others.

And you wanna know what? The biggest attack before 9/11 was unprecidented. And so was the one before that. And the one before that. Please stop using conjecture as facts.
 
So 52% of US know about 7 of which ~70% believe it merits investigation by the 911 Commission.

Of course. The question was leading.

World Trade Center Building 7 is the 47-story skyscraper that was not hit by any planes during the September 11th attacks, but still totally collapsed later the same day. This collapse was not investigated by the 9/11 Commission. Are you aware of this skyscraper's collapse, and if so do you believe that the Commission should have also investigated it? Or do you believe that the Commission was right to only investigate the collapse of the buildings which were directly hit by airplanes?

Most WOULD say it should.

This is just one 911 fact that is not known by the general public. The pattern would repeat itself many many times, with other instances

Twoofers. Always believing that they know more than everybody when they know less than most.
 
So you believe that "hiding something" with regards to the entirety of 9/11 implies "inside job?" Where did you get that particular interpretation?

Also, just as a technical aside, the MOE for the poll is +/-4%, so it's technically correct to say that 16% +/-4% (i.e.g 12 - 20 %) believe the Bush adminstration is hiding nothing about the 9/11 attacks, 49 - 57 % believe they are hiding something, 24 - 32 % believe they is mostly lying about what they knew, and 0 - 7 % are unsure. It doesn't say what the confidence level for the polling is, which is somewhat troubling.

Also, the poll was conducted just one month before the 2006 elections, not that that should bias anyone's responses. :rolleyes:
 
Also, the poll was conducted just one month before the 2006 elections, not that that should bias anyone's responses. :rolleyes:

Ah, I misread it as "October 2002," but this makes things even more subject to bias and suspect interpretation. The ambiguity of the poll question doesn't exactly help matters, either.

What, is this MOE at a 50% confidence level or something? *snork*
 
keep in mind he also thinks that the reason you hear no bombs going off in any building (especially 7) is because the cameras were too far or the outside noise drowned them all out.

Ignorance, or innocence?
 
Ah, I misread it as "October 2002," but this makes things even more subject to bias and suspect interpretation. The ambiguity of the poll question doesn't exactly help matters, either.

What, is this MOE at a 50% confidence level or something? *snork*

I always take comfort in knowing that 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
 
Can you not understand that when the report says they started unprecedented operations against AQ with the aid of 20 countries that this is not doing ZERO?

Will you admit the fact that they did in fact step up operations that summer?

You have had your ass handed to you in this thread and actively ignored posts like the dishonest person you really are
1. Which report states this?

2. What was the content of these operations. It doesnt matter if you are running after some chap in Dhaka, if when the FBI have Moussaoui handed to them by the French, the superiors prevent anyone from looking at his laptop even though agents are convinced he is about to fly a plane into the WTC, and recent intel suggests AQ are preparing to hijack planes and cause multiple, simultaneous attacks.

More to the point, it is common knowledge, understood and publicy stated by Clarke, Tenet and others, that the Bush admin didnt give a monkey's about the terror threat leading up to 911. This has been reported by all and sundry. If you are trying to argue against this, I dont think you are being very serious.
 

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