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Is It Possible There Is An Afterlife?

Oppressed said:
Edge,



If your soul can stop existing at the end of your life because God decides so, then your soul is not immortal.

Now, if you have an immortal soul and after you die God decides that your immortal soul will go to Heaven, Purgatory, Hell, back to Earth or somewhere else then you can still argue that the soul is immortal. But for a soul to be immortal it can not simply extinguish at the end of your life for any reason.

Now, you still did not answer my question.

Do you know these things because God directly spoke to you?
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No one gets to the father except through the son.
I have had enough shown to me to know and I have talked to some one, and I get answers, and I have been on the other side.


I tried that. I fell asleep. I certainly didn't experience anything like "soul travel". I've achieved what I believe to be the closest I have come to a meditative state once when I was studying t'ai chi, but I still didn't experience anything like what you describe.

Anything else?
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Yes that's the first thing that will happen and it will be a good sleep probably better than usual.
That's what happened to me.
The next time I tried I was surrounded by a florescent light and in great peace.
The third time I was out.
It will scare you the first time.
I didn't need to do it after the third time any more.



But once, when it happened by accident, I decided to see where the gates of heaven where, described by a person who had an N.D.E.; to see if it was true.
This took me out, way out I wanted to see how far I could go off the planet because of where she said it was..

Yes I have read her stuff, or some of it RandFan.
 
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You'll need more tools before you get to step three.
More knowledge of what's out there.
There's nothing concret about spirit Till you see.
It's not something you can hold and test.
 
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So say the shaman, "EVERYTHING has a soul"

Oppressed said:
Thoth108,

Does a cat have a soul? Does a Dolphin have a soul? Does a Chimpanzee or Bonobo have a soul?
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Yes. Our souls experience life times as cats, dolphins, chimpanzees and bonobos.:D

Oppressed said:
Do live Humans spontaneously die for no apparent reason because their soul decided to leave? Why do souls prefer to come right at the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg and begins a new life form growing?
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Souls enter bodies and exit quickly to "dip their feet in" so to speak. There are souls incarnating here that are from very different realities, and are just getting used to being here (and incarnating into a new form). And souls do not enter at the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg; I've been told it happens later. There needs to be a control room for the soul to experience the body from, which isn't formed until later.

Oppressed said:
Do dead Human bodies suddenly come back to life because the soul decided to come back? Why do souls prefer to leave when the body dies for explainable reasons??
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If the body is useable, I don't see why not. To answer the second question, there are no "unexplainable reasons" from the perspective of the soul. The soul leaves the body when it is the right time in that creatures existence.

Oppressed said:
If an immortal soul does exist, I’d say it was logical that there must be rules about when it can come and when it can go.
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There are rules about how it works. What do you want to know?


Oppressed said:
If we assume an immortal soul does exist, I think a logical conclusion is that the immortal soul will want to, be driven to, experience many of what we think of as mortal lives.
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Whatever voice in your head said this line to you before you wrote it down: REMEMBER IT. It is the voice of your soul in your head telling you what's up. The immortal soul is driven to experience many, many, many life times as various living things. The point of it all is experience. Think of God as being everything that exists, including you, all of your thoughts, all of your memories, all of your experiences. You have to experience infinity one life time at a time to take it all in from each perspective. We each are experiencing our turn as God experiencing a small part of his/her infinite creation.

That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.:rolleyes:
 
edge said:
No one gets to the father except through the son.
Proof, and the man written bible does not count.

Yes that's the first thing that will happen and it will be a good sleep probably better than usual.
That's what happened to me.
The next time I tried I was surrounded by a florescent light and in great peace.
The third time I was out.
It will scare you the first time.
I didn't need to do it after the third time any more.
It doesn't explain a thing.

But once, when it happened by accident, I decided to see where the gates of heaven where, described by a person who had an N.D.E.; to see if it was true.
This took me out, way out I wanted to see how far I could go off the planet because of where she said it was..
Again, It doesn't explain a thing.
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Paul

:) :) :)
 
Thoth108,

Your answers are more fun than Edge’s. I definately like the fact you allow for cats to have souls. In your idea of the Universe, can a living Human exist without a soul? Can different souls visit different bodies at different times?

Still, in general it seems like these posts have been falling into the pattern of:

“I believe in my religious after life through faith regardless of how illogical or un-provable my belief is.”

versus

“If you can’t prove it then it is not true.”

Since there is no real arguing with the religiously faithful, this is posed at the “If you can’t prove it then it is not true” group.


Can you see any logical possibility, even if very remote, that would allow us to have a life beyond this one which we are not consciously aware of?

For example, the Matrix syndrome. Though the idea of a virtual simulated reality goes way back before Matrix. Anyone familiar with the story “Simulacron-3” by Daniel F. Galouye published back in 1964?
 
lolurigeller said:
What the hell?

Dude that einstein sig does not go well with this post.
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It goes very well, if you understand the meaning.

The brain interpretation the world thru the senses, this is not the real world in that there are different wavelengths of light but no color, different wavelengths of vibrations in the air, but no sound etc. The problem becomes when people don’t understand this and start to see and hear etc things that their brain (which is them) makes out to be real. So people like thoth108 see things in their brain, so to them it must be real.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
God is in all of us and even if it's in your brain it's still God.
And if it is how do you know that their isn't a separation of the soul and God upon death?
There was a barrier on the other side as described by many others who were told to go back because it wasn't their time through OBE or NDE.
In my mind I wanted to see what was next and as hard as I tried some one else stopped me.
How could some one else stop me if it was my will?
What I saw up to that point was amazing.

THOH says,
So say the shaman, "EVERYTHING has a soul"
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I agree but God doesn't need us to be an animal to experience any thing he already has the animal for that and we only get one chance here.
If there weren’t evil disembodied spirits in-between universes I would say you're right. But that's the danger when you get out. This is the reason not to do soul travel and that's why I quit.
Two times I had the experience by accident after I quit, the first one proved that was true and the second time that God and the soul exists.
Over all it proves what we are told not to do.
 
More magical thinking edge, this so-called god can be anything you what it to be, and everyone's so-called god is what they what it to be. There are billions of people with different ideas of the so-called god, so what makes yours so right and theirs so wrong.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
More magical thinking edge, this so-called god can be anything you what it to be, and everyone's so-called god is what they what it to be. There are billions of people with different ideas of the so-called god, so what makes yours so right and theirs so wrong.

Paul

:) :) :)
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He has answered my questions to me. As far as he is willing.
Everybody else, I have no idea what he or she experience as far as answers they get.
Where they come from is important.
If there is nothing then who is it that gives us answers to those specific questions?
 
edge said:
He has answered my questions to me. As far as he is willing.
Everybody else, I have no idea what he or she experience as far as answers they get.
Where they come from is important.
If there is nothing then who is it that gives us answers to those specific questions?
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Oh, edge what answers and what questions, you do know that the voice inside your head is called You.

Paul

:) :) :)

And the asnwers just happen to be the ones you looking for too.
 
Edge,

Did you know that it is a proven fact the Human mind is capable of generating false experiences that can be indistinguishable from a real experience? Such a hallucination can be the result of a very good imagination or brought on by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances. When a person persistently believes such hallucinations are true that person is called delusional.

Given we can prove for a fact people can have hallucinations that they believe are true and that people can have persistent delusional beliefs based on such hallucinations, how do you objectively decide what is not base on hallucinations created by the imagination?
 
Moving on to another forum.

Thoth108 has indeed seen MANY THINGS in his mind that Pauloff, and most of this forum, will continue to say is, "not real."

The funny thing to Thoth is that MANY, MANY, MANY other people see and describe the same things that he has seen. These people too, are considered crazy. Many books have been written throughout history on it. Science continues to pretend that those books are "imagination," and leaves them on the shelf next to "alchemy."

This forum is for people who like to word-bully chris angel fans; and explain all magick and spiritual teachings as myth alone. I recommend a full course of Joseph Campbell for you all, followed by a retreat to Africa or South America for some hallucinogenic education. The truth will come about when you start seeing things as well; and then we'll see who calls them "hallucinations."

I've spent too much time in these forums looking for people who could explore the science of what I know. I found only critics; not skeptics, but critics. There are many other forums out there where the science of shamanic visions has already been debated, and there is less skepticism to hold the conversation back.

You guys can go back to correcting each others diction, and parading your cause against Sylvia Browne. The funny thing is that, when you die, you'll get it. (I'm glad I read her books about the journey to the other side before I died; it helped put the teaching of the Tibetan Book of the Dead in a new light.)

Peace, and compassionate love to you all. WE are ALL BEINGS OF LIGHT, that will again find our way.

BTW: You'll all see auroras after the north pole/south pole switch in a few years; that's why so many more people are talking about this stuff! It'll just happen naturally. Ask everybody at work tomorrow if they've had deja vu recently.

Good bye.
 
However remote, small and unlikely the probability of this being true, even one out of a trillion chance or smaller, do you consider there being any chance it could be true?
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A dream is a simulation, and then ask the Hindus and the people that practice Tai-chi.

Ok the woman said the place was in Orion’s belt and that there was a horses head there as a guide. She said go towards the belt area or the body’s center.
She wrote that before astronomers knew of the Horse Head Nebula.
She was turned back because it wasn't her time to die.

If it was in my mind and it was because I read the descriptions, why was I stopped before I could go over the wall of what I was seeing and see what made the glow effect on the other side? And I was told why I couldn't, that action was against my will of purpose?
I purposefully decided that was where I was going and was stopped. Just because she was stopped there I wasn’t going to be stopped, I want to see what she couldn’t.
With explanations, of why I could not pass that barrier.
Soul travel on Earth was unlimited in destination of my choice.
I was able to ask questions and get answers about that place, some one was there to stop me in a benevolent way.

You’ll never know unless you try.
It’s funny how every body’s delusional except skeptics; did you ever consider that it might be the skeptics that are delusional?
Just some things, maybe not everything.
Go get your proof.
 
Thoth108,

I think a number of people close out all possibilities from having any chance of being true. I don’t like to do this. I must put weight towards what can be objectively proved, but also maintain the possibility for other things to be true.

How do we know what is true or not true?

What are possibilities that can be argued as being true even though we can not prove them so?

When some people believe an unproven possibility is true, are their logical flaws with the idea? If there are logical flaws, can the idea be shifted around and worked with so that it corrects the logical flaws while still believing in something that can not be proven?

I have a very good conscious control over my imagination. I know other people who are just as good. I can actively place myself into a dream with full sensory perception and then add on perceptions I do not physically have. I can make these imaginary scenes so real that when I was in 3rd and 4th grade I went through a period of time where I had serious trouble differentiating between a few very intense imagined events and reality. In such dreams I can see, feel, taste, touch, read books, be different beings, die, and so on, all in extreme levels of detail.

When I was in the 3rd grade, a devote Christian babysitter began explaining to me in detail about what would happen to me if I did not become a Christian and what would happen to my mother, father and sister if they did not become Christians. She put the fear of Satan into me. I took what she told me and began using my very good imaginative abilities to create events happening based on what she was telling me, the resultant nightmares where so strong that being awake would not stop them. I would have to be driven to an emergency room and given a sedative before I would stop screaming in terror at what I was imagining.

It took six months before my parents figured out the source of the nightmares and another year before I finally learned how to fully control my dreams.

But, what is reality to us?

How can we really prove that our reality is not truly a shared dream? Perhaps our reality based on technology is a shared delusion and the reason it wins over other beliefs is because deep down most dreamers believe the technological based dream and thus the shared dream becomes restricted to the technological reality.

Even a true believer in Technology does not truly know anything beyond what they are actively sensing and what they remember. If you consider that, it truly narrows down what would be required for our reality to be a technological simulation or a shared dream of some beings existing in some other reality. For all we know, there is only one real being, “YOU”, and the rest of this known universe is created just to give your existence a background. Or, perhaps there are only a dozen real dreamers. Or perhaps there is a dreamer for each living being?

While I must choose to live my life based on what is must provable, I can consider other possibilities that might be true and even take from that consideration important concepts such as my purpose in life.

Even though I think it is unlikely, I take the meaning for my life, the purpose for my life, from the remote possibility that I am a “virtually immortal being” living one of many “mortal lives”.

Even should this prove to be untrue, the meaning and purpose for my life is still very valid and is of great benefit to me.
 
Edge,

Maybe the skeptics are delusional.

How do we really know?

But if you don’t consider this and make a good effort to decide what is real versus what is imagined, then you may find yourself believing something that does not hold together well.

For example, many people share a common memory or common dream related to being able to fly, the most common method being that the air somehow becomes thicker or gravity becomes less so that we can jump and slowly float down of if we make swimming motions we can swim through the air. This is a very widespread memory of a dream or imagined experience.

For some people the memory of this is so vivid that they can question themselves as to whether or not they really did fly like this. Because many other people have a similar memory, suppose they sought each other out and compared notes and decided that since they all shared basically the same memory, it must be true and must have really happened.

So, if this group of people begins to claim they can fly by swimming through the air, are they delusional?

They can not prove it, but they will all swear they have done it and that it is true.
 
edge said:
A dream is a simulation, and then ask the Hindus and the people that practice Tai-chi.
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Okay, but they believe in reincarnation after you die you inhabit another body and die again and get reborn repeatedly.

You say you believe in an afterlife, does this mean you believe in this too? If the hindu's are correct about an afterlife doesn't that blow your theory out of the water?
 
lolurigeller said:
Okay, but they believe in reincarnation after you die you inhabit another body and die again and get reborn repeatedly.

You say you believe in an afterlife, does this mean you believe in this too? If the hindu's are correct about an afterlife doesn't that blow your theory out of the water?
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Lolurigeller,

If the Hindu’s are correct then there must be some core essence to our beings which does not die and exists somewhere in some form while it transits from the end of one mortal life to the beginning of a new mortal life while on the developmental journey to the transcendent state of being. This would support the idea of an immortal soul or immortal spirit. Of course, it has nothing to do with believing in Jesus Christ.
 
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