• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Any hypothesis on pools of metal?

Revolutionary91 said:
I want to know what happened to the office furniture that didn't burn. There were thousands of chairs, desks, computers etc but none were found.

There was also 200 acres of flat steel floor decking, I have never even seen a picture of any floor decks.
Click to expand...

Why?

A 110 storey building just collapsed violently from the top down. We've never seen such a thing before.

Why do you expect office furniture to survive? What do you base your expectations upon?

Why would you have any expectations at all? It happened. The results are documented. Just because it doesn't conform to your imagination does not a conspiracy make.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
I hear the same thing from the CT crowd over and over.
Click to expand...
You're associating with the wrong people then. I never hear conspiracist idiocy except when I go looking for it.

Thermite/Thermate. I want to hear other ways the event could have happened.
Click to expand...
I believe it's statements like this that make some people suspicious of your intent. You've been given rational explanations and links to a great deal of reading material for deeper research. Yet you're here asking the same questions over and over.

Just so you know, registering here, claiming that you haven't made up your mind about 9/11, starting threads and participating in others where your posts contain mostly truther questions and claims, but not taking the time to absorb the information you're given, is all classic truther behavior. We've seen it a hundred times. You may be entirely honest about your intent, but your behavior fits a pattern that makes a skeptic's hackles rise.
 
uk_dave said:
Why?

A 110 storey building just collapsed violently from the top down. We've never seen such a thing before.

Why do you expect office furniture to survive? What do you base your expectations upon?

Why would you have any expectations at all? It happened. The results are documented. Just because it doesn't conform to your imagination does not a conspiracy make.
Click to expand...
I can't tell you how much that feigned denier confusion bothers me. Here's an experiment for them:

Drop a desk from a 50-story window. Note how it smashes to pieces. Repeat the drop with a new desk, but before letting go place a 200 million pound weight on the desk. Note how much smaller the pieces are. Go downstairs and place the remaining pieces in a hot oven for a month. Observe and record what remains of the desk.
 
Gravy said:
I can't tell you how much that feigned denier confusion bothers me. Here's an experiment for them:

Drop a desk from a 50-story window. Note how it smashes to pieces. Repeat the drop with a new desk, but before letting go place a 200 million pound weight on the desk. Note how much smaller the pieces are. Go downstairs and place the remaining pieces in a hot oven for a month. Observe and record what remains of the desk.
Click to expand...

Why would I feign confusion?

We have all seen the clip where the italian-named firefighter expresses his incredulity at the fact they didnt find any office paraphenalia.

I do not believe that 50,000 telephones, in a random chaotic collapse that spread well outside the footprint, would just disappear.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Ok, thanks for that information.
Wait...175 did not exist?
....
Eh?
Did he mean at all, or just after it was torn apart by the slamming into a building?
I'll assume by the "If you can stomach it" as an indication of the latter.
Yikes.
Click to expand...

The former, that it wasn't Flight 175 that hit the Tower, still at least he thinks it was a plane, just a super strengthened one being flown by remote control by an invisible business jet.. Ace Barker, who also have threads here, claims that Flights 175 and 11 didn't exist and all, and that they were just pasted into the TV footage. :jaw-dropp
 
Revolutionary91 said:
I do not believe that 50,000 telephones, in a random chaotic collapse that spread well outside the footprint, would just disappear.
Click to expand...

Why?

ETA:
Do you have any idea of the scale of the wtc collapse? Why should you expect to see a recogniseable bit of plastic after the collapse of a building the size of the wtc towers?

I used this example on another thread, but it might be useful for you to concieve of the scale we are talking about.

Imagine a room 6.0m x 6.0m (about 20ft by 20ft). If you can't, try measuring a room in your house and see if that helps.

Now, if this 20ft square room was a wtc tower foorprint, the 4inch thick concrete that the tower had at each floor would be less than half an inch thick.

Half an inch of concrete over an area of 20ft x 20ft.

Hope that helps

(oh and a telephone would probably be about 3/4 of an inch square.)
 
Last edited:
e^n said:
Investigation is all well and good, but you will inevitably arrive with an unfortunate set of facts:
  • Were there any recorded temperatures high enough to melt steel?
    No
  • Were there any tests done on molten material to determine it's composition?
    No
  • Is there any verified evidence confirming existence of molten steel?
    No
There are so many plausible explanations to the 'molten metal' claim and very few pieces of evidence on which to support the claim it was steel. I'm not ruling it out as the evidence is equally poor on both sides, but there are explanations which are more plausible (lead, zinc, copper, aluminium etc).
Click to expand...

It's also important to note that even if there was verifiable proof of molten metal, and even if this was proven to be molten steel, there is no connecting link between this and the use of explosives or thermite/thermate to destroy the WTC.

Griffin simply states that if there is molten steel, it can only be explained by explosives. It only takes a moment's thought to see that this is absurd. Explosives explode, they don't heat metal for weeks on end. Even themite couldn't continue to heat steel to melting point for that length of time.

There are two explanations for the reports of molten metal. Either they are entirely spurious, or they are instances of metals with comparitively lower melting points than steel being melted at local hot spots caused by the contents of the building continuing to burn.

There isn't actually another explanation on offer. The Truth community have yet to come up with a story that connects molten metal at Ground Zero with the deliberate destruction of the building.
 
Revolutionary91 said:
Why would I feign confusion?
Click to expand...
Why won't you take the time to learn?

Why would you say you wouldn't mind if Jason Holmes made good on his death threat to me, but plead with him to wait until after LC:FC is released?

Why would you make an animated .GIF avatar of me getting speared through the torso by a pitchfork?

Why do you do these things? Because you're that kind of person, that's why.
 
Revolutionary91 said:
I do not believe that 50,000 telephones, in a random chaotic collapse that spread well outside the footprint, would just disappear.
Click to expand...

So what do you believe? That all the phones had been removed from the building before it collapsed? That someone put explosives in all the phones and blew them up?
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Thanks for the links. I still have a lot of reading to do.


50 posts!?
Do they get mad if you spam your own thread?




Spam
Spam
Click to expand...

I felt the same way. No worries though, you'll be at 50 posts before you know it :)

I wouldn't recommend spamming your own thread, perhaps posting on a few threads in other topics would be an easier way to reach 50.
 
uk_dave said:
Why?

ETA:
Do you have any idea of the scale of the wtc collapse? Why should you expect to see a recogniseable bit of plastic after the collapse of a building the size of the wtc towers?

I used this example on another thread, but it might be useful for you to concieve of the scale we are talking about.

Imagine a room 6.0m x 6.0m (about 20ft by 20ft). If you can't, try measuring a room in your house and see if that helps.

Now, if this 20ft square room was a wtc tower foorprint, the 4inch thick concrete that the tower had at each floor would be less than half an inch thick.

Half an inch of concrete over an area of 20ft x 20ft.

Hope that helps

(oh and a telephone would probably be about 3/4 of an inch square.)
Click to expand...
Or, take four or five sheets of 8 1/2x11" letter-size 20 lb. copy paper and lay them perfectly flat on top of each other. If the long side of the paper is the length of a WTC tower exterior wall, the thickness of the 4-5 sheets is the thickness of an average WTC concrete floor with corrugated decking.

When is Revolutionary going to explain what he would expect to find when two quarter-mile high, billion-pound buildings collapse next to each other, followed by the dust and debris of a third skyscraper?

What is he suggesting happened to these floors and furnishings? Were they destroyed by space beams?
 
Unfit4Command said:
I felt the same way. No worries though, you'll be at 50 posts before you know it :)

I wouldn't recommend spamming your own thread, perhaps posting on a few threads in other topics would be an easier way to reach 50.
Click to expand...
I'd like to suggest focusing on that reading material, not on making posts to reach the avatar threshold.

Does that sound like a good idea, DA?
 
Why would I feign confusion?

Revolutionary91 said:
Why would I feign confusion?

We have all seen the clip where the italian-named firefighter expresses his incredulity at the fact they didnt find any office paraphenalia.

I do not believe that 50,000 telephones, in a random chaotic collapse that spread well outside the footprint, would just disappear.
Click to expand...

And if the collapse of a millions ton building doesn't seems sufficient to destroy the telephones in each office, what would? When the evil conspirators were planning this, did they say

Illuminati said:
OK, that's enough explosives to bring down the buildings. But - I don't think that's enough. We won't be able to go to war with Iraq if we just kill thousands of people. We have to get all the telephones as well.
Click to expand...

I think the fundamental error of a lot of the Truth Movement is in the belief that demolition crews blow up buildings with huge amounts of explosive, and that results in clouds of dust, etc. They fail to realise that the art of demolition is to use as little explosive as possible, and that the noise, dust and debris are almost entirely the result of the collapse.

If the evil conspiracy had wanted to destroy the buildings, they would have had an incentive to use as little explosive as possible. They would not have used a gigantic telephone erasing blast, and if they had it would have been obvious.

Finally, how do we know that no telephones survived? Did FDNY have a telephone counting group?

Not the FDNY said:
Murphy, you're identifying human remains. The smallest particle of bone could be vital for DNA identification. Jones, you're looking for survivors. Unlikely, I know, but we have to try. Adamson, your job is to count intact telephones.
Click to expand...

This is either real or feigned confusion. It certainly isn't a coherent theory of what happened.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Thank you for the reply. However, I have a problem with it. Aluminum is silver when it is melted, not 'lava like' orange. Has the hypothesis of the 'oven effect' been tested to any degree?
You do not have to mention cutting compounds. I seek alternate means of the event. I am not even close to sold on the thermite/thermate theory. It is just one of the topics I have not seen much research or debate on without those two compounds coming up.
Click to expand...

Devils advocate, when aluminium is smelted it glows reddy orange.

It all depends on the temperature the aluminium is heated to.

These examples show aluminium that glows very brightly: http://www.machineryautomation.com.au/images/allsmelting.gif

http://www.longrakespar.co.uk/images/applications/industrial_square.jpg

http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/molten.jpg
 
This may seem silly, but if it was suppose to be a CD where are the Phones?? Would not the blasts sent some of them out the windows?? And as none of them were ever recovered how could it be a CD? :jaw-dropp

I Am He
 
peteweaver said:
Devils advocate, when aluminium is smelted it glows reddy orange.

It all depends on the temperature the aluminium is heated to.

These examples show aluminium that glows very brightly: http://www.machineryautomation.com.au/images/allsmelting.gif

http://www.longrakespar.co.uk/images/applications/industrial_square.jpg

http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/molten.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes, someone posted links about this earlier, but thank you just the same. Learning is good.
=o)
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Office furniture would have burned hotter than jet fuel? That is interesting. I need to read the NIST report again. I cannot recall if it mentioned any O2 starvation that seemed to be evident in the thick black smoke from the towers.
<snip>
Click to expand...

I just wanted to pick up on the smoke colour.

I happened to be reading a guide to the United Kingdom Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order yesterday (don't ask!) The one I was reading was for producing a Fire Risk Assessment for Small And Medium Places Of Entertainment.

Link http://www.communities.gov.uk/pub/426/SmallandMediumPlacesofAssemblyfullguide_id1500426.pdf

At the bottom of page 16 (document page) is this paragraph.

Smoke produced by a fire also contains
toxic gases which are harmful to
people. A fire in a building with modern
fittings and materials generates smoke
that is thick and black, obscures vision,
causes great difficulty in breathing and
can block the escape routes.
Click to expand...

This fits with my experience, and it has been mentioned by other posters here, the smoke colour is mainly influenced by what is burning, and is not indicative of oxygen starvation.

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom