[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

[Z]

How long does it take the missile defence to prep, warm up, brief and take off?
Allow me to start the bidding at one second.

What 'missile defence'?

Oh no, you're not bringing up that old canard about the anti-aircraft missiles that silly troofers think defended the Pentagon, are you? 'Cuz they never existed, Mally.

The most expedient defense system available to protect the Pentagon from airborne attack would be to scramble available fighters, which have a 15-minute window from alert to take-off, IF they're in alert status at the time, which not every airbase during peacetime would be in. No tanks, no anti-aircraft missiles or artillery, none of that was anywhere NEAR the Pentagon on 9/11, nor any time before 9/11.

So bid all you want.

Oh, and no, other than point-and-shoot rocketry, missile defense systems can take from two to five minutes from acquisition of target to launching of missile (not counting nuclear weapons controlled by NORAD).

The United States was never set up to defend itself from aerial attack, and still is largely inadequate to such a purpose, for the simple reason that the people generally consider such an attack massively unlikely.

 

[fezzic]

How long does it take the missile defence to prep, warm up, brief and take off?
Allow me to start the bidding at one second.

A non-existent missile defense? I'd say infinity however given some time and a recognition of the need, I am sure that one could be set up in a matter of days.

 

[Civilized Worm]

I've lost track of this thread, has Malkie produced any actually evidence yet?

 

[Corsair 115]

No, I said the Normandy landings were presented to the Germans as a hoax.

No, you did not explicitly state that. Here is how the issue came up:

In post #1170, Belz, in the midst of responding to something else, closed with this:

Somehow I doubt you will. I think your "evidence" will amount to you saying that it wasn't 100% sure to succeed, and therefore didn't happen. I guess D-Day was a hoax, too.

Subsequently, in post #1255 you replied with:

D Day was indeed presented to the Germans as a hoax. Hoax's, false flag operations etc are things that governments are well versed in.

Note that you do not mention Normandy or Pas-de-Calais or anything else. You just say, "D-Day." The vagueness of your statement is what prompted me to reply in post #1333 with:

That is incomplete at best. It is far more accurate to say a landing at Pas-de-Calais was the "hoax" as you put it. But the rest of the operation was most certainly real, and much was done to prevent the Germans from discovering that the actual landing area was to be in the Normandy region.

And that's how we got to the D-Day and hoax issue.

 

[gumboot]

How long does it take the missile defence to prep, warm up, brief and take off?
Allow me to start the bidding at one second.

Malcolm,

Please read very carefully. You are failing to grasp some very basic facts:

1) There are no anti-air defense batteries permanently set up anywhere in the entire United States. This is a fantastical fiction.

2) There were no fighter aircraft on standby for scramble at Langley AFB on 9/11. Fighter aircraft were only ready for scramble at seven locations across the continental United States:

Otis Air National Guard Base, Massachusetts
Homestead Air Reserve Base, Florida
Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida
Langley Air Force Base, Virginia
Portland International Airport, Oregon
March Air Reserve Base, California
Ellington Field, Texas

-Gumboot

 

[Blackwell]

How long does it take the missile defence to prep, warm up, brief and take off?
Allow me to start the bidding at one second.

Which "missile defence" are you referring to? Please include a cite in your answer.

 

[CptColumbo]

I've lost track of this thread, has Malkie produced any actually evidence yet?

It depends on what he is trying to prove. He has certainly proven what subjects he knows next to nothing about. The topic of the thread however, seems to be eluding him.

I think the fundamental problem here is that MK is going at the investigation from the perspective of having to prove every other plane in the world could not have crashed into the WTC, before he will believe it was 175. Rather than looking at the evidence at the scene, the ATC, and the eyewitnesses. You then use that evidence to lead to a working hypothesis and a later theory.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Malcolm,

Please read very carefully. You are failing to grasp some very basic facts:

1) There are no anti-air defense batteries permanently set up anywhere in the entire United States. This is a fantastical fiction.

2) There were no fighter aircraft on standby for scramble at Langley Andrews AFB on 9/11. Fighter aircraft were only ready for scramble at seven locations across the continental United States:

Otis Air National Guard Base, Massachusetts
Homestead Air Reserve Base, Florida
Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida
Langley Air Force Base, Virginia
Portland International Airport, Oregon
March Air Reserve Base, California
Ellington Field, Texas

-Gumboot

Fixed.

 

[332nd]

[slightly off topic] Malcolm, You have two quote attributed to me that I didn't make. I believe that they were made by Curt C and Brainache respectively. I don't know how it happened, I just bring it up in case they get cited on another thread.[Back on topic]

 

[SOMERLED]

It depends on what he is trying to prove. He has certainly proven what subjects he knows next to nothing about. The topic of the thread however, seems to be eluding him.

I think the fundamental problem here is that MK is going at the investigation from the perspective of having to prove every other plane in the world could not have crashed into the WTC, before he will believe it was 175. Rather than looking at the evidence at the scene, the ATC, and the eyewitnesses. You then use that evidence to lead to a working hypothesis and a later theory.

Does the evidence include the engine that was found at the scene. The engine that patently did not power 175?

 

[SOMERLED]

Scramble alert to pilot strapped into a hot aircraft roll out to runway button at 30 MPH - 1 minute

acellerate down runway on full afterburner and wheels up - 30 seconds
acellerate under full afteburner to max velocity of 3000 MPH - 60 seconds(means a forward g force of about 2g's)
flight time 10 miles - 12 seconds

total - close to 3 minutes IF the plane was hot and the pilot already in it.

Arriving over target doing 3000 MPH with little manouverability going about 8 times faster than my potential target, guns unreliable at this speed, in 1 more second being a mile past my potential target.

Yeah, all sounds like just what would be required.
malcolm, a fighter also has to slow down to engage the target and decelleration occurs much slower than acelleration and my having the aircraft acellerate at 2 g's may well be way too fast. Why don't you post the max acelleration of any jet you choose to be the interceptor.

Allow me to refer you to my previous post.

 

[SOMERLED]

He's not being facetious. Reagan National is well inside your impenetrable "Ring of Steel". From the SE wall of the Pentagon to the closest of Reagan's Runways is less than 4000 feet.


I thought they landed in Cleveland? So now you're including the ground crews and staff at one of the biggest airports in the country in your scenario? Also, I'm not sure its physically possible for a jet to fly over the pentagon, turn and land at those speeds. Of course you're welcome to present some sort of evidence to back this extraordinary claim up.

Yes, Reagan is well inside. It is because of it's proximity to the Pentagon that I made the remark.
You are confusing 175 (which landed at Cleveland according to the available evidence). You are confusing 175 with the plane that attacked the Pentagon.
You're not sure that a plane can overfly the Pentagon by, say 100 ft and land at Reagan. Planes land at Reagan every day at a similar height but slightly
more north to south in approach line and closer to the Potomac.
There is nothing unusual at that. Especially when there is a "Get out of the sky" order in force.
Those speeds = what ?

 

[SOMERLED]

Malcolm,

Please read very carefully. You are failing to grasp some very basic facts:

1) There are no anti-air defense batteries permanently set up anywhere in the entire United States. This is a fantastical fiction.

2) There were no fighter aircraft on standby for scramble at Langley AFB on 9/11. Fighter aircraft were only ready for scramble at seven locations across the continental United States:

Otis Air National Guard Base, Massachusetts
Homestead Air Reserve Base, Florida
Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida
Langley Air Force Base, Virginia
Portland International Airport, Oregon
March Air Reserve Base, California
Ellington Field, Texas

-Gumboot

There is no such word as 'fantastical'.
In reply to the rest of your post allow me to refer you to my immediate previous posts.

 

[beachnut]

What 'missile defence'?

Oh no, you're not bringing up that old canard about the anti-aircraft missiles that silly troofers think defended the Pentagon, are you? 'Cuz they never existed, Mally.

The most expedient defense system available to protect the Pentagon from airborne attack would be to scramble available fighters, which have a 15-minute window from alert to take-off, IF they're in alert status at the time, which not every airbase during peacetime would be in. No tanks, no anti-aircraft missiles or artillery, none of that was anywhere NEAR the Pentagon on 9/11, nor any time before 9/11.

So bid all you want.

Oh, and no, other than point-and-shoot rocketry, missile defense systems can take from two to five minutes from acquisition of target to launching of missile (not counting nuclear weapons controlled by NORAD).

The United States was never set up to defend itself from aerial attack, and still is largely inadequate to such a purpose, for the simple reason that the people generally consider such an attack massively unlikely.

We did have Nike sites in the 50s to shoot down bombers from USSR. They were scrapped in the 60s because they could not shoot down missiles. You can see one north of SF, and they were along the east coast too.

http://www.airforcebase.net/usaf/usafnike.html

http://ed-thelen.org/ http://alpha.fdu.edu/~bender/nike.html

But that is just BS for this argument with our newest expert truther. Sorry for the slight off topic. But the Nike sites were all over when I grew up.

 

[SOMERLED]

[slightly off topic] Malcolm, You have two quote attributed to me that I didn't make. I believe that they were made by Curt C and Brainache respectively. I don't know how it happened, I just bring it up in case they get cited on another thread.[Back on topic]

I noticed that myself, I can't explain it either, just a glitch.
Getting back to the topic in hand.
It is
WHY OFFUTT?
1. What is Warren Buffet doing choosing an air force base for a celebrity charity golf event? PLEASE. With all the golf courses to pick from, Augusta etc. Who is gonna pick a moth eaten, divot packed air force base golf course? Furthermore, it's his last event. He's been persuaded out of retirement to stage just one more charity golf do.
He picks an AFB in Nebraska. Never in this world.
2. I had Buffet wrong for quite some time. Saved his breakfast dates life etc. It wasn't until I found out that he actually dropped $2.2 billion that I realised he was a patsy. They ripped him for $2.2 billion, then got close enough to sucker him into hosting a golf do on a moth eaten golf course in Nebraska.
3. Offutt AFB is a dual civilian/military installation. Boeing, Raytheon are surely there.
4. Because of the 'war', all kit is now 'obsolete' after 2 years. That's a ridiculous state of affairs. A plane that's hardly done any miles is 'obsolete' after two years.
5. No military personnel would knowingly involve themselves in mass murder. The perps needed a reason to force air traffic control to get stuff up and off in the darkness. The reason, at dawn all these celebrities are gonna start turning up in their Lear jets etc.
A lot of posters approach mass murder with the attitude, prove this conclusively otherwise it doesn't stand. The answer to that is NO.
If it sounds reasonable to me, then it stands with me. If it takes two shots for someone to commit suicide, all I need is the two shots bit to know it aint suicide. I don't need to prove anything, I just need to think it. If further information comes along that reinforces that view, then I'll think it even more. I will not be told either how to think or what to think and I would counsel others to do likewise.
I very soon knew that the govt/FBI etc had been infested with the wrong sort. For want of a better name, let's settle for Neocons.
A cursory glance at OKC, tells you the neocons are well into mass murder.
The Murragh bldg is at noon, McVeighs van is on the centre spot. A bldg at 6 o clock ends up with debris on its roof from the Murragh bldg. That can only happen if the Murragh bldg was blown OUT, which it obviously was.
There were, as memory serves, three explosions and one that didn't go off.
Now, when you look for inconsistencies with 9/11. It's just as obvious as OKC.
Put yourself in the position of the man in command at Offutt.
You have on your desk Buffet's charity golf do and two big exercises for the same day. You can't change the date of the exercises, the military doesn't work like that. You get orders and obey them.
That now leaves the golf.
You will surely have to knock it back for a day or so.
What are your officers and their wives going to think. They're all pulled out with these exercises and no one can have a mingle with all the celebs?
If you did that, you'd be a popular with your officers as a reggae band at a Ku Klux Klan meeting.
You would not agree to that date for that one reason alone.
That's before you start on all the problems of not having your runways available. Suppose one of your planes has a malfunction, what are you gling to do, tell it to land somewhere else?
It's just nonsense. No CO would agree to it. He would have to be ordered by Cheney.
That's enough for one post and should be enough to raise your suspicions.

 

[SOMERLED]

Killtown?

580MPH+120 feet=700 feet Killtown?

Especially Killtown, I recommend his site unreservedly.

 

[sleahead]

Malcolm, I see you still haven't answered the question about the B25 and the Empire State Building. May I suggest that you drop the claim that an ordinary airliner cannot penetrate a building. You can still have your 'It was not UA 175 that hit the tower' fantasy without including the unnecessary complication the modified "bad boy". After all, Malcolm, I'd guess that most of the physicists and engineers in the world are aware that a jet penetrated the tower and they are not screaming "that's impossible!". Does this fact not trouble you at all?

Now, onto another matter. In order to prove that the engine found in NYC was not from a 767 you link to this website:http://home.att.net/~south.tower/STengine1.htm

I chuckled when I read this:

We teamed up with the Karl Schwarz group to identify the NYC street engine as a CFM56, the powerplant of the Boeing 737

This man is now two for two in misidentifying jet engines, which is not surprising as he has no expertise in aviation at all. In fact, I'd say his area of expertise is in the art of BSing. Read about him here(scroll down).

 

[slingblade]

There is no such word as 'fantastical'.

You are mistaken. The word is an adjective and easily located in any dictionary. I point this out as refutation of your ability to make sound claims.

 

[beachnut]

WHY OFFUTT?
1. What is Warren Buffet doing choosing an air force base for a celebrity charity golf event? PLEASE. With all the golf courses to pick from, Augusta etc. Who is gonna pick a moth eaten, divot packed air force base golf course? Furthermore, it's his last event. He's been persuaded out of retirement to stage just one more charity golf do.
He picks an AFB in Nebraska. Never in this world.
2. I had Buffet wrong for quite some time. Saved his breakfast dates life etc. It wasn't until I found out that he actually dropped $2.2 billion that I realised he was a patsy. They ripped him for $2.2 billion, then got close enough to sucker him into hosting a golf do on a moth eaten golf course in Nebraska.
3. Offutt AFB is a dual civilian/military installation. Boeing, Raytheon are surely there.
4. Because of the 'war', all kit is now 'obsolete' after 2 years. That's a ridiculous state of affairs. A plane that's hardly done any miles is 'obsolete' after two years.
5. No military personnel would knowingly involve themselves in mass murder. The perps needed a reason to force air traffic control to get stuff up and off in the darkness. The reason, at dawn all these celebrities are gonna start turning up in their Lear jets etc.
A lot of posters approach mass murder with the attitude, prove this conclusively otherwise it doesn't stand. The answer to that is NO.
If it sounds reasonable to me, then it stands with me. If it takes two shots for someone to commit suicide, all I need is the two shots bit to know it aint suicide. I don't need to prove anything, I just need to think it. If further information comes along that reinforces that view, then I'll think it even more. I will not be told either how to think or what to think and I would counsel others to do likewise.
I very soon knew that the govt/FBI etc had been infested with the wrong sort. For want of a better name, let's settle for Neocons.
A cursory glance at OKC, tells you the neocons are well into mass murder.
The Murragh bldg is at noon, McVeighs van is on the centre spot. A bldg at 6 o clock ends up with debris on its roof from the Murragh bldg. That can only happen if the Murragh bldg was blown OUT, which it obviously was.
There were, as memory serves, three explosions and one that didn't go off.
Now, when you look for inconsistencies with 9/11. It's just as obvious as OKC.
Put yourself in the position of the man in command at Offutt.
You have on your desk Buffet's charity golf do and two big exercises for the same day. You can't change the date of the exercises, the military doesn't work like that. You get orders and obey them.
That now leaves the golf.
You will surely have to knock it back for a day or so.
What are your officers and their wives going to think. They're all pulled out with these exercises and no one can have a mingle with all the celebs?
If you did that, you'd be a popular with your officers as a reggae band at a Ku Klux Klan meeting.
You would not agree to that date for that one reason alone.
That's before you start on all the problems of not having your runways available. Suppose one of your planes has a malfunction, what are you gling to do, tell it to land somewhere else?
It's just nonsense. No CO would agree to it. He would have to be ordered by Cheney.
That's enough for one post and should be enough to raise your suspicions.

Offutt AFB is not dual use. It is only military. You have not found one correct fact yet. Have you? Not a think in this post make any sense or is close to reality.

 

[MortFurd]

Especially Killtown, I recommend his site unreservedly.

That's it. Malcolm is thoroughly convinced by one of the most whacked out nut cases on the net.

Killtown posted the airplane crash drawing that can be seen in several of the Flight 93 related threads.

Killtown posted the above mentioned example of stunning mathematical abilities.

Killtown assumes you can't light a barbecue grill fire of the electricity is off.

Killtown sees Disney figures in the smoke of the twin towers and assumes that Disney was somehow involved.


Malcolm, I suggest you reconsider your appreciation of Killtown. He has yet to produce anything that showed the least sign of being correct.