[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

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Your logic completely escapes me.


It's pretty simple, really. Of pressurized aluminum hulls and birds, which is stronger? If you answered the pressurized aluminum hull, you'd be right.

Now, let's look at a range of materials and order them from weakest to strongest:

Bird bones -> Aluminum -> Steel -> Titanium.

Now the logic part.....If a bird bone can puncture a harder material(aluminum), you shouldn't be surprised if aluminum can also puncture/sever a harder material(steel).

In fact, if you'd read my earlier post, you might've noticed that I linked a page which explained that birds have destroyed aircraft fan blades(Titanium). I won't even go into how water can cut steel.....

Common sense and science often don't mix, malcolm.
 
I'm sorry. I'm was looking in a book that keeps switching from mph to km/h and I wasn't paying close enough attention. It would be 120mph (195 km/h or 54 m/s) in a "skydiver" like fall, or 200mph (320 km/h or 89m/s) in a dive.

I'm also sorry that I don't know how to do all the symbols for the formula on the computer.
 
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There are 7, 6, 5, 6, 5, 5, 4 continents. Take your pick.

As for the Olympics being the final arbiter of how many continents there are, well:

Thank you for that definition. Now, on May 5th 1945, the five inhabited continents were no longer embroiled in war. Consequently, it ceased to be a world war and instead became the War against Japan.
WW2 ended on May 5th 1945. The official records show May 4th. If you actually view the document itself. You will see that Montgomery first wrote May 5th. He crossed out the 5th and wrote May 4th. That surrender was signed on the 4th. The document itself used to be in the Imperial War Museum, near the Elephant and Castle.
On the 5th Blaskowitz surrendered to Prince Bernhard, the first of a chain of ceremonies, to underline that the guns actually fell silent in the hours before Montgomery fired the victory salvo at 3pm on May 5th. The victory salvo marked the silence of all guns and the end of the war.
The War against Japan had some time to go.
May the 8th was Trumans birthday and he declared in VE day.
 
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/putting+the+cart+before+the+horse.html

False. The mass of the object the jumper struck is sufficient to absorb the energy of the mass of the jumper. This is not to say that it is not possible that the impact of the bodies would cause damage to the concrete on the surface. Please review F=ma.
How much energy is there in a wing tip travelling at 400 or so mph.
Not as much as the energy in a car travelling at 200 mph.
I refer you to my previous post re car, steel wall, coming off worst etc.
 
Because you assert that 175 did hit the south tower, you can start by showing me some evidence that 175 even took off.

Here is an interview with the air traffic controller who was handling United 175 when it was hijacked.



Here is a transcript of the air traffic control tape on which United 175 is cleared for takeoff from BOS. The transcript was obtained by the New York Times.
Remarkable how this tape managed to survive the day. Do you have any information with regard to tapes that didn't survive the day?
 
In legal terms.
I am grateful to you for providing us with not only an agreed definition of reasonable suspicion, but also probable cause. If I can show you probable cause for a search warrant with regard to the take offs and landings from Offutt on the night of 9/10 - 9/11 2001. Will you add your voice to the clamour for a proper investigation of 9/11.
Or would you prefer a future Noam Chomsky to point out the Bush, Cheney, Buffet connection. All of which has reported in the MSM. All except the bit about Buffet dropping a couple of billion in insurance payouts due to 9/11.
Buffet waw a patsy.
 
I am grateful to you for providing us with not only an agreed definition of reasonable suspicion, but also probable cause. If I can show you probable cause for a search warrant with regard to the take offs and landings from Offutt on the night of 9/10 - 9/11 2001. Will you add your voice to the clamour for a proper investigation of 9/11.
No, because of the overwhelming evidence that show that 175 hit the WTC. Your would have to prove that not only was that plane in the sky (I hope you would provide as much evidence for that as you are asking us for to prove that 175 had taken off), but that it was in the area. Futhermore, you would have to prove that it was painted to look like a UA plane, since that is the plane in the photos and identified by eyewitnesses. Remember that evidence is required to prove probable cause, so far you've produced none.

Here's an analogy for you.
Three guys are standing in the middle of a basketball court, during halftime to an NBA game. They are part of the cleaning crew and are just dry mopping the court. One is wearing a hat with the team logo on it, one is wearing a bandana, and the third is wearing a hat with the local baseball teams logo on it. Suddenly, the guy with the baseball hat shoots the other guy with the hat in the head, using a 9mm hidden in his coveralls. Not all the spectators were paying attention, but some saw the first shot. Since it was halftime the feed from the cameras were not live and the cameras were not pointed at the location of the killing. Everyone is now watching the middle of the court, and the Technical Director of the game instructs his camera crew to get a shot of the action for the news division of the network. Before security has time to react, the gunman then shoots the guy with the bandana, in the chest. Almost all the spectators, numbering in the thousands, saw this. The shooter then turns the gun on himself, placing the gun in his mouth and pulls the trigger. The back of his head explodes in a shower of blood and brains.

In David Simon's book Homicide: a Year on the Killing Streets this would be regarded as a "dunker" (short for "slam dunk case"), an obvious suspect and plenty of witnesses. However, Will Peterson and his crew (CSI, for those who are unfamiliar with American TV) arrive, and still have to map out what happened at the scene and collect forensic evidence. The coroner does an autopsy, to determine cause of death. Detectives look into the backgrounds of the victims and shooter, to find a possible motive. Bullets are found in the two victims, along the track of the wounds. Unfortunately, the bullet that killed the shooter can't be found. It traveled (according to witnesses and video playback) at an upward angle, most likely going into the rafters of the building, and may have struck one of the steel supports above it been spent and fell to the ground. Thus probably lost in the crowd as it left the building. According to the coroner, all three died of gunshot wounds. According to the forensics team, the guy in the baseball hat was the shooter. According to the detectives, there was bad blood between the shooter and the victims. Apparently, the guy in the basketball hat was sleeping with the baseball hat wearer's wife, and the guy in the bandana knew this was going on for sometime and didn't tell baseball hat. Two days before there had been an altercation between the men in the locker room. The case is closed.

However, soon after all the findings are published in the newspaper, a dentist finds some unanswered questions. Why did the bullet go through the shooter's head and not the first victim's head? Why was the fact that the second victim had a pacemaker never made public? Why was the third bullet never found? The explanation to him and others he enlists is obvious. A vast conspiracy on the part of professional sports to raise ticket prices.

The dentist, refered to as a "Doctor" by his supporters, explains that only explosives placed within the logo of the hat of the first victim can explain the wound not being a through-and-through. He finds an explosive expert who tells him the "yeah an explosive could cause a wound like that..." Leaving out the rest of the statement, "but to propel the bullet into the skull would require an explosive package size that would be noticeable to the victim and the people around him." He also shows that an explosive could be placed in the pacemaker of the second victim, without doing research into when the victim's last operation was. "Isn't it obvious that the absense of the third bullet is proof that an explosive charge was placed in the man's head." Also, some of the eyewitnesses (including off-duty cops, and soldiers on leave) described some of the "gunshots" as "sounding like small explosions." There is no other possible explanation.

Further, who benefitted? Since the event all major league sports have raised their ticket prices, to pay for extra security.

Why hasn't the investigation been reopened? The sport teams have the city and state officials in their pocket.

Finally, isn't it suspicious that the suspect was identified so quickly? Obviously a patsy.

Or would you prefer a future Noam Chomsky to point out the Bush, Cheney, Buffet connection. All of which has reported in the MSM. All except the bit about Buffet dropping a couple of billion in insurance payouts due to 9/11.
Buffet waw a patsy.
It would have to be a future Noam Chomsky, since the current one doesn't associate with any members of the "Truth" Movement.
 
Thank you for that definition. Now, on May 5th 1945, the five inhabited continents were no longer embroiled in war. Consequently, it ceased to be a world war and instead became the War against Japan.



How do you define "embroiled in war"? It seems as if you believe that, because the fighting in Europe had ended, they were no longer "embroiled". But if a simple lack of fighting on that piece of land is sufficient, then, at least, North America was never (or at least, almost never) embroiled in war.

Thus, by this definition, WW2 was never a "world war".

The only way you could argue it is a "world war" is if it is sufficient for some forces of the various powers to be fighting somewhere, so that the Canadian and US forces fighting overseas count towards NA being "embroiled". But, by that criteria, it was still a world war after the Nazi surrender, as there were still some European forces involved in the fight against Japan.

So, still a "world war", or never a "world war"? Becasue I can't see how you can claim something else without being inconsistent.
 
Thank you for that definition. Now, on May 5th 1945, the five inhabited continents were no longer embroiled in war. Consequently, it ceased to be a world war and instead became the War against Japan.


Wrong on multiple counts.

Even ignoring you that are bucking the most common convention of seven continents, this whole "world war requires..." is yet another invention by you.

Even ignoring the above, after May 1945, the continuing conflict still involved countries from all of the continents (by any accepted convention for identifying them) except for Antarctica.

So, since all inhabited continents (be it 3, 4, 5, or 6) were still embroiled in war, it would still be a world war, even by your definition.

WW2 ended on May 5th 1945.

Wrong again.

The May 5 instrument of surrender was for all German armed forces in Holland, northwest Germany, and in Denmark to Field Marshal Montgomery. The document was completely superseded by the May 7 instrument of surrender for all German forces to General Eisenhower.

Although that final surrender document was signed May 7, 1945, it was not until the following day, May 8, that the Northern German Army, itself, actually surrendered to the Allied Forces.

May the 8th was Trumans birthday and he declared in VE day.

Sounds like the basis of a conspiracy theory to me.
 
Argument from personal incredulity.


Please substantiate your claim. I highly recommend you start with visual analysis. Show that the plane that struck the tower is visually different from that of a Boeing 767-222 painted in UA scheme, or concede that it is visually the same. Then we can discuss a different talking point.

I have presented evidence that the plane was not 175. Surely it is now up to you to show me some evidence that it was. Remember the MSM is out, as far as giving an opinion is concerned. Furthermore, there is reasonable suspicion that the role of the MSM went beyond that, as here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U_GISl3aAA
If you have no evidence that the plane that actually hit the south tower was 175. Then we can immediately proceed.
Let me start with reasonable suspicion as to where 175 actually went,
http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/02/cleveland-airport-mystery.html
 
It's pretty simple, really. Of pressurized aluminum hulls and birds, which is stronger? If you answered the pressurized aluminum hull, you'd be right.

Now, let's look at a range of materials and order them from weakest to strongest:

Bird bones -> Aluminum -> Steel -> Titanium.

Now the logic part.....If a bird bone can puncture a harder material(aluminum), you shouldn't be surprised if aluminum can also puncture/sever a harder material(steel).

In fact, if you'd read my earlier post, you might've noticed that I linked a page which explained that birds have destroyed aircraft fan blades(Titanium). I won't even go into how water can cut steel.....

Common sense and science often don't mix, malcolm.

How is thin aluminium stronger than bone?
Put your finger on a table, press just the one finger down and then hit it with a tin can. Any tin can will do, beans will do fine. Now hit the finger with a sharp blow with the tin can. You won't feel a thing, yet the can will be dented. That proves that bone is stronger than tin. The tin of a tin can, is on a par with the thin aluminium of a civilian airliner.
Ergo, bone is stronger than thin aluminium sheeting.
If you did the same thing with a piece of steel, you would break your finger.
Ergo, steel is stronger than bone.
It now follows, that regardless of the speed involved when thin aluminium sheeting (rounded like a tin can) argues with corrugated steel, backed by a concrete and steel floor, backed by massive core columns, then the thin aluminium sheeting loses. The greater the speed, the faster that happens.
 
Argument from personal incredulity.


Please substantiate your claim. I highly recommend you start with visual analysis. Show that the plane that struck the tower is visually different from that of a Boeing 767-222 painted in UA scheme, or concede that it is visually the same. Then we can discuss a different talking point.
What has the length of the fusilage of an aircraft got to do with "personal incredulity" ?
 
How do you define "embroiled in war"? It seems as if you believe that, because the fighting in Europe had ended, they were no longer "embroiled". But if a simple lack of fighting on that piece of land is sufficient, then, at least, North America was never (or at least, almost never) embroiled in war.

Thus, by this definition, WW2 was never a "world war".

The only way you could argue it is a "world war" is if it is sufficient for some forces of the various powers to be fighting somewhere, so that the Canadian and US forces fighting overseas count towards NA being "embroiled". But, by that criteria, it was still a world war after the Nazi surrender, as there were still some European forces involved in the fight against Japan.

So, still a "world war", or never a "world war"? Becasue I can't see how you can claim something else without being inconsistent.
I would urge everyone not to pursue this red herring. It is not relevant to the discussion of UA Flight 175.
I have presented evidence that the plane was not 175. Surely it is now up to you to show me some evidence that it was. Remember the MSM is out, as far as giving an opinion is concerned. Furthermore, there is reasonable suspicion that the role of the MSM went beyond that, as here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U_GISl3aAA
If you have no evidence that the plane that actually hit the south tower was 175. Then we can immediately proceed.
Let me start with reasonable suspicion as to where 175 actually went,
http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/02/cleveland-airport-mystery.html
Please stop trying to jump ahead. I've been asking you to do something very simple; either show that the visual record of the aircraft that struck the tower is inconsistent with UA Flight 175, or concede that it is visually the same. After resolving this issue we can move on to the next point of discussion.

So, at a greater speed, they would have gone through the pavement into the 'bathtub'. Is that what you are saying?
Strawman
How is thin aluminium stronger than bone?
Put your finger on a table, press just the one finger down and then hit it with a tin can. Any tin can will do, beans will do fine. Now hit the finger with a sharp blow with the tin can. You won't feel a thing, yet the can will be dented. That proves that bone is stronger than tin. The tin of a tin can, is on a par with the thin aluminium of a civilian airliner.
Ergo, bone is stronger than thin aluminium sheeting.
If you did the same thing with a piece of steel, you would break your finger.
Ergo, steel is stronger than bone.
It now follows, that regardless of the speed involved when thin aluminium sheeting (rounded like a tin can) argues with corrugated steel, backed by a concrete and steel floor, backed by massive core columns, then the thin aluminium sheeting loses. The greater the speed, the faster that happens.
Please review F=ma and the previous posts in this thread by posters. Continuing to post false analogies does nothing to support your position.
 
I have presented evidence that the plane was not 175. Surely it is now up to you to show me some evidence that it was. Remember the MSM is out, as far as giving an opinion is concerned. Furthermore, there is reasonable suspicion that the role of the MSM went beyond that, as here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U_GISl3aAA
If you have no evidence that the plane that actually hit the south tower was 175. Then we can immediately proceed.
Let me start with reasonable suspicion as to where 175 actually went,
http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/02/cleveland-airport-mystery.html


You have provided nothing but your assertions, not evidence.
 
Remarkable how this tape managed to survive the day. Do you have any information with regard to tapes that didn't survive the day?

There is nothing the least bit remarkable about the ATC tapes being used in the investigation. ATC communications and radar data are routinely recorded for the specific purpose of helping to reconstruct the sequence of events leading up to a crash. On such a disastrous day as 9/11/01 it would be an absolute no-brainer for the people who service the recording gear to set the recordings aside for investigators immediately.

Where I work we have surveillance cameras set up to cover the entrances, parking lots, reception area and the lockers where portable items of value are kept. The time-lapse VCR tapes that record the outputs of these cameras are used in a rotating sequence- when tape 1 is filled it's replaced with tape 2 and so on until the whole set is filled, at which point tape 1 is reused and recorded over. However, if we came to work one morning and found a dead body in the parking lot, the tape that was in the machine at the time would immediately be ejected and set aside for the police.

That's just simple good sense operation of a logging system for its intended purpose.

But that's not the point, is it? Isn't your real point to try to justify yourself in ignoring all evidence that contradicts your unsupported claims, by insinuating that it must be faked and that the realevidence must have been destroyed by the eevil, eevil gummint?
 
You say it doesn't matter what you are made of, at 500 mph, you will go through it. Using that logic, the jumpers should have gone through the pavement.

So, at a greater speed, they would have gone through the pavement into the 'bathtub'. Is that what you are saying?

No, I'm saying that the example you were using, to prove that a something going 500mph couldn't penetrate the side of the WTC, was a flawed one. Like many of your other ideas.
 
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