Does anyone else back up William Rodriguez's story?

[Gravy]

Daria Coard's story? She was on the street: she doesn't say how far from the building. It may well have been the south tower collapse she experienced. If not, she describes debris "falling everywhere," which was happening before and during the collapses. People were killed by it. When metal falls from a thousand feet up, it makes a mighty bang. In addition, cars and trucks were on fire and exploding in the street after the aircraft impacts.

 

[Swing Dangler]

CHF, again, I will not be discussing or responding to who did it or why they did it. Only that an explosive device was used in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

The who and why are pure speculation. You second attempt to distract from the topic is noted.

 

[Quad4_72]

After reading the reports from people who experienced the event in the basement levels, examining the elevator shafts in graphics and from descriptions from NIST, viewing the initial impact, and considering the historical record of terrorists attacks against the WTC, I formed my opinion. Which is why I would like to see figures supporting the contention that a fireball was responsible for the event in the basement.

Any way you could give me a couple sources for the information you used to form your opinion? Sorry I am just trying to gain a better understanding of where you are comin from.

 

[Swing Dangler]

Daria Coard's story? She was on the street: she doesn't say how far from the building. It may well have been the south tower collapse she experienced. If not, she describes debris "falling everywhere," which was happening before and during the collapses. People were killed by it. When metal falls from a thousand feet up, it makes a mighty bang. In addition, cars and trucks were on fire and exploding in the street after the aircraft impacts.

Is there a reason you linked to her account in Arturo's account in your paper and located her link in the Plaza, Lobby, Concourse, Basement portion in your paper?

Why do you list unknown locations in this section as well?

Also, can you provide a source for the vehicles that exploded near her which would have caused the damage to people that she witnessed?

Or you don't have to considering the topic is the basement at this point.

 

[CHF]

CHF, again, I will not be discussing or responding to who did it or why they did it. Only that an explosive device was used in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

The who and why are pure speculation. You second attempt to distract from the topic is noted.

Just trying to coax a little honesty out of you, that's all.

 

[Quad4_72]

CHF, again, I will not be discussing or responding to who did it or why they did it. Only that an explosive device was used in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

The who and why are pure speculation. You second attempt to distract from the topic is noted.

Ah this brings us back to my original question. What was the purpose of putting explosives in the basement? Why do that when the collapse was top down?

 

[Swing Dangler]

Any way you could give me a couple sources for the information you used to form your opinion? Sorry I am just trying to gain a better understanding of where you are comin from.

Sources: PA Transcripts, Eyewitness accounts in the basement as found in many media outlets, including some in Gravy's paper, and NIST.
I will provide links as soon as I can post them.

 

[LashL]

I'm not arguing William's timing of impacts. I'm arguing that an explosive device was used by terrorists in the basement of WTC North Tower.

Then why did you say that those vague references in your post corroborate Rodriguez' assertions? Are you saying that Rodriguez asserts that there were explosive devices planted in the basement of the north tower by terrorists?

 

[Swing Dangler]

Ah this brings us back to my original question. What was the purpose of putting explosives in the basement? Why do that when the collapse was top down?

I will not be respoding to the why and the who at this point. That is pure speculation. If we can agree that a fireball didn't cause the damage, and we can rule out other things that might have caused the destruction and human damage, and reach the conclusion that an explosive device was used, then we can move on to the why and the who.

The who and why only serve to distract from reaching an acceptance of the event itself.

 

[Swing Dangler]

Then why did you say that those vague references in your post corroborate Rodriguez' assertions? Are you saying that Rodriguez asserts that there were explosive devices planted in the basement of the north tower by terrorists?

Does Rodriguez after learning more information about what happened and talking to other victims still believe a fireball traveled down the elevator shaft to cause the destruction? No I do not think he does, despite what he stated to the NIST early on in the investigation.

Perhaps I should have started a thread on the more specific topic?

 

[T.A.M.]

Welcome to the Forum Swing...

I am sure you will find your visits here, interesting, if nothing more.

TAM

 

[CHF]

Quit the tap-dancing, Swing. Just say what you think happened.

You're trying to get people to accept a story without presenting any sort of logic behind it.

 

[Swing Dangler]

Hi Tam! Good to see you again! It's like a SLC reunion here in a very weird sort of way.

 

[Furcifer]

If we can agree that a fireball didn't cause the damage...

No

 

[Gravy]

After reading the reports from people who experienced the event in the basement levels, examining the elevator shafts in graphics and from descriptions from NIST, viewing the initial impact, and considering the historical record of terrorists attacks against the WTC, I formed my opinion. Which is why I would like to see figures supporting the contention that a fireball was responsible for the event in the basement.

1) Many people witnessed the fireball, and described falling elevators, in the basement.

2) People, like Felipe David on B2 and Jose Sanchez on B4, suffered flash burns.

3) People, including William Rodriguez on B1 and Mike Pecoraro on B6, smelled kerosene after the blast. Do you think that's a coincidence?

4) All the explosions were reported at or near the freight elevator. People described a fast, hot wind.

5) There is no evidence of structural damage in the basement, much less damage from explosives massive enough to damage core columns. (Think of the photo I posted of the 1993 bomb damage, which did not destroy the parking garage columns.) The core walls were made of gypsum wallboard.

6) No one describes anything like a high explosive. No one was blown to pieces. High explosives do not produce persistent fireballs. The people in Turner's field office thought a bomb had gone off: a natural assumption. However, there isn't a single shred of evidence of a bomb going off, nor is it logical that a small bomb would be there. All evidence, from the impact zones down, is consistent with jet fuel igniting in the elevator shafts.

7) This happened in both towers.

 

[Swing Dangler]

Just say what you think happened.

Uhh, I thought I did. I think an explosive device was used in the basement of WTC: North Tower.

You're trying to get people to accept a story without presenting any sort of logic behind it.

I'm presenting facts first. Your looking for logic in motivation and purpose. And again, I just stated that I wouldn't be entertaing the motivation part of the event.

 

[T.A.M.]

Hi Tam! Good to see you again! It's like a SLC reunion here in a very weird sort of way.

Yes, I agree. I am sure you have been here as a lurker prior to joining, so a blurb on how things work over here is not likely needed.

Presenting evidence is the key, and presenting something new, even if insane or contraversial, will attract more attention than spewing the same old truther tripe...

TAM

 

[Quad4_72]

I will not be respoding to the why and the who at this point. That is pure speculation. If we can agree that a fireball didn't cause the damage, and we can rule out other things that might have caused the destruction and human damage, and reach the conclusion that an explosive device was used, then we can move on to the why and the who.

The who and why only serve to distract from reaching an acceptance of the event itself.

Sorry Swing but thats not the way the scientific method works. You don't start off with the conclusion. You must first explore all other options. But ok, lets assume that it was explosives in the basement. We will go by your method, and right now lets assume everything you say is true. What purpose did putting bombs in the basement of the North tower serve? The collapse was from the top down, so I fail to see the purpose of the bombs in the basement. Do you have an explanation?

 

[Furcifer]

1) Many people witnessed the fireball, and described falling elevators, in the basement.

2) People, like Felipe David on B2 and Jose Sanchez on B4, suffered flash burns.

3) People, including William Rodriguez on B1 and Mike Pecoraro on B6, smelled kerosene after the blast. Do you think that's a coincidence?

4) All the explosions were reported at or near the freight elevator. People described a fast, hot wind.

5) There is no evidence of structural damage in the basement, much less damage from explosives massive enough to damage core columns. (Think of the photo I posted of the 1993 bomb damage, which did not destroy the parking garage columns.) The core walls were made of gypsum wallboard.

6) No one describes anything like a high explosive. No one was blown to pieces. High explosives do not produce persistent fireballs. The people in Turner's field office thought a bomb had gone off: a natural assumption. However, there isn't a single shred of evidence of a bomb going off, nor is it logical that a small bomb would be there. All evidence, from the impact zones down, is consistent with jet fuel igniting in the elevator shafts.

7) This happened in both towers.

Yes

 

[LashL]

Does Rodriguez after learning more information about what happened and talking to other victims still believe a fireball traveled down the elevator shaft to cause the destruction? No I do not think he does, despite what he stated to the NIST early on in the investigation.

Perhaps I should have started a thread on the more specific topic?

Perhaps you should be more precise with your allegations. I say that the matters you have alluded to and that you say support Rodriguez's (belated) assertions do no such thing.

If you think that Rodriguez believes that there were bombs planted in the basement by terrorists, as you have suggested, I think you should ask him if he agrees with what you are asserting on his behalf rather than asking others what Rodriguez "believes".

As it stands, you have claimed that a report of a "cave in" on level B-4 and a report of people running from a PATH train somehow "support Rodriguez's statements". You have not shown this to be true at all, so you should either provide evidence to support your claim or retract it.