Does anyone else back up William Rodriguez's story?

CHF said:
You gonna feed that paper of yours to the lions, Swing? :D
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Almost ready, bro! Good to see you. Do you know what the limit is on a post length?

Does anyone know if there is a source out there that can confirm the presence of 9 firefighters in B-4 level shortly after the first impact? I've searched all of the Time's FF transcripts and I can't find any comments that support 9 FF that didn't have flashlights and left a person scared ******** in the dark.
 
Swing Dangler said:
Well a cave in a B-4 and the PATH plaza support Willie's statements. Not only that, a destroyed machine shop as well as a parking garage confirm it as well. Lets not forget destroyed and cracked walls as well.
Now is it not strange that a fireball traveling that far down a single shaft doesn't destroy floors,walls and shafts all the way down?

Common sense and logic will tell you that a fireball did not create the damage in the sublevels as far down as B-4. Arthuro Griffith the operator of the only elevator whose shaft reached the impact floors to the lowest part of the basement where massive damage was witnesses suffered no injuries from a fireball while in his elevator. If the fireball myth were true, he would be dead.
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As usual, you're missing something very big. Can you guess what it is? Perhaps you should read this. All you need to know is there. You can do this. Okay, maybe you can't, but I'm an optimist.

P.S. If you doubt what Arturo Griffith and the others in the basement experienced, why don't you contact them? Will you? Yes or no?
 
LashL said:
You'll have to be much more specific, SwingDangler.

I.e. What is this "cave in a B-4" of which you speak? How does the "PATH plaza support [Rodriguez's] statements"? And which portion of the Port Authority transcripts are you referring to?
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The events below took place prior to either collapse and after the explosion heard in the basement. This damage is inconsistent with a fireball. I do not have any figures, but I doubt the energy of the fireball could cause such destruction, hence the explosive device.
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PA 010 transcript.
PAPD Officer 33 responding to a Cave in at B-4
a. Location: Traveling to sub-level B-4, WTC North Tower
b. “Myself and (inaudible) to the Trade Center responding with scott packs to the B-4 Level. There’s a report of a cave-in and people trapped.”
c. PAPD Desk-“Roger, three three and eight-two Houston, World Trade responding B-4 level on a report of a cave in.
d. Officer 33- “There’s also been a cave-in at the platform of the PATH plaza…there’s a live electrical, and water running. Turn off the power in that area.
e. PAPD Desk reports to other responders-“Three-three is reporting that
there is a cave in, B-4 level, at the World Trade Center, copy? A possibility of people trapped."
---
Male caller to 310B Fire Command Radio Channel X-Security
a. Location-Near or on the Path Train
b. “Please let me get through! The PATH train, something is going on at the PATH train! Can you ask somebody to make an announcement, 310B, people are running out of the PATH train, copy!
c. Male-“Ten-four. (Inaudible) to 63.” Female-“Yes.
d. Male-“See if you can make an announcement with PAPD with regards to people panicking in the PATH trains! Female-“That’s people by the PATH train, copy.”
PA transcript 048
 
Gravy said:
P.S. If you doubt what Arturo Griffith and the others in the basement experienced, why don't you contact them? Will you? Yes or no?
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He might. But only if you find the contact info for him.
 
The twoofers stand behind his story...does that count? Then again they will stand behind anything that has to do with a CT....
 
Swing Dangler said:
The events below took place prior to either collapse and after the explosion heard in the basement. This damage is inconsistent with a fireball. I do not have any figures, but I doubt the energy of the fireball could cause such destruction, hence the explosive device.
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You don't have any figures is correct. You say that you doubt the energy of the fireball could cause the destruction. What is that based on? You don't have figures, so is it personal opinion? What qualifies you to make a credible opinion?
 
Swing Dangler said:
The events below took place prior to either collapse and after the explosion heard in the basement. This damage is inconsistent with a fireball. I do not have any figures, but I doubt the energy of the fireball could cause such destruction, hence the explosive device.
-----
PA 010 transcript.
PAPD Officer 33 responding to a Cave in at B-4
a. Location: Traveling to sub-level B-4, WTC North Tower
b. “Myself and (inaudible) to the Trade Center responding with scott packs to the B-4 Level. There’s a report of a cave-in and people trapped.”
c. PAPD Desk-“Roger, three three and eight-two Houston, World Trade responding B-4 level on a report of a cave in.
d. Officer 33- “There’s also been a cave-in at the platform of the PATH plaza…there’s a live electrical, and water running. Turn off the power in that area.
e. PAPD Desk reports to other responders-“Three-three is reporting that
there is a cave in, B-4 level, at the World Trade Center, copy? A possibility of people trapped."
---
Male caller to 310B Fire Command Radio Channel X-Security
a. Location-Near or on the Path Train
b. “Please let me get through! The PATH train, something is going on at the PATH train! Can you ask somebody to make an announcement, 310B, people are running out of the PATH train, copy!
c. Male-“Ten-four. (Inaudible) to 63.” Female-“Yes.
d. Male-“See if you can make an announcement with PAPD with regards to people panicking in the PATH trains! Female-“That’s people by the PATH train, copy.”
PA transcript 048
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There was a partial collapse in the concourse after the south tower was hit, which trapped Will Jimeno, John McLoughlin & Co. A fireball accompanied the collapse. For the blast on the B4 level, read my Rodriguez paper, particularly Ed McCabe's account, who describes it happening about 30 seconds after he noticed the movement of the building. And note the damage there across the hall from the #50 elevator.

I'm quite eager to hear your explanation of where the high explosives were that you posit, and how your theory accounts for the witness stories, damage, and fireballs. Can't wait.

Edit: Oh, and people were panicking in and near the PATH trains because of all the kerosene smoke that came down the shafts. You can read about that...ah, you know where.

(I also STRONGLY suggest that you read the south tower accounts.)
 
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Swing Dangler said:
The events below took place prior to either collapse and after the explosion heard in the basement. This damage is inconsistent with a fireball. I do not have any figures, but I doubt the energy of the fireball could cause such destruction, hence the explosive device.
-----
PA 010 transcript.
PAPD Officer 33 responding to a Cave in at B-4
a. Location: Traveling to sub-level B-4, WTC North Tower
b. “Myself and (inaudible) to the Trade Center responding with scott packs to the B-4 Level. There’s a report of a cave-in and people trapped.”
c. PAPD Desk-“Roger, three three and eight-two Houston, World Trade responding B-4 level on a report of a cave in.
d. Officer 33- “There’s also been a cave-in at the platform of the PATH plaza…there’s a live electrical, and water running. Turn off the power in that area.
e. PAPD Desk reports to other responders-“Three-three is reporting that
there is a cave in, B-4 level, at the World Trade Center, copy? A possibility of people trapped."
---
Male caller to 310B Fire Command Radio Channel X-Security
a. Location-Near or on the Path Train
b. “Please let me get through! The PATH train, something is going on at the PATH train! Can you ask somebody to make an announcement, 310B, people are running out of the PATH train, copy!
c. Male-“Ten-four. (Inaudible) to 63.” Female-“Yes.
d. Male-“See if you can make an announcement with PAPD with regards to people panicking in the PATH trains! Female-“That’s people by the PATH train, copy.”
PA transcript 048
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Oh, I see. Your typos and grammatical errors made it difficult to comprehend what you were talking about when you mentioned a "cave in a B-4" and the "PATH plaza supports [Rodriguez's] statements."

I see now that you are talking about a report of a "cave-in" at the B-4 level and I will look at the transcripts, but how do you think a report of a cave-in supports Rodriguez's (belated) assertions about explosions occurring prior to the airplane striking the north tower and of explosions coming from below his location?

And how does a report of people running from a PATH train support Rodriguez's (belated) assertions of explosions occurring prior to the plane impact and from below his location?
 
Gravy, thankyou for the research you have done. I thanked you first at SLC but you must have missed it.

Second in regards to your paper you have this in Arthuro's account.:

'I don't know who saved me. It was so black and smoky. I couldn't see nothin',' Arturo said. 'When they got me out, I told them there was someone else down there, a woman. They went back to get her. Seconds after they pulled her out, a ball of fire came down the shaft. They almost got killed.'
911digitalarchiveorgseiudetails55

I had to change the link format that you have in your paper at the end of the quote because the forum won't let me post URL's because I'm a noob.

The link takes the reader to Daria Coard who discusses getting off the elevator on the 88th floor right after impact and then the elevator falls.
She then makes her way down to the ground using the stairways.
When finally able to exit the building, there was an explosion that threw Daria under a jeep. 'Bodies were dropping everywhere. Me and someone else saw a shoe under a piece of a car. So we lifted it up. And there was a leg with nothing else attached to it. There were strollers with babies in them turned on their side. I saw a rescue worker with his arm and shoulder blown off. He was screaming and running, and the policemen were trying to stop him to help him.
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I at first thought this explosion at ground level was the second impact, but she continues to see bodies dropping and people jumping and human damage. Also, could the second impact that far up cause her to be knocked under a jeep? I thought it might have been a collapse causing the explosion, but she mentions no collapse. Nor does she state how long it took to get to the ground from the 88th floor via the stairwell which brings the whole second impact into question. Could she be another victim of an explosive device at ground level?

Well anyway to make a long story short, I was wondering, Gravy, why you have that link with Arturo's description or was it an error?
Thanks for any response.
 
LashL said:
I see now that you are talking about a report of a "cave-in" at the B-4 level and I will look at the transcripts, but how do you think a report of a cave-in supports Rodriguez's (belated) assertions about explosions occurring prior to the airplane striking the north tower and of explosions coming from below his location?
And how does a report of people running from a PATH train support Rodriguez's (belated) assertions of explosions occurring prior to the plane impact and from below his location?
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I'm not arguing William's timing of impacts. I'm arguing that an explosive device was used by terrorists in the basement of WTC North Tower.
 
Swing Dangler said:
I'm not arguing William's timing of impacts. I'm arguing that an explosive device was used by terrorists in the basement of WTC North Tower.
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And by "terrorists" Swing means "US government demolition squads."

It's ok, dude...you can say it.
 
Quad4_72 said:
You don't have any figures is correct. You say that you doubt the energy of the fireball could cause the destruction. What is that based on? You don't have figures, so is it personal opinion? What qualifies you to make a credible opinion?
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Sorry for the confusion, yes, a personal opinion.

Actually, I was hoping to find some figures here supporting the contention that a fireball reached the b-4 levels to cause the ammount and type of destruction to the structure and the people after ignition upon impact.

Gravy, I did read Ed's account. He was told unignited fuel traveled down the elevator shaft and a spark ignited it. However, he witnesses a door being blown off, destroyed walls, and debris, but no fireball or secondary fires. The secretaries he comes into contact with state a bomb blew up in their office.

Sorry, I can't post links yet because I'm a noob.
 
Actually CHF, I have no idea or evidence of who would have placed an explosive device in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

But your attempt to distract the topic at hand is noted.
 
Swing Dangler said:
Actually CHF, I have no idea or evidence of who would have placed an explosive device in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

But your attempt to distract the topic at hand is noted.
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Out of curiosity, do you believe that there was an explosion in the basement of the towers? If so, what purpose did it serve in the collapse of the towers, seeing as how they fell from the top down?
 
Swing Dangler said:
Actually CHF, I have no idea or evidence of who would have placed an explosive device in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.
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If anything, I applaud your up-frontness. At least you admit you have a bucket of yuck when it comes to your claim, instead of screaming "IT'S OUT THERE" like every other truther out there
 
Swing Dangler said:
Sorry for the confusion, yes, a personal opinion.

Actually, I was hoping to find some figures here supporting the contention that a fireball reached the b-4 levels to cause the ammount and type of destruction to the structure and the people after ignition upon impact.
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Ah so you want to SEE figures. Why then have you formed an opinion before seeing any figures? Does that seem rational?
 
Swing Dangler said:
Actually CHF, I have no idea or evidence of who would have placed an explosive device in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

But your attempt to distract the topic at hand is noted.
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Oh come on now, Swing. You're a MIHOP demolition believer. Be proud of who you are!

Given that you think the towers were demolitions done with pre-planted bombs and thermite, are you suggesting that perhaps the US government (with bombs) and jihadi terrorists (planes and an explosive device) both attacked the same building on the same day?
 
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Quad4_72 said:
Ah so you want to SEE figures. Why then have you formed an opinion before seeing any figures? Does that seem rational?
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After reading the reports from people who experienced the event in the basement levels, examining the elevator shafts in graphics and from descriptions from NIST, viewing the initial impact, and considering the historical record of terrorists attacks against the WTC, I formed my opinion. Which is why I would like to see figures supporting the contention that a fireball was responsible for the event in the basement.
 
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