All 9/11 ideas welcomed here

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Oh any subforum would do, I just want to see you being the first person in history to prove a negative.

If you want to discuss it, start a thread in Religion and Philosophy and send me a link. Either way, drop it from this thread, it's a red herring by israelsides.

 

[Corsair 115]

Probability insists that some form of life supernatural exists, ghosts have been proven by the catholics, mediums and millions of known sitings.

Ghosts have been proven have they? Then in which scientific periodical may I read the article which puts forth the evidence for that claim? Evidence which withstood peer review?

The probablity of life existing on earth based on heat, water, oxygen is very small, the odds our kind exists somewhere else in our galaxy is limited aswell based on the size of other suns. This raises the probability of God exisiting, prophecies have come true based on biblical accounts and various others.

How exactly does the probability of an event have anything to do with proving or disproving the existence of God?

The Super 7 lottery here in Ontario has odds of 21 million to 1 against someone having successfully picked the correct 7 numbers out of 47 to win the full jackpot. I remember a draw last year in which there were two such winning tickets - an extremely unlikely event. Does this therefore prove the existence of God? Does it raise the probability of God existing?

...therefore God wrote the bible because the writings are based on evidence and truth prophecies.

God wrote the Bible? I thought people wrote the Bible. Granted, these folks were apparently listening to God as they transcribed what He was saying, but nevertheless it was people who wrote it down. So how do you eliminate the possibility that some of those human being who were writing down the Bible didn't mishear something God said? Or perhaps heard it right but wrote it down wrong? (And do I even dare raise the thorny issue of the many, many different translations there are of the Bible? Which translation is the correct one?)

The bible says killing is wrong (atleast from man to man) (killing is unjust aswell)...

You must therefore be a pacifist, yes? You must therefore be against war under any circumstance, yes? The commandment against killing does not list any exceptions or exemptions, it just says, "Thou shall not kill."

 

[CurtC]

Oh any subforum would do, I just want to see you being the first person in history to prove a negative.

In that same vein, no one can prove that there was no NWO involvement in 9/11, we can just present the evidence that indicates the most parsimonious explanation is that a link did not exist. Just like with God.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Anyone have a debunking for the new evidence surrounding professor Jones' findings?

They have a challenge for you!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/220507controlleddemolition.htm

A classic case of affirming the consequent, something Steven Jones is particularly good at. The reasoning goes something like this:

Thermate contains sulfur.
Samples from the WTC contain sulfur.
Therefore, the WTC was demolished by thermate.

An equivalent piece of reasoning would be:

Rotten eggs give off hydrogen sulfide, which contains sulfur.
Samples from the WTC contain sulfur.
Therefore, the WTC was demolished by being pelted with rotten eggs.

Basically there's nothing here to debunk.

Dave

 

[Belz...]

The Illuminati is a real group, maybe they don't exist anymore but they did at one time.

Just saying that they are real does not make it so. Do you have ANY form of evidence that they do ? If not, how can you claim that anyone's part of them ?

Probability insists that some form of life supernatural exists

Not really. It doesn't matter how many people believe in it or claim to have seen it. Only evidence matters.

ghosts have been proven by the catholics, mediums and millions of known sitings. The probablity of life existing on earth based on heat, water, oxygen is very small, the odds our kind exists somewhere else in our galaxy is limited aswell based on the size of other suns. This raises the probability of God exisiting, prophecies have come true based on biblical accounts and various others. This proves (atleast as much as we want to believe) that God exists...

Well that says a lot about your ability to form a rational thought. No wonder you're a truther.

therefore God wrote the bible because the writings are based on evidence and truth prophecies.

Now THAT is circular reasoning.

 

[israelside]

So, me challenging you to support your outrageous views really upsets you, doesn't it? Do you think it bothers me in the least?
Oh, can you link the Bavarian Illuminati to the present day? Your links say the conspiracy loons believe it, but again, belief is not proof. Lots of "alleged", "believed to be", absolutely no proof.
So, again, think you're up to the task? Come on, I'm willing to be convinced, but you have to come up with something a whole lot better than this nonsense!
Next thing, you'll tell me Oswald wasn't the lone gunman!

You're right Jim, I don't have conclusive evidence of these things but the fact that the B.I. bloodlines do include the rockefellers hints to the fact that they may hold secrets of upper establishment kings...why do you refuse and ignore any such scenarios? You like to think everything and everyone in the world is honest and good and their goals are pure, if anyone is naive it's you! Don't you realize how corrupt our govt is and the UN? I am still working on more evidence of things but you seem to refuse any evidence of corruption anywhere...but 90+ % of people now know that oswald was the patsy and another gunman was in the grassy knowl..everyone in my family believes it and no way JFK's head can fly backwards like it did in the car not to mention the "magic" lone bullet that did all that damage (and went different directions). Nostradamus did predict there would be a patsy and another man would escape free in JFK's shooting. Speaking about this is really a waste of time if you don't know the overwhelming evidence!

 

[gumboot]

You're right Jim, I don't have conclusive evidence of these things but the fact that the B.I. bloodlines do include the rockefellers hints to the fact that they may hold secrets of upper establishment kings...why do you refuse and ignore any such scenarios? You like to think everything and everyone in the world is honest and good and their goals are pure, if anyone is naive it's you! Don't you realize how corrupt our govt is and the UN? I am still working on more evidence of things but you seem to refuse any evidence of corruption anywhere...but 90+ % of people now know that oswald was the patsy and another gunman was in the grassy knowl..everyone in my family believes it and no way JFK's head can fly backwards like it did in the car not to mention the "magic" lone bullet that did all that damage (and went different directions). Nostradamus did predict there would be a patsy and another man would escape free in JFK's shooting. Speaking about this is really a waste of time if you don't know the overwhelming evidence!

Nostradamus?

-Gumboot

 

[Blackwell]

...Nostradamus did predict there would be a patsy and another man would escape free in JFK's shooting. Speaking about this is really a waste of time if you don't know the overwhelming evidence!

israelside, I thought you claimed to be a Christian? You do realize that believing in Nostradamus' predictions is against your religion, don't you?

 

[israelside]

A classic case of affirming the consequent, something Steven Jones is particularly good at. The reasoning goes something like this:

Thermate contains sulfur.
Samples from the WTC contain sulfur.
Therefore, the WTC was demolished by thermate.

An equivalent piece of reasoning would be:

Rotten eggs give off hydrogen sulfide, which contains sulfur.
Samples from the WTC contain sulfur.
Therefore, the WTC was demolished by being pelted with rotten eggs.

Basically there's nothing here to debunk.

Dave

Ok Dave, since you know alot about what was in the WTC or even building 7...what does thermate have in it that would distinguish it out from anything else in the buildings? If nothing, then could you have really prove thermate was in the building? NO i imagine...Where did sulfur exist in the buildings? I understand your logic and it makes sense but answer my question since you know alot about the situation.

 

[Disbelief]

Ok Dave, since you know alot about what was in the WTC or even building 7...what does thermate have in it that would distinguish it out from anything else in the buildings? If nothing, then could you have really prove thermate was in the building? NO i imagine...Where did sulfur exist in the buildings? I understand your logic and it makes sense but answer my question since you know alot about the situation.

Not being an expert, but I believe thermate has barium and there was not enough found on site to prove it was there. Also, wouldn't sulfur be in the drywall?

 

[JonnyFive]

You're right Jim, I don't have conclusive evidence of these things but the fact that the B.I. bloodlines do include the rockefellers hints to the fact that they may hold secrets of upper establishment kings...why do you refuse and ignore any such scenarios? You like to think everything and everyone in the world is honest and good and their goals are pure, if anyone is naive it's you! Don't you realize how corrupt our govt is and the UN? I am still working on more evidence of things but you seem to refuse any evidence of corruption anywhere...but 90+ % of people now know that oswald was the patsy and another gunman was in the grassy knowl..everyone in my family believes it and no way JFK's head can fly backwards like it did in the car not to mention the "magic" lone bullet that did all that damage (and went different directions). Nostradamus did predict there would be a patsy and another man would escape free in JFK's shooting. Speaking about this is really a waste of time if you don't know the overwhelming evidence!

Uh... do you have any evidence of any of your claims, including the one about "90+ % of people" knowing that Oswald was a "patsy?"

If so, could you please summarize it, maybe point us to a few well-researched web sites on this?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Not being an expert, but I believe thermate has barium and there was not enough found on site to prove it was there. Also, wouldn't sulfur be in the drywall?

Correct on both counts kitten-bo^h^h^h^h Disbelief.

 

[israelside]

israelside, I thought you claimed to be a Christian? You do realize that believing in Nostradamus' predictions is against your religion, don't you?

Many mysteries exist in the universe...no matter how Nostradamus got his prophecies doesn't matter, the fact if they come true or not is all that matters right? That's like saying an Atheist knew a car was coming straight at you and told you to move out of the way, but since he didn't believe in God I should just keep on walking and get hit. Sometimes people know things that don't believe exactly how we believe even if it's supernatural...I thought Nostradamus was a christian, maybe he just had a gift.

 

[JonnyFive]

Many mysteries exist in the universe...no matter how Nostradamus got his prophecies doesn't matter, the fact if they come true or not is all that matters right? That's like saying an Atheist knew a car was coming straight at you and told you to move out of the way, but since he didn't believe in God I should just keep on walking and get hit. Sometimes people know things that don't believe exactly how we believe even if it's supernatural...I thought Nostradamus was a christian, maybe he just had a gift.

You know what would really convince me? Posting a few of Nostradamus' prophecies that unequivocally predict something specific in the future, that can actually be attributed to Nostradamus.

None of this curve-fitting BS where you struggle to try to fit something that happened to a prophecy. Also, no making up Nostradamus quotes that sound better than the real ones.

 

[Corsair 115]

Many mysteries exist in the universe...no matter how Nostradamus got his prophecies doesn't matter, the fact if they come true or not is all that matters right?

Uh, considering that Nostradamus' predictions are written so vaguely that it relies on the reader to supply the interpretation as to what is supposedly being described, I think your claim that he accurately predicted anything is without much merit.

Now, if Nostradamus had written something like, "On the 11th of September in the new millennium, two great towers in the New city of York will crumble down in great clouds of smoke" that would be much more interesting, since it is at least contains some specific details.

Alas, he wrote nothing like this whatsoever. All his predictions require a great amount of interpretation on the part of the reader to discern.

 

[israelside]

You know what would really convince me? Posting a few of Nostradamus' prophecies that unequivocally predict something specific in the future, that can actually be attributed to Nostradamus.

None of this curve-fitting BS where you struggle to try to fit something that happened to a prophecy. Also, no making up Nostradamus quotes that sound better than the real ones.

You're right, alot of his predictions are vague and might be applied to alot of events but the one about hister and the one about JFK are specific and don't line up with much else of great magnatude...granted the one about hister (hitler) doesn't say his name outright but he was writing in another language and the translation may have missed it...too many things line up though to simple ignore it however

 

[CurtC]

You're right Jim, I don't have conclusive evidence of these things but the fact that the B.I. bloodlines do include the rockefellers hints to the fact that they may hold secrets of upper establishment kings...

I'll just ignore all the nonsense about Oswald and Nostradamus, although it does make me think that you are too far gone to save.

But about the Illuminati - can you see the glaring problem with your reasoning in just the sentence I quoted above? You don't have evidence that the Illuminati even exists, yet you state that it's a "fact" that the Rockefellers are in it. And then from that shaky start, you go on to assert that they may hold some kind of unspecified secrets.

Can you at least see the problem with that?

 

[Blackwell]

Many mysteries exist in the universe...no matter how Nostradamus got his prophecies doesn't matter, the fact if they come true or not is all that matters right? That's like saying an Atheist knew a car was coming straight at you and told you to move out of the way, but since he didn't believe in God I should just keep on walking and get hit. Sometimes people know things that don't believe exactly how we believe even if it's supernatural...I thought Nostradamus was a christian, maybe he just had a gift.

No, that's not all that matters, according to your god and your holy book:

http://www.watchman.org/na/psychicno.htm
http://www.gotquestions.org/psychics-Christian.html


ETA: I'm getting off topic here. If you want to know more about the "prophecies" of Nostra D, search these forums. Or start a new thread.

 

[israelside]

Uh, considering that Nostradamus' predictions are written so vaguely that it relies on the reader to supply the interpretation as to what is supposedly being described, I think your claim that he accurately predicted anything is without much merit.

Now, if Nostradamus had written something like, "On the 11th of September in the new millennium, two great towers in the New city of York will crumble down in great clouds of smoke" that would be much more interesting, since it is at least contains some specific details.

Alas, he wrote nothing like this whatsoever. All his predictions require a great amount of interpretation on the part of the reader to discern.

Ya, who couldn't believe that then, and then thousands of lives would have been saved....I do wish he would have spoken more clear, but given how close he was in alot of his predictions doesn't that raise atleat one eye brow? Maybe he just didn't know enough...doesn't mean it was wrong or he wasn't credible. I think alot of people in here are too narrow minded, sometimes you must think big..yes to prove something we must have alot of evidence but sometimes we need to connect the tots in order to make the picture make sense. That would never be the case to anyone in here...and that I think is yals mistake.

 

[JonnyFive]

You're right, alot of his predictions are vague and might be applied to alot of events but the one about hister and the one about JFK are specific and don't line up with much else of great magnatude...granted the one about hister (hitler) doesn't say his name outright but he was writing in another language and the translation may have missed it...too many things line up though to simple ignore it however

Could you perhaps post the predictions to which you refer?

I've seen the "Hister" one, although I don't think it clearly refers to Adolf Hitler. I have seen reference to the word also possibly referring to an area of the Danube, and it seems like a pretty round-about way to refer to the second world war.

That's the problem with Nostradamus. Everything is so vague it can refer to lots of things.

So what's the JFK prophecy? I haven't seen that one before.