Is Marijuana Harmless?

[joobz]

Ouch - seem to have touched a nerve... Mea culpa - I said it was a 'version' of salicylic acid, which was perhaps not precise enough. My point was that the 'original' was derived from a plant source, as is the case with many modern drugs.

Acetylating asprin allows it to be more clinically active with lower doses. The acetyl version isn't pharmacologically active until it is deacetylated in the cytosol where it gets converted back to the active salicylic acid (SA) form. This allows it to distribute throughout the body and be converted locally in cells where it can exert its function. This way, you don't need to overload the body and stress the clearance organs.

I do not think you touched any soft spot here. You were just clearly corrected by Drkitten. Simply, and several examples have been given, that the distinction between natural chemicals and man-made chemicals is a "man-made" distinction. the body doesn't care. You need to evaluate each on it's own terms.

 

[dlorde]

Becauase you haven't investigated just how unsafe the original version was. Kidney failure, for example, does not routinely happen as a consequence of taking a therepeutic dose of the synthetic version.

The 'raw' form became popular because it routinely caused kidney failure You'd think a few thousand years of routine kidney failure would put people off...

 

[Georg]

Then what's the point of asking:


Than what's the point of harping on the subject if it is only inspirational?
Anacedotes are anacedotes....

Your attitude hurts your case....whatever that may be.

So you still fail to show me where I stated what you claimed I did.
The question what my point is, is a completely different one. But to explain it again: It was simply to show that weed can be inspirational and therefore could have influenced the writings of Mr. Sagan. No more, no less. If you think that this point is not interesting at all, that´s absolutely O.K. Noone forced you to comment on it. But it makes no sense to attack arguments I never made just show your intellectual supremacy. Your attitude hurts your case, whatever that may be.

 

[Georg]

If pot became legal for medical use, it won't be in the joint or bong hit form. Most likely, it'd be in either a controlled dose liquid inhaler (like asthma medicine), a powdered inhalation/controlled delivery form (like the insulin inhalers coming to market), or even a buccal/sublingual dosage (like the quick disolve tablets or breathe strips).

Are you absolutely sure about that? Aren´t there a couple of states in the U.S. already where you can get weed for medical reasons without beeing punished? Aren´t there pharmacies in Netherlands where you can buy weed for medical reasons? I probably dreamed that.......

 

[joobz]

So you still fail to show me where I stated what you claimed I did.
The question what my point is, is a completely different one. But to explain it again: It was simply to show that weed can be inspirational and therefore could have influenced the writings of Mr. Sagan. No more, no less. If you think that this point is not interesting at all, that´s absolutely O.K. Noone forced you to comment on it. But it makes no sense to attack arguments I never made just show your intellectual supremacy. Your attitude hurts your case, whatever that may be.

I never claimed you made that state explicitly. I was just commenting on the silliness of the point in general. Inspiration isn't unique and isn't the exclusive domain of pot.

the thread went

Carl Sagan was a huge pothead.

I think it's obvious that he wasn't under the influence during the moments he was writing

But maybe it inspired him a bit?

[/quote=joobz]Probably inspired him about as much as me playing Puzzlequest on my DS has inspired my research.

It's an escape. A pleasurable activity to break the monotony. It can serve to aide in eureka moments, but that's not its function. Smoke if you want, but don't pretend it gives special powers. I think the lesson from Sagan (and many who posted here) is that responsible pot use doesn't significantly impact the productivity of individuals.[/quote]

take this thread and replace "pot" with "Gray's Anatomy."
Carl Sagan is a huge Gray's Anatomy fan.
I think it's obvious he wasn't watching it when he was writing
Probably inspired him abit.
Probably inspired him as much as me playing Puzzlequest....

The point is the same. there is nothing unique in grey's anantomy or pot to inspire. Neither of these two things are magical in that regard.

 

[joobz]

Are you absolutely sure about that?

yes

Aren´t there a couple of states in the U.S. already where you can get weed for medical reasons without beeing punished?

yes, but for hospice type care. and it is not FDA approved or regulated. I don't see FDA regulation relaxing on pharmaceutical formulations any time soon.

Aren´t there pharmacies in Netherlands where you can buy weed for medical reasons? I probably dreamed that.......

sure, but for similar indications as in the US and this isn't a procedure that'd be acceptable EU wide or in the FDA.

 

[Georg]

I never claimed you made that state explicitly. I was just commenting on the silliness of the point in general. Inspiration isn't unique and isn't the exclusive domain of pot.

snip

The point is the same. there is nothing unique in grey's anantomy or pot to inspire. Neither of these two things are magical in that regard.

The silliness of the point I never made. Isn´t that called a strawman?
Not magical? I didn´t say that either. So you were attacking me for things I didn´t write and didn´t mean. But if it makes you feel good.....
or even inspires you for your research.......Just go on, I can take it.

 

[joobz]

The silliness of the point I never made. Isn´t that called a strawman?
Not magical? I didn´t say that either. So you were attacking me for things I didn´t write and didn´t mean. But if it makes you feel good.....
or even inspires you for your research.......Just go on, I can take it.

nope. I did not attack you. I was critiqueing the whole point of pot being inspirational. I regret that you feel wronged by me for some reason. But I do not apologize for attacking you, because I did not.

 

[Lonewulf]

Stephen King never wrote stories while on pot?

Wait a minute...

How do you define "inspirational"? I listen to music that's inspirational to my creative process; sometimes I get inspired just by seeing a friend fighting another friend (for a fight scene or somesuch). Sometimes I get inspired watching the most ridiculous or stupid shows on television. Though I will agree that marijuana is not "magical" in that regard, no.

 

[joobz]

Stephen King never wrote stories while on pot?

Wait a minute...

How do you define "inspirational"? I listen to music that's inspirational to my creative process; sometimes I get inspired just by seeing a friend fighting another friend (for a fight scene or somesuch). Sometimes I get inspired watching the most ridiculous or stupid shows on television. Though I will agree that marijuana is not "magical" in that regard, no.

Oh no, pot can inspire, but it isn't unique to that. That was my whole and only point.

I'm actually for the legalization of pot, I'd just like to keep points in favor of legalization as clear and unbefuddled as possible.

 

[calebprime]

Stephen King: Experimented with LSD. Wrote early books addicted to cocaine. Drank. Not so much weed. --I think.

Marijuana has a completely different effect subjectively depending on how often you use it. Frequent users don't get the rush of tangential ideas and the "insights".

 

[Georg]

Originally Posted by Georg
Are you absolutely sure about that?

joobz: yes

Originally Posted by Georg
Aren´t there a couple of states in the U.S. already where you can get weed for medical reasons without beeing punished?

joobz: yes, but for hospice type care. and it is not FDA approved or regulated. I don't see FDA regulation relaxing on pharmaceutical formulations any time soon.

Originally Posted by Georg
Aren´t there pharmacies in Netherlands where you can buy weed for medical reasons? I probably dreamed that.......

joobz: sure, but for similar indications as in the US and this isn't a procedure that'd be acceptable EU wide or in the FDA.

You are definitely wrong on this one. It is not only for hospice type care in the Netherlands.
From the following link:

http://www.cannabisbureau.nl/eng/

About the Office of Medicinal Cannabis

The Office of Medicinal Cannabis is the organisation of the Dutch Governement which is respon
sible for the production of cannabis for medical and scientifical purposes.
The Office delivers medicinal cannabis of high quality. The office has the monopoly of the trade in cannabis. Due to an international treaty the Netherlands are obliged to or
ganize its Office this way. The OMC has also the monopoly on the import and export of cannabis and cannabisresin and the OMC decideds about the exemptions of posession of cannabis and cannabisresin.

snip


When am I being eligible for medicinal cannabis?
For medicinal cannabis you need a prescription from your physician. The OMC recommends that cannabis will only be used if existing treatments fail or show to many side effects. There are five illnesses for which the OMC recommends cannabis.



For what illnesses is cannabis recommended?
Cannabis reduces complaints of several illnesses, it does not heal or cure. Cannabis can reduce complaints with the following illnesses:
· MS (=multiple sclerosis) and damage to the spinal cord: pain and spasms;
· Cancer, HIV and aids: pain, nausea, diminished appetite, loss of weight and loss of concentration with cancer or aids. Cannabis can make you feel better;
· Nausea and vomiting because of treatment of cancer, HIV-infections or aids;
· Pain: chronic pain due to the nerve system;
· Tourette syndrome: cannabis can reduce tics.
The OMC recommends that cannabis will only be used if existing treatments fail or show to many side effects.

Snip

Is cannabis allowed for other indications than mentioned?
The Office of Medicinal Cannabis only advises to use the cannabis for the indications as mentioned in the information sheet. It is the responsibility of the physician to decide whether his patient should use cannabis for another indication than advised by the OMC (comparable to off-label use).

 

[Georg]

Canada, from the following link:

http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/healthquestions.html

Who is eligible to use medical marijuana?

The Health Canada regulations spell out three categories of people who can apply to possess marijuana for medical purposes.

Category 1: This category is for applicants who have terminal illnesses with a prognosis of a life span of less than 12 months. A medical practitioner must provide a medical declaration that states, among other things, that all conventional treatments have been tried or considered.

Category 2: This category is for applicants who suffer from specific symptoms associated with certain serious medical conditions, namely:
. Multiple Sclerosis: severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms;
. Spinal Cord Injury: severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms;
. Spinal Cord Disease: severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms;
. Cancer: severe pain, cachexia, anorexia, weight loss, and/or severe nausea;
. AIDS/HIV infection: severe pain, cachexia, anorexia, weight loss, and/or severe nausea; and
. Severe forms of Arthritis: severe pain and chronic pain.
. Epilepsy: seizures

Category 3: This category is for applicants who have symptoms associated with a serious medical condition, other than those described in Categories 1 and 2, where among other things conventional treatments have failed to relieve symptoms of the medical condition or its treatment. Declarations from two medical specialists must accompany the application.

Applicants must provide a declaration from a medical specialist to support their application. The declaration must confirm, among other things, that conventional treatments for symptoms have been tried or considered and were found to be medically inappropriate.

If you need a legal marijuana supplier for your Health Canada medical cannabis access application forms, please contact us.

CLICK HERE TO APPLY FOR LEGAL MEDICAL MARIJUANA USE.

Click here if you need a grower for your forms.

Need a legally authorized marijuana supply? Contact us here.

Click here for more information about the uses of medical marijuana.

So?

If pot became legal for medical use, it won't be in the joint or bong hit form.

Still absolutely sure about that?

 

[joobz]

You are definitely wrong on this one.

I misused Hospice in that instance. My apologies. I was refering to pain and nausea management in cancer patients, MS patients, etc. I again, do not doubt the advantages of THC as a therapeutic.

I state that the FDA will not approve such a difficult to control formulation as a joint.


The EU is currently working very hard at strengthing their drug approval process. The FDA had for a short time talked about reducing restrictions in the approval of new drugs, but after VIOXX, I can only guess that regulations will increase.

And, again, I ask, How will medical approval help recreational use approval? Unless you hope that it will become an OTC type medicine.

 

[joobz]

Still absolutely sure about that?

yup

--
ETA: I thank you for the links, however.

 

[joobz]

from the 1999 medical marijuana report.
http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/summary.htm

"Until a nonsmoked rapid-onset cannibinoid drug delivery system becomes available, we acknowledge that there is no clear alternative for people suffering from chronic conditions that might be relieved by smoking marijuana, such as pain or AIDS wasting...

Such delivery vehicles are actually quite possible. It's interesting that it hasn't been done yet....

 

[Georg]

And, again, I ask, How will medical approval help recreational use approval? Unless you hope that it will become an OTC type medicine.

I answered that before. What is a OTC type medicine?

 

[joobz]

I answered that before. What is a OTC type medicine?

over the counter. A lot of medications that are deemed relatively harmless, will be rescheduled (typically with a reduction in the dosage) for OTC use. Think of Prilosec, claratin,...

 

[Georg]

yup

--
ETA: I thank you for the links, however.

You´re welcome. How can you still be sure about it not beeing legalised for medical reasons in joint or bong form if there are at least two countries that already have such rules? Are you only talking about the U.S. or am I missing something?

 

[Georg]

over the counter. A lot of medications that are deemed relatively harmless, will be rescheduled (typically with a reduction in the dosage) for OTC use. Think of Prilosec, claratin,...

Ah, thanks. Don´t know Prilosec and claratin but I get the point. In Germany it´s not called OTC but directly translated prescription-free. I guess that is about the same.

ETA: good night. It´s almost midnight here, I´m off to bed.