Former truther here.....please don't eat me

The Great Hairy One said:
MM, can you explain further please? The NYFD and NYPD both were very concerned the building would come down, how did its collapse "go beyond any explanation the NYFD made"?
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The key is to look at the totality of what MM is claiming:
WTC7 collapsed symmetrically at freefall speed virtually into it's own footprint..not one firefighter was quoted as expecting that!
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MM seems to think that, unless they said, "We expect this building to collapse entirely, symmetrically, and into it's own footprint", that you cannot claim they expected it to collapse at all.

Of course, that's totally wacked, but that's the essence of his claim: if they didn't predict exactly what did happen, they couldn't have predicted anything at all.

What he doesn't realize (or at least, won't admit), is that you could make the same claim for any type of collapse. "No one specifically warned of a partial collapse! How could they know it wouldn't collapse completely?"


MM simply cannot admit that, while they didn't have perfect foreknowledge of how the collapse would progress, they still had a good idea that some sort of collapse was likely.
 
Horatius said:
The key is to look at the totality of what MM is claiming:

MM seems to think that, unless they said, "We expect this building to collapse entirely, symmetrically, and into it's own footprint", that you cannot claim they expected it to collapse at all.

Of course, that's totally wacked, but that's the essence of his claim: if they didn't predict exactly what did happen, they couldn't have predicted anything at all.

What he doesn't realize (or at least, won't admit), is that you could make the same claim for any type of collapse. "No one specifically warned of a partial collapse! How could they know it wouldn't collapse completely?"

MM simply cannot admit that, while they didn't have perfect foreknowledge of how the collapse would progress, they still had a good idea that some sort of collapse was likely.
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Oh, I'm well aware of this. I'm hoping that he'll provide some new, exciting information previously not seen by anyone. :D Eternal optimist, me. ;)

Cheers,
TGHO
 
I'd like to say welcome as well. Even though I'm New Blood when it comes to posting, I've been reading these boards for some time. Starting to read this thread and seeing the responses from scooby and miragememories, I was going to warn you that you might get a get a post from pagan calling you a Bush-lover. I was surprised to see pagan didn't even go to that trouble.
 
Congratulations on your recovery, jdhammer!

I have a friend who turned into a HARDCORE CTer lately. I try to tell her she can think for herself and check some of this stuff out, but I think she's too afraid.

I think that CTers actually are skeptics, but it's a very restricted sort of skepticism. They're really big on "asking questions", but if you ask the wrong questions, watch out. That's why I think they're just a cult. They have their own mythology, produced by talking heads like Alex Jones.

The ones who really DO "think outside the box" eventually realize that it's all paranoia, and that their "movement" isn't "moving" anywhere.
 
CurtC said:
So you're this jdhammer? (had to remove URL due to post count)Welcome.

It takes huevos to evaluate your position honestly, change your mind, and admit you were wrong. I kind of envy that.
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:o That's me.....

I'm glad someone could find an old post of mine. Kinda helps back up my story for those who weren't so sure......

And don't get me wrong. It was extremely difficult to go from one end to the other. I mean, there was a point where I knew I was wrong, but it took a while for me to accept that I was and to commit myself to the right side. I think one of the posters on this thread put it best - Sometimes the only reason you believe is because you WANT to believe. There's a certain excitement behind being involved in something as explosive and sexy as the 9/11 conspiracy.....too bad it just doesn't make any sense......
 
Miragememories said:
'Toe the line' and you will do well here jdhammer.

When in doubt just resort to 'troofer mockery' and the gang will applaud you. It's what they do best.

<snip>

MM
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It's true, that when you're genuinely wrong, or even possibly wrong, about something, the other posters here will call you out on it. I have myself had to admit to being mistaken from time to time. But the good news is that you've already made the first step, in admitting you had been wrong previously, and that bodes well for you in the future. My own mantra here is that I would rather be corrected than to continue to be wrong, about anything.

Of course, if you're confronted with the possibility of being wrong, and don't believe that you are, be prepared to back up your position with some verifiable data, and if you do, even the people who disagree with you will respect you.
 
greetings jdhammer!

smart people can be fooled. it's not tough to convince people that you're conclusions are correct if you LIE about the evidence. the 911 truth movement lies to its audience.

those that discover the lies right away have it easy. those that are sucked into the CT have it much more difficult. i think it says a lot of your committment to the truth that you are willing to admit that you were wrong. many can't do it. it's not easy, but it's a very important skill to everyone who isn't initially correct 100% of the time.

i was also posting at the LC forums waaaay back in the day. i'd like to think i remember you, but i may be fooling myself. not that tough to do, really...

take care, and thanks for the post,
anthony.
 
Welcome jdhammer! Seems that I'm a little late to the party, but what the hey.

Be assured - no one here (no one respectable here, anyway) will mock you for having once been a part of the truth movement. You will likely be (it is happening at the moment in fact) flooded with responses, and I dare say many queries as to why you left the truth movement. This is because for many of us here it is difficult to understand what goes on in the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

Enjoy the forums - be assured that the other subforums here are very different to this one. It is he nature of the conspiracy theory beast.

A word of warning - while the CT subforum may seem like a walk through a dark alley at night, the politics subforum is a walk through a dark alley at night with a hundred dollar note taped to your jugular.

And by the way, I've nominated your MM smackdown for a new award that has just been thought up (regarding intentionally humourous and witty statements).

Check out The Stundies too, if you have time.

Peace Out

M7
 
Welcome JD,

There are some CTers who come here and want to attack Gravy (aka Binglybert Slaptyback), because they think he is our leader (despite the fact this is the James Randi Eduactional Foundation). While Gravy is certainly one of the more high-profile debunkers of 9/11 myths, and has done more research into the inaccuracies of LC, he is not our "leader." You will find that in any given thread there are people from many different educational backgrounds and experiences, who can answer most questions about 9/11 (or any subject) or can point you to a place where you can find it yourself.
 
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CHF said:
A missile hit WTC7????

Please....can we get some better opposition already?
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Of course it was a missle.

They just made it look like pieces of the towers hit it after the fake holographed airplanes didn't hit the towers and the detonations went off (that surprisingly made NO noise on explosion, and NO ONE was suspicious about all the workers that spent weeks wiring the buildings while people were working there)

Its so simple to be a toofer, just toss out the rational part of your brain and accept any 'evil gubmint' bs that some uneducated slob that lives in his parent's basement throws out.
 
jdhammer said:
:o That's me.....

I'm glad someone could find an old post of mine. Kinda helps back up my story for those who weren't so sure......

And don't get me wrong. It was extremely difficult to go from one end to the other. I mean, there was a point where I knew I was wrong, but it took a while for me to accept that I was and to commit myself to the right side. I think one of the posters on this thread put it best - Sometimes the only reason you believe is because you WANT to believe. There's a certain excitement behind being involved in something as explosive and sexy as the 9/11 conspiracy.....too bad it just doesn't make any sense......
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Here's what appears to be your exit post:

Almost all of you, if not all of you, will ignore this and write me off as just another sheep or something like that. I expect it and I understand it. For any of you, though, who feel the same way I started to feel a few weeks ago (which is "Geez, they have some good points but it's 90% retards here") I suggest you spend some time NOT posting on the boards and just watch like I have been for a little while. Watch every new post come up that elaborates on some infintessimally miniscule little thing and blows it up to reveal that WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE GOVERNMENT DID IT.

"Obviously speaking about the towers at WTC". WTF????? Really????? If it's so obvious, why will 99.9999% of the world disagree with you? BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO BE TRUE. You want it to be true SO bad that you'll forego all common sense and just say things that don't add up.

I'll be watching the Truth Movement, and I'll be supporting it, although not here. These message boards mostly are a poison to the Truth Movement. Lynch me for saying it, but so is LC2E. EVEN THOUGH I'm saying that, I'm screening it at my school's film club that I run. However, it will be blasted out of the sky (mostly, anyway) by a PHD in Philosophy who I'm having speak beforehand to make sure no one gets brainwashed by the material like I was for a short while.
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Obviously not 100% debunker at that point, but making strong progress. You are no longer part of the dork side of the farce.

:jrefwelcome
 
Axiom_Blade said:
I think that CTers actually are skeptics, but it's a very restricted sort of skepticism. They're really big on "asking questions", but if you ask the wrong questions, watch out.
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hmmm. interesting

are you saying there are certain questions that I can ask (or that can be asked to me) that would take the twoofer out of me?

awesome! plz PM me those questions or post them i need to know. while I am in twoofer mode I am sad and afraid (because I think the government and certain big corporations are evil, and i think fluoride and monosodium glutamate and Mercury are deadly poisons yet they still put it in water and food and vaccines).

I would love it if you could tell me how to take the twoofer out of me, so i could go back to loving the government and certain big corporations and being happy and calm while they put those "nutritious elements" in my water and food and put genetically modified "completely safe" crops and cloned meats in my grocery store.
That would certainly allow me to sleep better at night I must admit. If you can help me, ! sweet.
 
oahuoahu, someone who puts the name of my home to shame, if you're not here for constructive debate, then there is no sense in you posting here. You are now on ignore; and make me ashamed that you dare to malign my great home state and home island, with the postings you make here.
 
im don't think i'm trying to debate. a debate implies that i'm trying to prove something wrong or right.

im just here to get the twoofer taken out of me. supposedly a few questions can do it.

im not talking about 9/11.

im talking about monosodium glutamate, fluoride, mercury, genetically modified crops (some with human genes in it), and cloned meat being safe for humans. are they?
 
Unfortunately, for some people, there is very little hope.

MSG is really only bad for people who have an allergy to it, by the way. Not that you should overindulge in any one thing.
 
oahuoahu said:
hmmm. interesting

are you saying there are certain questions that I can ask (or that can be asked to me) that would take the twoofer out of me?

awesome! plz PM me those questions or post them i need to know. while I am in twoofer mode I am sad and afraid (because I think the government and certain big corporations are evil, and i think fluoride and monosodium glutamate and Mercury are deadly poisons yet they still put it in water and food and vaccines).

I would love it if you could tell me how to take the twoofer out of me, so i could go back to loving the government and certain big corporations and being happy and calm while they put those "nutritious elements" in my water and food and put genetically modified "completely safe" crops and cloned meats in my grocery store.
That would certainly allow me to sleep better at night I must admit. If you can help me, ! sweet.
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No your 100% correct.

'They' are out to get you.

All the genetic food, its not for better food free of various natural organisms or diseases, or to boost vitamin and nutrient content, or to alter crops to grow where they usually would not, or to grow without as much water for people in dryer continents for people who need food...no no no!

Its to get you! YOU! To convert you to a droid for the NWO to experiement on you!

How about you go live as a caveman. Live in the past when people lived a long and prosperous 20-30 years! A Time when the common cold wiped out many! Yeah! those were the times!
 
oahuoahu said:
im don't think i'm trying to debate. a debate implies that i'm trying to prove something wrong or right.

im just here to get the twoofer taken out of me. supposedly a few questions can do it.

im not talking about 9/11.

im talking about monosodium glutamate, fluoride, mercury, genetically modified crops (some with human genes in it), and cloned meat being safe for humans. are they?
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What exactly are you trying to prove with this little performance?
 
oahuoahu said:
im don't think i'm trying to debate. a debate implies that i'm trying to prove something wrong or right.

im just here to get the twoofer taken out of me. supposedly a few questions can do it.

im not talking about 9/11.

im talking about monosodium glutamate, fluoride, mercury, genetically modified crops (some with human genes in it), and cloned meat being safe for humans. are they?
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Are you that crazy hippie that was on Penn and Teller?
 
No your 100% correct.

'They' are out to get you.

All the genetic food, its not for better food free of various natural organisms or diseases, or to boost vitamin and nutrient content, or to alter crops to grow where they usually would not, or to grow without as much water for people in dryer continents for people who need food...no no no!

Its to get you! YOU! To convert you to a droid for the NWO to experiement on you!

How about you go live as a caveman. Live in the past when people lived a long and prosperous 20-30 years! A Time when the common cold wiped out many! Yeah! those were the times!
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ok i am not too smart. i had to try hard but i think you were using sarcasm... errr... ok you answered the genetically modified question for me now im wondering about mercury

is mercury nutritious, safe, deadly, or does it do nothing bad?
 
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