Let us have a fact check.

Without Rights said:
The bombs wouldn't be on walls and on peoples desks, they would be behind the wall placed on the steel beams. I bet nobody saw any steel beams while they where being evacuated either, does that mean there weren't any?
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I was in the WTC. You can't get to the steel beams without going through the walls. No one had access to the steal beams. They would have had the ability to go through walls without anyone seeing them. This didn't happen. So your idea is b.s.
 
Let's try some really important facts the CTers constantly fail to take into account:

Fact: Except in certain special situations, such as a jury room or voting booth, different people's ideas, views, opinions, and conclusions are not equally relevant.

This is for many reasons, one of them being that people differ in their ability to form ideas, views, opinions, and conclusions that are consistent with reality.

Fact: The relevance of an opinion is not increased by the degree to which the opinion differs from others' opinions.

If an opinion lacks relevance for some reason, such as being unsupported by evidence, the amount by which the opinion would shake the foundations of prevailing belief if it were true, does not make up for that lack.

Fact: Lacking sound reasoning based on sound evidence may or may not make CTers opinions wrong. But it definitely makes them irrelevant.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Without Rights said:
And the instructors said they could barely fly a cessna.

The FBI says they have no evidence that OBL was connected to 911. That means that the video is suspect. It doesn'e even look like OBL.
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You need to check the story yourself on hani. The instructor said hani would have no problem flying the plane as seen on 9/11. Do you need more help believe of cherry picked quotes used to support LIES.

Here let me show you how this works. Truth movement said HANI can not fly good enough to do Pentagon! Right this is you!

Facts are next, you asked for them here they be!
The instructor really said!
...he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.
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Could you be right he can not fly, but the instructor adds his expert opinion!
Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said.
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Too bad, Hani is good enough to hit the Pentagon as they did. And he did just as the Instructor said, got in a plane already flying up in the sky, no skill just flying along, even you could do it. I was an Air Force Instructor pilot I have to agree in all my 34 years of flying if you were to pick a 757/767 they are very easy to fly in great weather.

Let me give you some back ground on flying. If I go anywhere and want to rent a plane I go to the service, they have to fly with me. If I show any problem at all they will give me more time in type until they are satisfied I can fly that plane. I may be rusty if I finally show proficiency they let me rent. If I do not they will not rent even if I have 30,000 hours of flying, or 600 like HANI. Is that 600 more hours than you have flying, just from HANI?

So your Hani can't fly story is WRONG. Because you did not find the real facts on the case. Wrong is everything you will find at the Truth Movement! They are late and they are wrong. You are being lied to and fooled. You are a patsy of the truth movement.
 
fact: There no bombs in any builing in the WTC complex.

fact: PAL conversion NTHS makes people seem fatter

fact: OBL, KSM and the 19 hijackers all said they were going to attack the US and than did. OBL and KSM have since admitted doing so after the fact.
 
Without Rights said:
Actually it says passengers. Wouldn't they have been passengers? Did they sneak on the plane?
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]


After the Columbine murders many lists of the dead did not include Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Does that mean the were not in the building or that they didnt die?
 
Hammer_of_Thor said:
]


After the Columbine murders many lists of the dead did not include Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Does that mean the were not in the building or that they didnt die?
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you see, that would make sense but thae fact is Columbine was a governent conspiracy to give Michael Moore work. Just like 9/11 !
 
Without Rights said:
If steel performs poorly in conditions of fire then alot of steel structures would collapse because of fire.
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Why do you think fire-proofing is required?

Throughout history steel structures have performed just as designed regardless of size of the fire.
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Not true. You just need to look to your Holy Windsor Tower for proof of that. The steel members of the building subjected to the fire did in fact fail.
 
chipmunk stew said:
You really should read the responses people give you.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77984
http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/abdulaz...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/ahmed_a...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/khalid_...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/mohammed_atta_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/said_al-ghamdi_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/salem_a...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/wail_al...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_...ill_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/mohand_...ill_alive.html


That's a victim's list, genius. It's not a flight manifest.

Edit:

These are flight manifests:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight11Manifesta.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight11Manifestb.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight11Manifestc.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight77Manifesta.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight77Manifestb.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight93Manifesta.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Flight175Manifesta.jpg
Click to expand...

So where is the manifest, hidden from public scrutiny. Used in secret military tribunals?
 
 
Without Rights said:
Show me the facts is a common statement made here against so-called truthers. Lets reverse the roll shall we?

What are the facts that prove the Government's account?

I have asked several times but never get a response, so maybe a thread dedicated to the facts will finally get an answer.
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Fact: I was on top of WTC 2 a few months before it was hit (May, 2001).

On the elevator going up to the top, I asked the guide to stop the car and boost me up so's I could open the ceiling hatch on the elevator and have a look-see. She complied (the customer is always right and all that). I had me my look-see. I saw thermite. I saw RDX. I saw alarm clocks, some ticking. I saw blasting caps, and baseball caps hanging on nails with "Shadow Governments Do It In The Dark" on the visors. However I saw no one clinging to the shaft walls wearing fedoras or trenchcoats.

Conclusion: 9/11 was NOT an inside job. Shafts don't lie, and neither do I (hey that rhymes).
 
slugmancs said:
Without Rights said:
The bombs wouldn't be on walls and on peoples desks, they would be behind the wall placed on the steel beams. I bet nobody saw any steel beams while they where being evacuated either, does that mean there weren't any?
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Thought we were dealing in facts, not delusions. [...]
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Hah. "It's a fact that it's possible! Anything is possible!"

He may be Without Rights, but he obviously has plenty of wrongs...
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Why do you think fire-proofing is required?


Not true. You just need to look to your Holy Windsor Tower for proof of that. The steel members of the building subjected to the fire did in fact fail.
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Shucks--these folks are so sold on videos--Just go watch the opening credits of "Hellfighters" starring John "Duke" Wayne...
And I guarantee that the beams and girders on an oil drilling rig are hell-for-stout!
 
Without Rights cannot be convinced of facts. I learned this very quickly on a thread about income tax. Even in the face of the law, he remained a case study of the CT/Tax Protester Syndrome.
 
Without Rights said:
So where is the manifest, hidden from public scrutiny. Used in secret military tribunals?
Click to expand...

The NWO has developed a high-tech lackwit-absorbing coating for them, and has taken the extra step of hiding them behind symbolic "keys" that look nothing like the images or files they "unlock." But if you stand on one foot and cover one eye whole blinking the other as fast as possible while left-clicking randomly on your monitor screen, you may just be able to make them out.
 
Why do you think fire-proofing is required?
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So the whole govt story is dependent upon the unknown theory of fire-proofing blowing off the building.

Not true. You just need to look to your Holy Windsor Tower for proof of that. The steel members of the building subjected to the fire did in fact fail.
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Let's see, hmm the winsor fire


WTC fire




Winsor "collapse"




WTC collapse




Yeah I see your point.
 
Without Rights said:
So the whole govt story is dependent upon the unknown theory of fire-proofing blowing off the building.


Let's see, hmm the winsor fire
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_15017460aaed694caf.jpg

WTC fire

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_15017460aaed6b2a72.jpg


Winsor "collapse"

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_15017460aaed6e1ea9.jpg


WTC collapse


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_15017460aaef516422.jpg

Yeah I see your point.
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Fallacy via false analogy.

Comparing buildings with wildly different constructions is erroneous. This is just another example of a well-documented flaw in the conspiratorial groupthink. This issue has been covered ad nauseum and in great detail, and like all conspiratorial lines of inquiry, it fails gloriously under the slightest scrutiny.

Under scrutiny, the parts of the windsor tower that are most comparable to the WTC1/2/7 acted in a very similar fashion to WTC1/2/7. When you take the time to examine the evidence, in detail, the Windsor tower actually supports our point of view, and hurts yours. But CTers don't examine evidence critically, so they never realize that.
 
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Gravy said:
The NWO has developed a high-tech lackwit-absorbing coating for them, and has taken the extra step of hiding them behind symbolic "keys" that look nothing like the images or files they "unlock." But if you stand on one foot and cover one eye whole blinking the other as fast as possible while left-clicking randomly on your monitor screen, you may just be able to make them out.
Click to expand...

Cute, but what about souces that are not biased. If I post pro-911 sites it is a sin. 911myths.com is an a-ok one. Sure your not biased.
 
Without Rights said:
Cute, but what about souces that are not biased. If I post pro-911 sites it is a sin. 911myths.com is an a-ok one. Sure your not biased.
Click to expand...

I reject the notion that bias is even relevant. Facts are facts, and only rarely are the facts in dispute (ie, a single anonymous source in an Indian newspaper blaming Pakistan).

We attempt to explain all evidence by trying to properly interpret it given the best working hypothesis and the scientific realities. CTers reject evidence that doesn't fit their hypothesis with ridiculous reasons like "oh the FBI found that, do you believe everything the government tells you".

The difference between interpreting and incorporating the evidence and outright dismissal is one of the fundamental differences between conspiratorial psuedoscience and what the rest of us do.
 
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