Let us have a fact check.

[defaultdotxbe]

I don't wonder why nothing. I love Jesus Christ and I always will. I say it proudly. So I can compare you to satanists, after all, they don't believe in God or the devil either.

i must admit, i am very impressed you actually know this

 

[Cuddles]

It may not be conspiracy related but I think

I can compare you to satanists, after all, they don't believe in the devil.

certainly deserves a nomination.

 

[uk_dave]

I thought the whole point of being a satanist was to believe in the devil...well that and the naked orgies in the moonlight and the goats.

I may have to give up my membership now.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

I thought the whole point of being a satanist was to believe in the devil...well that and the naked orgies in the moonlight and the goats.

I may have to give up my membership now.

a satanist is likely an atheist or perhaps deist and doesnt believe in any form of afterlife, once your dead, your dead, so while your alive you should enjoy yourself, typically through unencumbered practice of the seven deadly sins, because of this anti-christian stance they have adopted satan to symbolize their rejection of christianity

"where christianity is abstinence, satanism is indulgence"


ironically, this once again goes to show how common sense often gets things wrong

 

[Pardalis]

I think he confuses satanism with atheism.

 

[JimBenArm]

So, Without Rights, may I now conclude you are without honor as well? There still isn't a hint of an apology for the vile comment about Mark Bingham's mother. I think it's obvious you have maturity and anger control issues.
Don't expect this will do anything more than get another angry response, but needed to point out your behavior.

 

[Cuddles]

a satanist is likely an atheist or perhaps deist and doesnt believe in any form of afterlife, once your dead, your dead, so while your alive you should enjoy yourself, typically through unencumbered practice of the seven deadly sins, because of this anti-christian stance they have adopted satan to symbolize their rejection of christianity

"where christianity is abstinence, satanism is indulgence"

ironically, this once again goes to show how common sense often gets things wrong

Well, I was an atheist, but that sounds much more fun. Do we still get the orgies even without the devil being involved?

 

[CurtC]

I thought the whole point of being a satanist was to believe in the devil...

The term "satanism" is pretty broad. I can mean a worship of the Christian idea of the Devil, but most commonly it's used to refer to Anton LaVey's religion described in The Satanic Bible, which doesn't actually believe in a malevolent deity, but mocks Christianity by indulging in the things they perceive as evil.

 

[Daald]

Do you ignore the fact that the top section leaned sideways. That takes away from you downward force. But that is convienently left out of all the equations. And the core, never addressed what happened to it.

Dude....seriously. Physics 101.

Hint: There is no switch for gravity. It is always there. You can only fight it with an upward force.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Certain doom makes you forget that you mom knows you by first name?




Point?



15% of the top 1)weighed much less then the 85% 2)shattered into dust 3)tilted to the side. But yet came down with amazing force to crush 90 floors of concrete and steel in a close to freefall manner. That has yet to be explained by any of you, or NIST or FEMA.




So if I drop my bologna sandwich it is dynamic? Where did dynamic force come from? The top section just fell with the force of gravity on the lower undamaged sections and caused a pancake collapse that obliterated all the concrete. So what happened to the core?




Blow me




That is not what I'm doing. I am saying there are other possibilities, making the opposing statement, not a fact.

We might have to create a separate award just for the stupidest statement that Without Rights has posted.

 

[Belz...]

If it was the unique design of WTC1/2 that caused them to fall, what about building 7. It was a different design, was it also a shotty design as I heard someone say about 1 & 2.

You may have noticed a giant skyscraper falling onto it.

Certain doom makes you forget that you mom knows you by first name?

It makes you do a number of things that may not make sense in hindsight. I find it highly dubious that you doubt the veracity of this phone call based solely on the fact that this man, with certain death waiting just a few minutes away, idenfitied himself to his mother with his full name.

Point?

Scale, Rights. Scale.

The WTC towers were 110-storey tall. That's not the same as a house, even if the materials were the same. If anything, the towers are more prone to collapse.

15% of the top 1)weighed much less then the 85%

Why yes, yes it did. What's your point, and how does weight come into the equation ? Oh, wait. Did you skip your science classes ? Because velocity INCREASES the force of a moving object. That 15% might as well be 1500.

2)shattered into dust

Lie.

3)tilted to the side.

Irrelevant.

But yet came down with amazing force to crush 90 floors of concrete and steel

Yes.

in a close to freefall manner.

"Close" to freefall ? When is that one going to get old, with you guys ?

That has yet to be explained by any of you, or NIST or FEMA.

No, it hasn't. No structural engineer worth his salt doubts that, once the collapse was initiated, global collapse was inevitable. Only ignorant laymen such as you (and notice, I said IGNORANT laymen, not just laymen, like me) doubt this, because their ignorance is used as a shield, armour and sword.

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of, Rights.

 

[Belz...]

So if I drop my bologna sandwich it is dynamic?

Yes. Yes it is.

Where did dynamic force come from?

Gravity.

The top section just fell with the force of gravity

Yes, exactly.

on the lower undamaged sections and caused a pancake collapse that obliterated all the concrete. So what happened to the core?

It broke apart, like the rest. Haven't you seen the pictures ?

Blow me

At this distance, it would be rather difficult, not that I'd want to do that, unless of course you happen to be a very, very hot single woman, preferably childless.

That is not what I'm doing. I am saying there are other possibilities, making the opposing statement, not a fact.

Yes, that is the definition of speculation.

 

[Belz...]

Do you ignore the fact that the top section leaned sideways. That takes away from you downward force.

No, it doesn't. You're just making the laws of physics up as you go.

I don't wonder why nothing. I love Jesus Christ and I always will.

Well I don't. Can we get on with this debate, theist ?

So I can compare you to satanists, after all, they don't believe in God or the devil either.

See ? This is why you guys aren't getting anywhere. If you're sufficiently ignorant to think that a SATANIST doesn't believe in the DEVIL, who happens to also be called SATAN, then it's no surprise that you know nothing of elementary physics, as well.

Santanist.

Those, however, are much more fun. Especially the little elves and madam Santa.

I wouldn't put on a disquise in order to chat with a bunch of fanatical, self-centered sadists trying to validate their own belief that they are smarter that everyone through the buddy system.

Well, this won't earn me any kudos this month, but I don't give a rat's ass about anyone's opinions, here. I go with the facts; oh, and you should visit the politics section and see how much of a merry bunch of groupies we really are.

Kissing eachothers asses like a bunch of fags.

Homophobic, as welll ? Well you're scoring points for the afterlife, aren't you ?

**** You

Not unless you're that hot single chick I talked about.

 

[negativ]

Well, I was an atheist, but that sounds much more fun. Do we still get the orgies even without the devil being involved?

Sure, you can do that, but you might find that "Bob" gives you a much better excuse, which is what everyone really wants, anyway.

 

[Hokulele]

I suggest you take your debates to the politics forum. You can articulate, discuss and argue your beliefs to your hearts content. Facts and evidence in politics are not quite as important. Here, when someone without the education and knowledge makes comments as though they do, they end up looking pretty foolish.

You can argue the merits of the Patriot Act, Iraq war, taxes, etc. with your opinions, but your opinions don't get very far trying to argue physics, science and math. Clearly you're out of your element here and show no interest in trying to learn.

Politics Forum is the place for you.

He tried, it didn't work out so well (for him).

 

[Hamradioguy]

A lot of steel structures HAVE collapsed because of fire-That is a fact. And firefighters have died- well before 9/11 because of this. That's also a fact. You seem to be sadly lacking in knowledge of how steel buildings behave in fire conditions.

So here are two questions for you, Without Rights:
1. Have you read Francis Brannigan's "Building Construction For The Fire
Service"? (And if not, will you do so?)
2. Are you willing to discuss collapse of steel structures with Vince Dunn,
retired FDNY Division Commander who has written extensively on this
subject? (I'll even provide his toll free number for you: 800-231-3388.
Tell him an Assistant Chief with 42 years experience suggested you
call him.)

I've asked the same questions of other CTers and none have followed through for some reason. Are you willing to be the exception, Without Rights?

So, Without Rights, have you obtained a copy of Brannigan's book, and have you called Chief Dunn yet?

 

[EternalSceptic]

Many people have already revealed your complete lack of understanding about this event, at any level, so there is nothing further to add, other than this.

I find your statement about the mother of Mark Bingham despicable, I do not say this because I disagree with your theories, and I say this as a human being. Your statement is shameful and if you had any ounce of humanity and dignity you would retract it immediately.

It is terrible. Let me say it in the words of a german author (forgot who)
"I can't eat as much as I want to vomit"

'nuff said.

 

[EternalSceptic]

Yup. I see that all the time. I'm sure to tell folks this upfront when they are trying to decide between conventional framing and trusses. When they are weighing the benefits, I always mention the limitations of future expansion.

I also see plenty of folks who just cut or drill when faced with plumbing and ventilation hits. The building inspector always makes them get a 'repair', even when they remove as little as a 1/4" of material.

The problem seems to be, that very few people have no Idea about simple mechanics. Just an example:

In my residence I was taking down and rebuilding a small house with a one-sided roof. the angel was about 45 degrees and it's size about 4 by 5 meters. It was supported by walls on the high and low side with two 6 by 6 inches wooden posts laying flat on top of the walls and the upgoing posts were cut to fit the horizontal posts. Several of my friends who visited me whe I was working were asking me if the sidewards load of the roof would not be too strong for the walls. (which maybe "common sense" suggests)

_But there is no sidewards load_. The situation si exactly the same as if you put a wooden chair o a stair cutting it's legs so that it stands upright. No horizontal force at all.

Agreed, the upper block of WTC tilted before the collapse. But as long as the centre of gravity remains above the ground plane this does not mean very much. The block will have some rotational motion, but when it starts to go down it will depend on the resistance of the material below how it will go on further.
The truthers seem to assume, that this block must continue to rotate and fall off sidewards.

"Common sense" is IMO one of the worst tools for drawing conclusions.

 

[EternalSceptic]

15% of the top 1)weighed much less then the 85% 2)shattered into dust 3)tilted to the side. But yet came down with amazing force to crush 90 floors of concrete and steel in a close to freefall manner. That has yet to be explained by any of you, or NIST or FEMA.

May I invite you to a cheap and siple experiment:

Take an average hammer (abt 250 grams)
Gently put it on your bare foot.
Note the feeling.
Now call the ambulance (DONT FORGET THAT)
As soon as you hear their car:
Lift the hammer above your head - this is about 2 meters, half of the height of a WTC storey.
Drop the hammer down on your bare foot.
Note the feeling and compare it to the first one.
(The ambulance people will take care of the rest)