Can this qualify as a challenge?

[Davide]

Good Advice

... successfully passing my test will really raise your "chops", as it were, in the eyes of a lot of people around here. So are you still willing to ask her to provide you with my five numbers? The envelope is still on my tchotcke stand, and Loss Leader still has them, so they're still valid for an attempt.

PC,

This is very good advice from Jackalgirl. I strongly endorse it for exactly the reasons she gives. I hope you will take it.

Passing an informal but reasonably controlled test like this would make many people in these formus, and, I think, JREF sit up and take notice. Plus, it would be so simple for you to do.

 

[Moochie]

Dear Jackalgirl and Fellow Forumers,





I firmly believe in what the spirit can do that is why I was bold enough to apply for the Challenge. Mrs. Alvaran may have some hesitancy just like when the spirit first appropriated her body in 1957. But I have experienced and seen wonders what the spirit can do. I have cited to you some of them which are in my website.

I do not want to make money this way although it is tempting as I am about to retire and still have a mortgage to pay. I firmly believe that He will provide but I think it will not be through this Million Dollar Challenge. That is why this morning, it came to my mind that any prize money that may be due to me, I will donate to a charity or charities. The spirit can tell us which one(s).

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

Better get a wiggle on and get that Peace Crusader Charity organized then, mate.

M.

 

[colin]

PC,

This is very good advice from Jackalgirl. I strongly endorse it for exactly the reasons she gives. I hope you will take it.

Passing an informal but reasonably controlled test like this would make many people in these formus, and, I think, JREF sit up and take notice. Plus, it would be so simple for you to do.

Ya PC, SHOW US THE MONEY!

 

[Czarcasm]

Is the application valid if the major participant(Mrs. Alvaran) has yet to agree to be tested? I didn't know you could fill out applications for other people without their knowledge.

 

[Davide]

Probably will end up being a moot question

Is the application valid if the major participant(Mrs. Alvaran) has yet to agree to be tested?

It's a valid question, but my guess is that, in the end, the answer won't matter.

If PC gets her agreement when he talks to her, I can't imagine the JREF weaseling out of a valid test solely because PC didn't get the complete agreement of his helper before sending in his application. Remember, the MDC is a PR and educational tool for JREF. Not going forward would look pretty bad and would be counterproductive.

If he doesn't get her agreement, he won't be able to do a test of any substance, so the whole application will fall apart. Just as many others have before.

I'd bet on the latter outcome, but I'd love to be surprised.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Is the application valid if the major participant(Mrs. Alvaran) has yet to agree to be tested? I didn't know you could fill out applications for other people without their knowledge.

It's a valid question, but my guess is that, in the end, the answer won't matter.

If PC gets her agreement when he talks to her, I can't imagine the JREF weaseling out of a valid test solely because PC didn't get the complete agreement of his helper before sending in his application. Remember, the MDC is a PR and educational tool for JREF. Not going forward would look pretty bad and would be counterproductive.

If he doesn't get her agreement, he won't be able to do a test of any substance, so the whole application will fall apart. Just as many others have before.

I'd bet on the latter outcome, but I'd love to be surprised.

The major participant is always the applicant himself. I repost Jeff Wagg's PM to Jackalgirl, I highlighted the essential section:

"As for the challenge, yes, a third party could be used as a tool.

Claim: I can read numbers on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

Setup: A box will be placed in a safe with 5 random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all 5 numbers right, 10 times in a row, I win. If I get any numbers wrong, I lose.

Conditions: I require an assistant to be present with me.

That's a pretty simple, straightforward challenge there and it meets all our criteria. If the assistant is channeling a spirit, that's fine. As we always say, we don't care how it's done."

PeaceCrusader applies, JREF accepts the application, a protocol is negotiated, success and failure are determined, test date set, PeaceCrusader puts his claim to a preliminary test, test result is ???

It's PeaceCrusader's claim, PeaceCrusader's application, PeaceCrusader's protocol negotiation, PeaceCrusader's test, PeaceCrusader's result.

How he gets it done is entirely up to him and irrelevant to the procedure. As long as he does not cheat; which I consider very unlikely.



For the protocol, PeaceCrusader: I would be willing to discuss the origin of the "spirit" if you complete the JREF Challenge successfully. But only then.

 

[Czarcasm]

I guess you're right, but it seems to me that for this particular test Mrs. Alvaran is essential and PeaceCrusader is replaceable, not the other way around, unless I'm totally misunderstanding which one is going to providing the info to PeaceCrusader(i.e. Mrs. Alvaran's "spirit").

 

[Cuddles]

I guess you're right, but it seems to me that for this particular test Mrs. Alvaran is essential and PeaceCrusader is replaceable, not the other way around, unless I'm totally misunderstanding which one is going to providing the info to PeaceCrusader(i.e. Mrs. Alvaran's "spirit").

True, but from the JREF's point of view it doesn't matter. The application will say that PeaceCrusader can find out what is in the boxes. The JREF doesn't care how he claims to do it. From PeaceCrusader's point of view it is a very important question, and presumably he will have to drop out if she doesn't agree, but for the JREF is really doesn't matter. Consider Mrs. Alvaran as a perpetual motion device. If PeaceCrusader applied saying he could demonstrate perpetual motion, it would really be the device doing it. The JREF doesn't care if that device is used or if he comes up with an entirely new device for the actual test. All that matters is that the original claim of demonstrating perpetual motion is tested. Back to the actual claim, all PC is saying is that he can find out what is in the boxes, the JREF doesn't care if he uses Mrs. Alvaran or someone else entirely, all the care about is testing his claim.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,

The major participant is always the applicant himself. I repost Jeff Wagg's PM to Jackalgirl, I highlighted the essential section:

"As for the challenge, yes, a third party could be used as a tool.

Claim: I can read numbers on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

Setup: A box will be placed in a safe with 5 random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all 5 numbers right, 10 times in a row, I win. If I get any numbers wrong, I lose.

Conditions: I require an assistant to be present with me.

That's a pretty simple, straightforward challenge there and it meets all our criteria. If the assistant is channeling a spirit, that's fine. As we always say, we don't care how it's done."

PeaceCrusader applies, JREF accepts the application, a protocol is negotiated, success and failure are determined, test date set, PeaceCrusader puts his claim to a preliminary test, test result is ???

It's PeaceCrusader's claim, PeaceCrusader's application, PeaceCrusader's protocol negotiation, PeaceCrusader's test, PeaceCrusader's result.

How he gets it done is entirely up to him and irrelevant to the procedure. As long as he does not cheat; which I consider very unlikely.



For the protocol, PeaceCrusader: I would be willing to discuss the origin of the "spirit" if you complete the JREF Challenge successfully. But only then.

Mrs. Alvaran may have hesitancy regarding this Challenge just like when the spirit first appropriated her body in 1957. But I firmly believe in the spirit. I know He can easily do it. During our sessions, I have noticed what He can do, e.g. there is sometimes as if paper that He is reading with the sound of paper, but after the session, Mrs. Alvaran does not have any paper in possession at all. Or He may be relating to us of what was happening that very moment in another part of the world while He was having a session with us.

Mrs. Alvaran's hesitancy may be due to the fact that she may not have experienced some tangible proofs like what the spirit has done to me. It is because of these tangible proofs that last week, I made the decision to be the applicant, especially with Jackalgirl's and Jeff Wagg's suggestion. In the end, it will be the spirit's decision. Mrs. Alvaran and I will just follow what the spirit says. I will inform you of the results of my discussion with the spirit and Mrs. Alvaran, maybe while I am still in the Philippines or soon after I arrive back to Australia from my trip.

I firmly believe that the spirit will agree to this because it may be a part of His overall plan. I guess I have a part to play in that plan, like the adoption by the whole world of the Aristean calendar as its new calendar and some other things for peace to reign in this world. He has told us of things that will happen to me which I will not reveal yet until they are fulfilled. They are unbelievable, and to me, impossible. When they happen, then I will present my evidences, such as the tape recordings and testimony of some listeners (if they remember them).

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Czarcasm]

O.K. Cuddles, makes sense to me.
The main glitch, of course, is that he doesn't own this particular "Perpetual Motion Machine"-he hasn't even gotten permission from it's actual owner to use it in this test.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,



Mrs. Alvaran may have hesitancy regarding this Challenge just like when the spirit first appropriated her body in 1957. ...

Okay, let me just restate the protocol questions:

1) Did you propose the test that Jeff outlined in his email? If so, what are the details? Who has the safe? Who is determining the numbers? How are the numbers going to be determined? What controls are in place to prevent cheating, either on your part or the part of the tester (i.e., video cameras? etc)? Is there a neutral third party? How are you going to be notified that the box setup is ready, and how are you going to communicate each set of numbers? Etc...

2) Are you doing some other test in involving ten boxes? If so, how will that work? Same subquestions as above (who, how, etc.)

3) Are you still going to attempt to determine the five numbers I have handy?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
He has told us of things that will happen to me which I will not reveal yet until they are fulfilled. They are unbelievable, and to me, impossible. When they happen, then I will present my evidences, such as the tape recordings and testimony of some listeners (if they remember them).
...

It works exactly the other way around, PeaceCrusader: First the prophecy, then the event.

Otherwise people - e.g. me - will suspect you simply make stuff up to fit your needs. If you believe in the spirit, why not present your tapes now, albeit in another thread in the "Religion & Philosophy" subforum? If you believe in "Him" what would you have to lose? (This is, of course, a rhetorical question.)

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Jackalgirl and Fellow Forumers,

Okay, let me just restate the protocol questions:

1) Did you propose the test that Jeff outlined in his email? If so, what are the details? Who has the safe? Who is determining the numbers? How are the numbers going to be determined? What controls are in place to prevent cheating, either on your part or the part of the tester (i.e., video cameras? etc)? Is there a neutral third party? How are you going to be notified that the box setup is ready, and how are you going to communicate each set of numbers? Etc...

2) Are you doing some other test in involving ten boxes? If so, how will that work? Same subquestions as above (who, how, etc.)

3) Are you still going to attempt to determine the five numbers I have handy?

The contents of the cover letter of the application is in my post on March 23, 2007. Part of the letter states:

"I have the ability to communicate with a spirit. The spirit can convey to me the numbers that He reads on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

The box will be placed in a safe with five random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all five numbers right, ten times in a row, I win. If I get any number wrong, I lose.

I require the presence of an assistant by the name of Mrs. Maria Liwayway Alvaran of Fernando Vergel de Dios Street, Barangay Concepcion, Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines whose body the spirit appropriates.

Other details of the test procedure are to be negotiated between JREF and myself."

The details have not been worked out yet. But I find many of your suggestions, Jackalgirl, can be adopted for this Challenge. We can all together prepare a procedure that will be fair and fool-proof.

Regarding your and Loss Leader's secret five random number, I will ask the spirit when I talk to Him if He agrees and let you know ASAP.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,

It works exactly the other way around, PeaceCrusader: First the prophecy, then the event.

Otherwise people - e.g. me - will suspect you simply make stuff up to fit your needs. If you believe in the spirit, why not present your tapes now, albeit in another thread in the "Religion & Philosophy" subforum? If you believe in "Him" what would you have to lose? (This is, of course, a rhetorical question.)

Regarding some prophecies about me by the spirit, I don't want to reveal them yet, otherwise, you may charge me of whatever.

However, I have mentioned to you some which the spirit said will happen: babies born with three eyes, baby born with horns, human being giving birth to kitten and cat giving birth to human being, World War III will start from the Philippines (at Spratly Islands in particular).

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[chillzero]

OK, I want to ask some questions here, but I can't find a way to word them without it seeming as if I am trying to mock or bait PC, which I'm not.

I guess I'll just ask them, and deal with any criticism as it comes.

During our sessions, I have noticed what He can do, e.g. there is sometimes as if paper that He is reading with the sound of paper, but after the session, Mrs. Alvaran does not have any paper in possession at all.

Have you ever looked under the table/in a close room/in any cupboards in the room?

There have been other posters here who fear that you are being taken for a ride by this woman, and you should ensure you take what setps you can to rule out any tricks.

Mrs. Alvaran's hesitancy may be due to the fact that she may not have experienced some tangible proofs like what the spirit has done to me.

What more tangible proof do you think this woman would need, after being physically taken over and used by this spirit?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,



Regarding some prophecies about me by the spirit, I don't want to reveal them yet, otherwise, you may charge me of whatever.

However, I have mentioned to you some which the spirit said will happen: babies born with three eyes, baby born with horns, human being giving birth to kitten and cat giving birth to human being, World War III will start from the Philippines (at Spratly Islands in particular).

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

Charge you of what exactly?

PeaceCrusader, a meaningful prophecy includes three specifica: Date, location, type of event.

 

[Jackalgirl]

...The contents of the cover letter of the application is in my post on March 23, 2007. Part of the letter states ...

...The details have not been worked out yet. But I find many of your suggestions, Jackalgirl, can be adopted for this Challenge. We can all together prepare a procedure that will be fair and fool-proof.

Gotcha -- and I'm sorry for having missed the application post; I do tend to skim over things to quickly. I understand that you haven't actually worked out the details -- fair enough. Keep us updated, and I'm sure that there will be enough people here ready to help you work out any details with which you think you might need some advice. : )

Regarding your and Loss Leader's secret five random number, I will ask the spirit when I talk to Him if He agrees and let you know ASAP.

Roger that, too, and I'll try to be patient. Though if "the spirit" (sorry I have to use the quotes, but I'm still skeptical) doesn't want to do the test, I'd be curious to find out why, especially since my test is substantially easier than the one you proposed to JREF (you're only required to provide 5 out of 5, not 50 out of 50 in five-number batches). I'll also be extremely interested in whatever requirements "the spirit" will have regarding the particulars of the test, assuming "the spirit" agrees to it. Which -- I have to tell you, PC -- I think is highly unlikely. Though I could be wrong!

 

[Doc Daneeka]

Dear Yairhol and Fellow Forumers,



Did this killing of the first-born Egyptians occur? I believe so. The plague passed over the Israelites. That is why the Israelites have been celebrating the Passover Festival for over 3000 years despite invasion of Israel, their exile to Babylon, their dispersal to different places by the Romans, the Holocaust. This festival is the living proof that it did happen.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

Interesting viewpoint. In China, they celebrate Qi Zi every year. Is this living proof that a goddess formed the milky way in anger? Do tell.

Regardless, I reiterate my statement on this matter: I am willing to bet a goodly sum of money that the 'spirit' either won't choose to cooperate (approx. 90% chance), or will get it wrong.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Fellow Forumers,

I will be departing for the Philippines in a few hours time. On Sunday, April 1, 2007, I will be able to talk to the spirit. Sometime early next week when I find an Internet cafe, I will update you of the results of our discussion. I hope for a favorable reply.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Jackalgirl]

Dear Fellow Forumers,

I will be departing for the Philippines in a few hours time. On Sunday, April 1, 2007, I will be able to talk to the spirit. Sometime early next week when I find an Internet cafe, I will update you of the results of our discussion. I hope for a favorable reply.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

Have a safe trip, PC! Looking forward to hearing from you next week. : )