Can this qualify as a challenge?
- Thread starter PeaceCrusader
- Start date
Wait a minute: It was you who opened this thread, PeaceCrusader, and it was you who proposed the test with the 25 sealed boxes.
Since the evidence gained from the proposed tests would not, what evidence would convince you to doubt the existence of the "spirit" or even "Jesus"?
zombiebex
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Because it bears repeating... Matthew 24, NIV:
4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
...
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
...
23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
...
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
...
23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
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Dear PC,
This is a really big step forward. I'm impressed.
As Thabiguy has noted, many people talk about applying but few actually do. I'm convinced that most often they don't because they know deep in their hearts that their claim is not true. Agreeing to go through with a fair test, as you have, very clearly separates those who are sincere from those who are not.
I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your work in a few weeks.
Sorry to be so late getting back, PC. No, I haven't won the lotto -- I've actually been earning money the old-fashioned way, by working for it.
Meanwhile, I wait with bated breath for your mate to tell me what my 6 out of 45 picks are.
Somehow, I feel very positive that I will not be eating feces, my own or anyone else's, in my life. OTOH, the possibility that you might be consuming some pie, humble or otherwise, in the not too distant future, came to me in a dream...
Keep on truckin'
M.
CynicalSkeptic
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That, and I'm anticipating some sort of time limit. i.e. the number will be generated by [some method], then sealed in an envelope, and locked in a safe. At that time, a clock is started, and the spirit will have [some number of minutes/hours/days] to determine the numbers, and inform his channeler, who will then notify the applicant, who will then inform the judges.
Well, it did take him 11 years to be convinced, I suggest that it should also take 11 years of failure to lose his faith.
I think he's the one who has been deceived. But maybe I'm just being naive.
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Fellow Forumers,
Today, Sunday, March 25, 2007, 8:30 PM in Australia, I was able to talk to the daughter of Mrs. Alvaran. She said that her mother will be unable to travel so I think the tests have to be done at her home, i.e. the boxes may be at a distant place and she and I will be at her home. When the spirit appropriates her body, the spirit will give the numbers inside each of the ten boxes.
I will be discussing the details with her when I see her this coming weekend. I will inform you of any development.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Today, Sunday, March 25, 2007, 8:30 PM in Australia, I was able to talk to the daughter of Mrs. Alvaran. She said that her mother will be unable to travel so I think the tests have to be done at her home, i.e. the boxes may be at a distant place and she and I will be at her home. When the spirit appropriates her body, the spirit will give the numbers inside each of the ten boxes.
I will be discussing the details with her when I see her this coming weekend. I will inform you of any development.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Jackalgirl
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PC, will Mrs. Alvaran be willing to determine the five numbers I generated (and that Loss Leader also holds)?
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Zombiebex and Pro7 and Fellow Forumers,
I have mentioned before that it took me eleven years before I accepted that the spirit we talk to is Jesus Christ. I am not trying to deceive any of you. I do not force you to believe what I believe in.
I know what the Bible says about believing in spirit that is why I have been very cautious that I even directly asked the spirit in about mid-1980s how could I know that He is the true Ama (God the Father in Pilipino) and not the other spirits who present themselves as Ama also, one in the town and the other in the village where we lived. His reply to me was to scrutinize what He says and I would know who He is.
What do you think differentiate the true God from the false gods? Logic, please, without citing any of the holy scriptures of any religion.
I have also mentioned what triggered off my believing in Him. You may see the following files in my website (attach the files to the home page URL):
amapix.jpg, signs.htm, post049.htm, jesus888.htm
1 John chapter 4 of the Bible tells us how to distinguish a good spirit from an evil spirit. I would like to ask you: Are ALL spirits evil? That we have to ignore ALL of them? Are archangels Michael and Gabriel evil spirits? Is the Holy Spirit an evil spirit?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Pro7 said:
I have mentioned before that it took me eleven years before I accepted that the spirit we talk to is Jesus Christ. I am not trying to deceive any of you. I do not force you to believe what I believe in.
I know what the Bible says about believing in spirit that is why I have been very cautious that I even directly asked the spirit in about mid-1980s how could I know that He is the true Ama (God the Father in Pilipino) and not the other spirits who present themselves as Ama also, one in the town and the other in the village where we lived. His reply to me was to scrutinize what He says and I would know who He is.
What do you think differentiate the true God from the false gods? Logic, please, without citing any of the holy scriptures of any religion.
I have also mentioned what triggered off my believing in Him. You may see the following files in my website (attach the files to the home page URL):
amapix.jpg, signs.htm, post049.htm, jesus888.htm
1 John chapter 4 of the Bible tells us how to distinguish a good spirit from an evil spirit. I would like to ask you: Are ALL spirits evil? That we have to ignore ALL of them? Are archangels Michael and Gabriel evil spirits? Is the Holy Spirit an evil spirit?
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
PeaceCrusader
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Dear Jackalgirl and Fellow Forumers,
It is not Mrs. Alvaran who can determine the numbers you generated. It is the spirit. I believe that He knows what they are. I can tell you that the the spirit knows who Jackalgirl is, where she lives, when she was born, who her parents are, etc.
But let us wait until the tests are over. If the spirit can give the correct numbers (total 50, that is five numbers per set times ten sets, as against 25 items with one item in each box), how much more can He know anything. Remember, with the true God, nothing is impossible which to us, humans, may be impossible.
This time, nobody is killed and nobody dies, unlike during the time of Moses when all first-born Egyptians were killed around midnight, just to demonstrate that the God of Moses is the true God.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
It is not Mrs. Alvaran who can determine the numbers you generated. It is the spirit. I believe that He knows what they are. I can tell you that the the spirit knows who Jackalgirl is, where she lives, when she was born, who her parents are, etc.
But let us wait until the tests are over. If the spirit can give the correct numbers (total 50, that is five numbers per set times ten sets, as against 25 items with one item in each box), how much more can He know anything. Remember, with the true God, nothing is impossible which to us, humans, may be impossible.
This time, nobody is killed and nobody dies, unlike during the time of Moses when all first-born Egyptians were killed around midnight, just to demonstrate that the God of Moses is the true God.
Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
yairhol
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PC, you are not correct in saying that all first-born Egyptians were killed around midnight just to demonstrate that the God of Moses is the true God.
God told Moses to free the people of Israel from Slavary forced on them by the Egyptians. After the Egyptian Pharoh refused to free them, god started the 10 "curses" (they were not exactly curses but I don't know how to call them in English). After each "curse" the Pharoh was given the chance to free the Israelites but did not do so. Only after the last "curse" which was that all first born Egyptian son was to be killed, did he finally free the Israelites.
The curses were not given to the Egyptians in order to prove that god is the real god but to free the people of Israel.
Please be more accurate in the future when stating the bible.
Thank you,
Yair
God told Moses to free the people of Israel from Slavary forced on them by the Egyptians. After the Egyptian Pharoh refused to free them, god started the 10 "curses" (they were not exactly curses but I don't know how to call them in English). After each "curse" the Pharoh was given the chance to free the Israelites but did not do so. Only after the last "curse" which was that all first born Egyptian son was to be killed, did he finally free the Israelites.
The curses were not given to the Egyptians in order to prove that god is the real god but to free the people of Israel.
Please be more accurate in the future when stating the bible.
Thank you,
Yair
Oualawouzou
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The mind boggles.
How do you prove there is a God, period? Without citing any of the holy scriptures of any religion.
The argument is flawed from the start. I'm surprised.
PC,
You personally might or might not learn something reliable about yourself, Mrs. Alvaran, and the spirit from the 50-numbers test. The reliability of what you learn depends critically on many details of the test, including how the numbers are generated, who knows what they are before the test, who is present at the test, what the spirit is asked, how the results are recorded, and how they are checked. The reason all of these and other details are important is that humans can easily fool themselves and others, often quite innocently, and sometimes to defraud one another.
I want to be sure you understand that because everyone here knows people can fool themselves and others, passing the 50-number test won't impress the people on this forum. We all know that details such as those I outlined are critical and that, for the 50-number test, none of us here know them. Having the spirit provide the list the five numbers Jackalgirl Loss Leader are holding would be a much stronger test in my view. And I'm sure others here would agree.
If you wish to push us down the road toward believeing what you believe about the spirit, carrying out the 5-number test would be much more effective than the 50-number test.
Yair, I think the word you're looking for is "plague".
PC, why can't the "spirit" pop out Jackalgirls's handful of numbers right now? That would really knock our socks off! Surely the Christ can spare a few seconds to show us heathens the "True" path.
PC, why can't the "spirit" pop out Jackalgirls's handful of numbers right now? That would really knock our socks off! Surely the Christ can spare a few seconds to show us heathens the "True" path.
I allow myself to ask again, PeaceCrusader: Have you contacted Mrs. Alvaran yet (before you sent the application) and got her and the "spirit's" approval to cooperate on the test, i.e. have you specifically asked her to work with you for the purpose of the Million Dollar Challenge?
Jackalgirl
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Semantics.
Not too difficult to find out, with some skillful Web access and record searches. All of this data is available in the public domain. So it would not suffice as proof of anything other than good search skills.
Okay, so as I understand it: my numbers (the 5 that I generated) are no longer in play in favor of an actual JREF test. Fine with me. Good luck!