Can this qualify as a challenge?

[yairhol]

Czarcazm,
I respect PeaceCrusader for being a gentleman in his debates and keeping it in a mannerly fashion. This is not obvious when it comes to people who are very religious. These people usually want to MAKE you believe in what they believe in and would stoop to any means necessary in order to do that.
I also expect him to go through with the test which means to first apply before the 1st of April.
After the test results are confirmed, I expect him to either go home smiling and start preparing for the final test or if he fails admit his faith in the 'spirit' was not based on 'facts' and that there is no 'spirit'.

Anyone know what the status with his application is?
Has he filed one?
Is he in the Phillipines now?

Regards,
Yair

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Czarcasm and Fellow Forumers,

You don't get to be the "applicant" until you "apply". You must submit a properly filled out "application" first.

Tonight, I sent the following email to Jeff Wagg:

Dear Jeff,

In your previous email to me, you mentioned that
"receiving information from a spirit is testable, but
this information (dates when Jesus Christ was born and
crucified and died that the spirit revealed which I
initially thought as the challenge) is not." You
asked if I can "receive information about sealed
boxes."

My inquiry is being discussed in the JREF "Million
Dollar Challenge" under the topic "Can this qualify as
a challenge?". Some forum members suggested that I
email you and inquire if I can be the applicant and
the woman by the name of Maria Liwayway Alvaran be
part of the "machinery". The spirit who we call Ama
appropriates the body of the woman and uses it to talk
to, or converse with, the people.

The woman will act as my assistant and when the spirit
of Ama is in her body, the spirit will provide the
information needed which I will relay to the JREF
representatives, e.g. the contents of the sealed
boxes.

Your early response to this inquiry will be much
appreciated as I would like to beat the April 1
deadline when the rules of the challenge are changed and
take effect.

Thank you very much for your kind help.

Very truly yours,

Aristeo Canlas Fernando

If he says that I can be the applicant, I will sign the application form asap, attach a brief description of the demonstration, have it notarized and post it. I hope I receive a favorable reply.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Loss Leader and Fellow Forumers,

Would you call my faith "blind faith"?

Yes.

You have demonstrated that there is nothing you will not do to preserve your faith. You have changed prophesies after the fact. You have rewritten definitions of words. You have ignored simple math. You have made excuse after excuse. This is what people with blind faith do.

You told us that this spirit had been incarnated into an Egyptian princess and you told us she was the daughter of a king. When challenged, you restated that she might have been the daughter of a governor. That is not what you originally said. How could the Lord God not know the difference between a king and a governor? How could the Lord God not know that "Gotacural" would be called "Aids?" Why do you have to make excuses for God?

Let us put it this way. You claim that I am changing the prophecies after the fact. How about if I say that you do not want to admit that the prophecies are fulfilled by giving such reason, for example, as the spirit did not actually name the disease as AIDS. I asked you possible fulfillment of the prophecies but you claimed that it may be something that will still happen in the future. How far into the future? It has already been 27 years since they were revealed. Many of the prophecies were fulfilled in the 1980s, such as in 1980 was when John Lennon was killed by a madman; 1981 was the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan by a madman; 1982 was the intrusion into Queen Elizabeth's bedroom at Buckingham Palace by a madman; the Lebanon War and Falkland Islands War in 1982; etc. etc. Who can give such 19 prophecies and be right, I believe, in all of them.

It seems that even if the spirit is able to identify the contents of sealed boxes or your number tests, still you may not believe that the spirit involved is Jesus, or even deny that there are spirits.

I have answered this twice already. This will be the third time: All that a successful test will prove is that information can be transferred without using energy. This will convince me that the universe has a God but will tell me nothing about Jesus, the literal truth of the Bible, or even whether God was the one who performed the test.

When I turn on the tap in my home and the water is cold, that doesn't prove it's winter.

I have stated that the spirit we talk to is Jesus Christ Himself. It is this spirit who can tell us the contents of sealed boxes, and even the numbers that Jackalgirl generated which you have been entrusted to confirm.

Pardon me if I will not be able to participate as frequently as possible in this forum for I am preparing for my departure for the Philippines next week.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[zombiebex]

PC, sweetheart...

If you are so willing to rationalize and believe vague predictions like the onles you listed despite our repeated explanations of them and how they can be interpreted to mean anything, then you are willing to rationalize away your mediums inevitable failure.

I'm going to ask a few yes or no questions, and I'd like you to answer them honestly and subjectively, okay?

1. Is there at all any possibility whatsoever that this woman is a superb actress?

(There have been countless mediums who use a variety of methods to fool a customer, from something as simple as changing their voice to cracking their toes on a metal rod concealed under the table. Also, you say this woman doesn't speak English, but why doesn't Christ speak English? Or Aramaeic? Or in tongues, for that matter?)

2. Is there at all any possibility whatsoever that you and/or Christ speaking through a random, unknown woman in the middle of nowhere are interpreting these prophecies to fit reality after the fact?

(As stated many many times before in this thread, these are the most general of prophecies. They have been made countless times before by other so-called prophets. The trick to them is: they will always be right. Can you name an example of how they could really and truly ever be wrong?)

3. What you know of Christ, his teachings, and the Bible, do you think this is how He would choose to come back?

(After all, you've listed Him coming back to Egyptians that would pre-date his first coming. Even the Bible says when Christ returns: "Look, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him." When Christ returns, we all will know it. There will be no questioning, no doubting. What else does it say? A much more important point is made in Matthew, in Jesus' own words:

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ! or 'There He is! do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There He is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here He is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.")

You seriously need to ask yourself these questions and not just dismiss them out of hand. Otherwise you're deluding yourself and opening yourself up to be manipulated by what appears to all of us (who have seen this sort of thing many times before) to be nothing more than a con-artist.

I ask if you reply to this message, you answer these questions and not just repeat what you've said before, as nothing you've yet said has convinced a single one of us.

 

[ben m]

Who can give such 19 prophecies and be right, I believe, in all of them.

PC, you believe that the only answer to this question is "only Jesus".

If you look around, you will see that the answer is "pretty much anyone".
Here's some random consultant in South Carolina, http://www.spiritualconsultations.com/predict2004.html, who (perfectly accurately) predicted "financial trouble for airlines" and "controversy over gay rights" in 2004-2006. Here's some random astrologer, http://www.astrofuturetrends.com/id80.html predicting that the 2008 election will feature national-security issues. Here's some random psychic http://www.drturi.com/eclipse_predictions.php predicting "negative news from exotic places with drugs activity and disappearing people". Here's a psychic, http://www.dajuana.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=11, making predictions for the southern US: "An air accident happens with a number 6 and an “L” or “M” around it. Maybe rain has something to do with it. Train passage or something that looks like a train will have problems in the southwest. Another school in New Mexico, Colorado or Arizona is in the news." (Sure enough: I find record, already, of a Cessna crash (1 fatality) in Lago Vista, TX with plane number N1162M, a 20-car train derailment (no injuries) in southern California ...)

And so on. PC, making correct predictions of this type is extremely easy. I can do it. You can do it. Anyone on this forum can do it. Hundreds of random Web pages can do it. It's not a skill unique to Jesus.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Jeff gave me permission to post his reply, so here it is:

As for the challenge, yes, a third party could be used as a tool.

Claim: I can read numbers on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

Setup: A box will be placed in a safe with 5 random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all 5 numbers right, 10 times in a row, I win. If I get any numbers wrong, I lose.

Conditions: I require an assistant to be present with me.

That's a pretty simple, straightforward challenge there and it meets all our criteria. If the assistant is channeling a spirit, that's fine. As we always say, we don't care how it's done.

Hope to hear that your App is in soon, PC. Good luck!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Fellow Forumers,

It is now Thursday, March 22, 2007, 7:00 pm in Australia. I just read the reply of Jeff Wagg and it is favorable. Here is what he stated in his email:

"Yes, a third party is fine. April 1 is the deadline."
He added the following link: @http://www.randi.org/research/

Jeff Wagg
JREF

I will sign the application tonight. I hope I get an appointment with a Notary Public tomorrow or on Saturday to have the application notarized and mail it to JREF asap. I hope it reaches the JREF office on or before April 1.

I will inform you of any further development of this application.

Best regards,
Aristeo

Dear Czarcasm and Fellow Forumers,



Tonight, I sent the following email to Jeff Wagg:

Dear Jeff,

In your previous email to me, you mentioned that
"receiving information from a spirit is testable, but
this information (dates when Jesus Christ was born and
crucified and died that the spirit revealed which I
initially thought as the challenge) is not." You
asked if I can "receive information about sealed
boxes."

My inquiry is being discussed in the JREF "Million
Dollar Challenge" under the topic "Can this qualify as
a challenge?". Some forum members suggested that I
email you and inquire if I can be the applicant and
the woman by the name of Maria Liwayway Alvaran be
part of the "machinery". The spirit who we call Ama
appropriates the body of the woman and uses it to talk
to, or converse with, the people.

The woman will act as my assistant and when the spirit
of Ama is in her body, the spirit will provide the
information needed which I will relay to the JREF
representatives, e.g. the contents of the sealed
boxes.

Your early response to this inquiry will be much
appreciated as I would like to beat the April 1
deadline when the rules of the challenge are changed and
take effect.

Thank you very much for your kind help.

Very truly yours,

Aristeo Canlas Fernando

If he says that I can be the applicant, I will sign the application form asap, attach a brief description of the demonstration, have it notarized and post it. I hope I receive a favorable reply.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Jackalgirl and Fellow Forumers,

Jeff gave me permission to post his reply, so here it is:

As for the challenge, yes, a third party could be used as a tool.

Claim: I can read numbers on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

Setup: A box will be placed in a safe with 5 random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all 5 numbers right, 10 times in a row, I win. If I get any numbers wrong, I lose.

Conditions: I require an assistant to be present with me.

That's a pretty simple, straightforward challenge there and it meets all our criteria. If the assistant is channeling a spirit, that's fine. As we always say, we don't care how it's done.

Hope to hear that your App is in soon, PC. Good luck!

Thank you very much, Jackalgirl, for all your help.

I will use the protocol of the challenge that Jeff Wagg stated in his email to you.

My ten-day trip to the Philippines during the Holy Week will now be more worthwhile and memorable. I will clarify the protocol to Mrs. Alvaran. I will also talk to the spirit of Ama. I firmly believe that He can easily pass the tests.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Pro7]

your willin to trade spiritism for a curse all in the name of money? ive seen this before. good luck peacecrusader, hope you know what ure doin.

 

[yairhol]

The test seems very straight forward, no uneeded complications which is always good.
Of course now we wait for the 'spirit' to accept the challenge.
My guess is that the woman who posseses the so called 'spirit' will have an excuse as to why not take the test. It will be something like: The son of god (the claim is that the spirit is Jesus) does not need to take any humanly test. It is a degradation to even come up with such an idea. Those who wish not to believe in god may do so and face the consequences.
I'll be very very surprised if the challenge goes through as proposed.

Again, thanks for reading,
Yair

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
I will sign the application tonight. I hope I get an appointment with a Notary Public tomorrow or on Saturday to have the application notarized and mail it to JREF asap. I hope it reaches the JREF office on or before April 1.
...

Have you contacted Mrs. Alvaran yet and got her and the "spirit's" approval to cooperate on the test?

Since the "spirit" forms an integral part to your claim, submitting an application without "his" consent seems pointless, doesn't it?

 

[Pro7]

Spiritism of this kind is a love affair. Its just a point of view.

 

[Davide]

Best Wishes

...I will clarify the protocol to Mrs. Alvaran. I will also talk to the spirit of Ama. I firmly believe that He can easily pass the tests.

Best wishes, PC. I hope you are right and that the test works just as you have said it will.

Even though I hope you are successful, like almost all of the other folks on this forum, I don't expect the test to be passed. In fact, I don't even expect it to take place as currently defined.

But what I or you or anyone else hopes or expects doesn't really matter, does it? Regardless of what any of us hope or expect, so long as you honestly tell us what happens, we'll all learn something interesting. You will do that, won't you?

 

[yairhol]

Tick Tack Tick Tack, The 1st of April is getting closer and closer....

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Davide and Fellow Forumers,

Best wishes, PC. I hope you are right and that the test works just as you have said it will.

Even though I hope you are successful, like almost all of the other folks on this forum, I don't expect the test to be passed. In fact, I don't even expect it to take place as currently defined.

But what I or you or anyone else hopes or expects doesn't really matter, does it? Regardless of what any of us hope or expect, so long as you honestly tell us what happens, we'll all learn something interesting. You will do that, won't you?

Thank you very much for your best wishes. I promise that I will keep you posted of any development regarding this application.

Today, I posted the application for the Challenge. I hope it reaches JREF's office in Florida on or before the April 1, 2007 deadline. In my e-mail to Jeff Wagg, I asked him if he would still accept my application if it reaches him after the deadline, to which he replied that it's okay.

Herewith is the body of my letter that went with the application:

I would like to take up and apply for the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge sponsored by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF).

I have signed the application form before Notary Public Brian Fisher, with office at Level 35, Waterfront Place, 1 Eagle Street, Brisbane, QLD 4000, Australia.

I have read the official rules governing the Challenge and agree to them.

I have the ability to communicate with a spirit. The spirit can convey to me the numbers that He reads on a folded piece of paper inside a closed box.

The box will be placed in a safe with five random numbers in it. I will tell you those numbers without opening the box, or even being in the same room. If I get all five numbers right, ten times in a row, I win. If I get any number wrong, I lose.

I require the presence of an assistant by the name of Mrs. Maria Liwayway Alvaran of Fernando Vergel de Dios Street, Barangay Concepcion, Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines whose body the spirit appropriates.

Other details of the test procedure are to be negotiated between JREF and myself.

Please acknowledge receipt of this application and send it in the enclosed self-addressed envelope.

Thank you.

Very truly yours,
(signed)ARISTEO CANLAS FERNANDO

The application has been posted. I hope the tests are executed in the soonest possible time.

I do not claim that I have the power to know what numbers are written in a folded piece of paper inside a closed box but with the spirit in Mrs. Alvaran's body, He can convey to me what the numbers are. To me, just getting those five numbers correctly is already an impossibility. How much more impossible is it to correctly give the set of five random numbers ten times in a row! But my faith in the spirit is that strong that I firmly believe that He can easily pass the tests.

Your comments are welcome.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Jackalgirl]

Today, I posted the application for the Challenge. I hope it reaches JREF's office in Florida on or before the April 1, 2007 deadline. In my e-mail to Jeff Wagg, I asked him if he would still accept my application if it reaches him after the deadline, to which he replied that it's okay.

You should be okay, PC -- according to the main Challenge page, any application postmarked by the 1st is good to go for the original rules.

Just be advised that JREF will probably want to refine your protocol a bit (i.e., determine the process by which the numbers will be generated, that sort of thing). But it looks really good so far. Thanks for sticking with the process, being patient, and being willing. : )

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Oualawouzou and Fellow Forumers,

This may be off-topic but while we are waiting for the progress of the application, I would like to reply to part of your post.

Would you like me to enumerate some of the true events in my life that led me to believe that the spirit who we call Ama (God the Father in Pilipino) is none other than Jesus?

Eh, why not?

I will provide additional info later. Meantime, from Post #323,
you may check the "coincidences" in my life in the following webpages:
1. @www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/signs.htm
2. @www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/jesus888.htm
3. @www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/post049.htm

Also, @www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/amapix.jpg

I am presenting also an improved perpetual calendar over the present calendar. I firmly believe that my proposed Aristean calendar is destined to replace the currently-used Gregorian calendar. Just think, how come that my mother’s name is Gregoria and my maternal grandmother’s name is Julita. Aren’t their names similar to Gregorian and Julian calendars? They are even in the same order. Was I already born to name them as such? Did I know that I would be presenting a new calendar for the world later in my life?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Thabiguy]

Your comments are welcome.

Congratulations, PeaceCrusader. Many people talk about applying, but very few do. Considering the narrow timeframe, you may even have the honor of being the last applicant to the Challenge under the old rules. Regardless of the result, your courtesy and commitment are commendable. You have my respect.

Even though the expected outcome would be the failure of the negotiation process due to Mrs. Alvaran's unwillingness to cooperate (perhaps explained as the spirit's unwillingness to be tested), I still hope that perhaps yours will be one of the rare claims that get all the way to preliminary testing.

I look forward to hearing about the progress in the negotiation process. Good luck!

 

[Jackalgirl]

Hey, PC -- one other question, if I may: will the medium still be providing a guess/determination on the numbers I generated and have waiting?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I allow myself to ask again, PeaceCrusader: Have you contacted Mrs. Alvaran yet (before you sent the application) and got her and the "spirit's" approval to cooperate on the test, i.e. have you specifically asked her to work with you for the purpose of the Million Dollar Challenge?