Whoa, am I psychic?

[Hawkeye]

Yes, I’m a totally psychic.

Ok, this is pretty funny.

Here is a link to a post I made on Jan 30, 2007:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2301177#post2301177
It was about Randi’s latest appearance on Anderson Cooper 360, where he trounced Sylvia Browne’s manager Linda Rossi.


On this weeks Swift (Feb 2, 2007), here what Randi had to say about the same appearance:
http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-02/020207geller.html#i3

One problem with appearances like these is that there is never enough time to properly discuss the challenge. It was not stressed enough that Sylvia, if she is a truly a legitimate psychic, could easily earn one million dollars in less than a days work. Sure, Sylvia “doesn’t have to prove anything to Randi,” but I can’t think of a better way to shut him up than to take his money. One minute just isn’t enough time to debunk all the lies about the challenge, or to explain how a mutually agreed upon double blind test is a fair way to measure ability, or to tell the story of how Browne already agreed to take the test 6 years ago.

The problem with appearances like these is that there is never enough time to properly discuss the JREF challenge; couple that with the fact that Sylvia's website was listed several times, while that of the JREF never appeared. The plain fact is that Sylvia, if she is a truly legitimate psychic, could easily earn our one million dollar prize in less than a day’s work. True, “Sylvia doesn’t have to prove anything to Randi,” as Ms. Rossi pointed out, but there’s no better way to shut me up than to take the JREF money. There’s not enough time to debunk all the lies and misapprehensions about the challenge, nor to explain how a mutually-agreed-upon double-blind test is a fair way to measure claims, nor to tell the story of how Browne already agreed to take the test, six years ago.

I thought it was deliciously ironic that Linda said Randi should go after the “real charlatans out there” and leave Sylvia alone. Hmmm, that sounds an awful lot like what Rosemary Altea said. Apparently every psychic out there is a fraud except for the one you happen to be talking to at the moment.

Ms. Rossi said that I should “go after the real charlatans out there” and leave Sylvia alone. Friends, that sounds very much like what Rosemary Altea said, on the Larry King Live show just a few days before. It seems that every psychic whose claims I question is a fraud, except for the one I'm talking to or about at the moment!

Notice any similarities?
It's Amazing!
Is this simply a case of how great minds think alike? (Oh how I flatter myself.)
Perhaps I listen to Randi so much that I’m beginning to turn into him. (Better start working on that beard.)
Or maybe it’s just an eerie, improbable coincidence. (I assure you, it’s not some sort of trick where I got the Swift early.)

I bet some of you out there are still skeptical about this "paranormal" event. Prepare to have your mind blown away:

I submit to you, that Randi and I share the same birthday of August the 7th!

 

[Rodney]

Yes, I’m a totally psychic.

Ok, this is pretty funny.

Here is a link to a post I made on Jan 30, 2007:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2301177#post2301177
It was about Randi’s latest appearance on Anderson Cooper 360, where he trounced Sylvia Browne’s manager Linda Rossi.


On this weeks Swift (Feb 2, 2007), here what Randi had to say about the same appearance:
http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-02/020207geller.html#i3

Notice any similarities?
It's Amazing!
Is this simply a case of how great minds think alike? (Oh how I flatter myself.)
Perhaps I listen to Randi so much that I’m beginning to turn into him. (Better start working on that beard.)
Or maybe it’s just an eerie, improbable coincidence. (I assure you, it’s not some sort of trick where I got the Swift early.)

I bet some of you out there are still skeptical about this "paranormal" event. Prepare to have your mind blown away:

I submit to you, that Randi and I share the same birthday of August the 7th!

Gee, if I were a skeptic, I might argue that Randi plagiarized your post. But that can't possibly be true . . . can it?

 

[Wowbagger]

Hawkeye is really just Randi's sock puppet.

(Though, that doesn't explain why my roomate looked nothing like Randi...)

 

[tkingdoll]

Now, if this was Sylvia Browne or any other woo, the forum would be whooping with joy at the great unmasking of a plagiarist and baying for blood and possible tax receipts as well.

This is going to be very interesting, I assume you've emailed Randi or Jeff for comment? I'd like to see what is said

 

[Foolmewunz]

Now, if this was Sylvia Browne or any other woo, the forum would be whooping with joy at the great unmasking of a plagiarist and baying for blood and possible tax receipts as well.

This is going to be very interesting, I assume you've emailed Randi or Jeff for comment? I'd like to see what is said

I doubt plagiarism, so that leaves us a few alternate possibilities (and the first option will get a plurality, I'm certain).

A) Coincidence
B) T'ai Chi is right and we're all just reciting knee-jerk reactions like a bunch of parrots.
C) T'ai Chi is wrong, but there are only "x" ways to pick apart the show/confrtontation if you do it line by line, and Randi and Hawkeye have developed similar methods of debating.
D) Please don't make me get out the asbestos monitor cover. I'd personally actually vote for Randi perhaps having read the thread and subliminally remembered it when he was writing. It's not identical enough to be tagged plagiarism, but similar enough that it does seem that he may have read the stuff previously. I can remember doing something similar at various times in personal and even business writings, and being rather embarassed later to have to admit, if only to myself, that my clever turn of phrase was actually inspired (nice word for borrowed) by someone else.
E) (to include ALL possibilities) Did it on purpose.

 

[tkingdoll]

I doubt plagiarism, so that leaves us a few alternate possibilities (and the first option will get a plurality, I'm certain).

A) Coincidence
B) T'ai Chi is right and we're all just reciting knee-jerk reactions like a bunch of parrots.
C) T'ai Chi is wrong, but there are only "x" ways to pick apart the show/confrtontation if you do it line by line, and Randi and Hawkeye have developed similar methods of debating.
D) Please don't make me get out the asbestos monitor cover. I'd personally actually vote for Randi perhaps having read the thread and subliminally remembered it when he was writing. It's not identical enough to be tagged plagiarism, but similar enough that it does seem that he may have read the stuff previously. I can remember doing something similar at various times in personal and even business writings, and being rather embarassed later to have to admit, if only to myself, that my clever turn of phrase was actually inspired (nice word for borrowed) by someone else.

As a writer and copy editor, I would not accept coincidence as an excuse for that level of similarity, not just in wording but in the structure of the paragraphs. But I agree it's not enough content to be 'plagiarism' in a 'let's sue!' sense.

D is possible, but so is "did it on purpose", which is what was claimed of Sylvia when a similar situation occurred with her book (albeit on a larger scale).

While I absolutely support Randi and hope this is just an accident, it wouldn't be fair to treat this with any less skepticism than we would if it were a woo writer instead. But, I fully expect there is a good explanation, so await a comment from JREF.

 

[Foolmewunz]

As a writer and copy editor, I would not accept coincidence as an excuse for that level of similarity, not just in wording but in the structure of the paragraphs. But I agree it's not enough content to be 'plagiarism' in a 'let's sue!' sense.

D is possible, but so is "did it on purpose", which is what was claimed of Sylvia when a similar situation occurred with her book (albeit on a larger scale).

While I absolutely support Randi and hope this is just an accident, it wouldn't be fair to treat this with any less skepticism than we would if it were a woo writer instead. But, I fully expect there is a good explanation, so await a comment from JREF.

Yeah, I left out E, "Did it on purpose", but I'd opened that I was listing other possibilities.

Ditto on the "let's see what the reply is" sentiment. I still vote for D. And no, it won't cause me to adjust my esteem or support for Randi, in the slightest.

 

[Hawkeye]

Gee, if I were a skeptic, I might argue that Randi plagiarized your post. But that can't possibly be true . . . can it?

Technically speaking, it’s certainly a possibility. I thought about it myself, but I decided to not even post it as an option. I wouldn’t dare jump to that conclusion or start making any accusations. I’m just a punk kid; Randi doesn’t need to copy me. If anything, I’m flattered that my writing style could be so similar to his.

This is going to be very interesting, I assume you've emailed Randi or Jeff for comment? I'd like to see what is said

I did email Randi, and I will let you all know what he says.
Maybe I’ll even get on next week’s Swift. That would seriously be awesome.

C) T'ai Chi is wrong, but there are only "x" ways to pick apart the show/confrontation if you do it line by line, and Randi and Hawkeye have developed similar methods of debating.

This is what I think probably happened. How awesome is that though, to have the same thought process as my biggest hero!

D)I'd personally actually vote for Randi perhaps having read the thread and subliminally remembered it when he was writing. It's not identical enough to be tagged plagiarism, but similar enough that it does seem that he may have read the stuff previously.

Interesting idea, but I was under the impression that Randi doesn’t spend much time browsing the forums.
I imagine he has much more important things to do!

 

[Hawkeye]

Randi responds!

Chris: I admit, I shamelessly took your comments and dropped them in as
part of SWIFT, simply because they exactly reflected my observations. I
could have changed the wording, but getting SWIFT together each week - amid
all the other duties that keep me here at least 60 hours a week - calls for
some corner-cutting every now and then. Mea culpa...

It's 9:08 on Saturday morning, I've been here since 7:30 or so, and I'll be
here until late today... This is what I do, I do it for as many hours as I
can, and I love it, but I err occasionally as I did by stealing your
comments so blatantly.

(If you want to use this on the Forum, or anywhere else, you're of course
free to do so. We have few secrets here, except for a couple of jazzy
card-tricks...!)

James Randi.

Well there you have it, a perfectly reasonable explanation for the similarities.
Darn, I was hoping it was ESP.

 

[tkingdoll]

Randi responds!


Well there you have it, a perfectly reasonable explanation for the similarities.
Darn, I was hoping it was ESP.

The perfectly reasonable explanation is plagiarism, then.

This is odd:

I could have changed the wording

.

But he did change the wording.

Well, if you're happy about it, then the rest of us have no right to gripe, but I won't be reading the commentary with much confidence again. If Sylvia had responded to the allegations of plagiarism against her with "my busy schedule calls for some corner-cutting on occasion" I expect it would have been met with hoots of laughter.

As I say, it's your issue, not mine, but I am sad to note the lack of the word "sorry" in the response.

 

[baron]

 

[Wowbagger]

You should feel honored! ...and demand royalties!

 

[Kaylee]

He had another option, he could have just quoted you.

Maybe next time he is short on time, or just sees a very well written post, he'll do that.

Anyway, he can fix it. He can give you credit in next week's commentary -- not for your sake, but for his. Major newspapers make revisions, retractions, correct oversights, etc. all the time.

We all make mistakes -- that isn't really one of the things that defines us; it's what we do after we figured out we made a mistake. I've learned in this forum that many people respect Randi, so that's reason to believe he may still do the honorable thing, in this situation.

ETA: and give you

royalties!

 

[articulett]

I had guessed that is what had happened (maybe I'm psychic), but I find it flattering that he reads your posts. Hawkeye, you are influencing those who influence a great many others! Presumably, you said exactly what he would like to say and in a well-worded way (but it would have been a bonus if he'd added, as forum member Hawkeye point's out...) Hopefully enough of the key phrases stick so he can rush them in before interruptions, edits, and announcements that time is up next time he's on CNN or some other widely viewed show. For short attention spans, it's important to get your most salient facts out quickly.

I hope some choice words stick in the minds of some who just drop by for a quick read...

 

[Foolmewunz]

Although plagiarism may have too strong of a connotation, I have to agree with Teek. (Yes, I have to - it's a compulsion, but not because of the boobs as I'm a leg man, myself... it's because she's generally a huge forum and Randi supporter, but calls 'em as she sees 'em, and is a class act, to boot!)

This is a little disappointing. The words were changed, if only slightly, and the act of performing a cut-n-drop job should remind any of us that we're using someone else's material, albeit that material is on an open forum, owned by the guy doing the snipping. Especially if you change a couple of words or phrases here and there to make it more like your own writing.

A credit of some sort was due, even if just a mention as he had in this week's SWIFT, about having some smart readers.... i.e. "One of the members of the JREF Forum posted something that I think sums this up....". (It would've been a good plug for the forums, too!)

I'm glad he admitted it quickly, but a clarification in the next SWIFT would be appropriate, IMHO.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Well there you have it, a perfectly reasonable explanation for the similarities.
Darn, I was hoping it was ESP.

Oh dear. : (

I hope he apologizes also. And I'm totally mystified. He's never had problems quoting people from email before; couldn't he just cite Hawkeye in his quote? It really bugs me that he deliberately changed some of the wording.

 

[Mr. Stick]

I thought I recognized the part about other psychics being frauds, but didn't give it much thought. Strange I didn't pick up on the rest .
I don't agree with those who say it's not plagiarism. True, Randi has added more detail and rephrased some of it, but it's evident that it's the same text. I really don't think this is any different than SB copying Joe Nickell link, although Randi readily admitted his copying. IMO Randi should give Hawkeye credit in the next Swift.

 

[Elaedith]

Changing someone elses words slightly is not in itself a problem. The problem is lack of acknowledgement. Paraphrasing can easily be acknowledged without implying the use of an exact quote.

 

[SezMe]

If the next SWIFT does not contain a mea culpa by Randi, he will have fallen several notches in my esteem. SEVERAL.

 

[Reno]

I am not happy about this. Hawkeye should be acknowledged on Swift by Randi at the very least. Those words in those structures are surely Hawkeye's intellectual property?

Comparing Randi/Hawkeye to Slyvia/Nickell is not the same though. How much did Slyvia make in sales of her book containing the plagiarism, and how much did Randi make plagiarising Hawkeye?