Telekinesiologist now at JREF!

[IXP]

The only objects I can confirm I have an easier time with are objects with a large surface area. Larger sheets may actually be easier.

TK,

There is a hint here, if you would think about it. What is a force that depends on surface area of the object that it is acting on? Is telekenesis the first thing that come to mind? Hint: why do large sailboats require large sails? Hint 2: What is a common measure that is expressed in units of pounds per square inch?

IXP

 

[TheTelekinesiologist]

Don't give up - and don't paint with such a broad brush. This is a public forum full of different people - some are bound to rub you the wrong way and some are bound to be jerks. Many people have been freindly and offered great advice. If you really don't like how someone is treating you, you can put them on ignore and not even have to read their posts at all. You also seem to pull out the 'your being mean' card the minute a good critique that may get us to the truth appears.

Also, don't confuse criticism of your claimed ability with a personal criticism. If someone told you they would sell you a brand new Mercedes for $10 - wouldn't you want to see the car, and make sure it works? Would you asking to see the car and verify the claim be unfreindly, or is it just good skepticism. Why should we treat your claim any differently?

I know, It's just that if the car had no gas, how could the sales person prove it?

 

[CFLarsen]

Hmm...I thought this forum was "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way"

Guess I should have read the fine-print...

This thread is done. Thanks for everyone's support and opinions, but I'm afraid school is calling and I don't want to be late...

No I'm not tired of you or CLD, I'm just tired of the questions. This thread has gone to far. I must say, no one has made a statement to change my mind so I have given up hope. I will continue to develope this ability only to satisfy myself. I suspect in the future, telekinesis will be part of everyday life. Mabye then, you all will see the truth.

We will certainly not "see the truth" if you refuse to let us see it.

You are tired of the questions? You don't like it, when people ask you to back up your claim with evidence? Really?

What did you expect? You bet this forum is a place to discuss critical thinking, the paranormal and science, but surely, you hadn't expected that we gobbled up everything you said, without a shred of evidence?

 

[The Atheist]

And you expect that being shown evidence that other people are frauds will immediately convince a believer that he is himself a fraud when he does something that he really believes in, you do not understand much of believers or education.

And your namby-pamby sucking up to them does? I think I understand believers a lot better than you do.

I don't even think I've accused him of being a fraud. He's just a misguided little chap. The best thing for these misguided little chaps is a good kick in the arse. You have teenage boys at home? I repeat, you're proposing to treat him like a five year old. If he wants respect, grow up. Very simple.

Drink a lot of water do you?

The troll-baiting is unworthy of this forum.

Humble apologies - I didn't realise that you were the sole arbiter of what's appropriate on a US forum. Unter was right, Denmark is taking over the world.

No, polite and firm will do. If you want to educate this young fellow you have to understand that it is a process that is not accomplished by a few posts pointing out his errors followed up by a load of abuse if he does not at once cave in.

You seem to be under the impression that he's educatable. You're also wrong.

This has been said so often here that one wonders why you even bother, unless you get a pleasure from yanking his chains.

Because, unlike some soft North Europeans, I don't actually like wading through BS, so I take the piss out of people who cover themselves in it.

If the wee chap is going to go around making wild claims, he will get plenty more abuse than I ever give. His parents think he's a freak - they're right! I wouldn't go as far as that. I just think he probably needs a girlfriend.

 

[Starrman]

I know, It's just that if the car had no gas, how could the sales person prove it?

Go get gas and put it in the car - not sure what your point was. Why won't you try CDL's multiple psiwheel experiment? Why do you suddenly give up when a great, simple suggestion is given that can provide an answer?

Not being having this power will not make you any less unique than anyone else - don't you want to know if you are fooling yourself?

 

[uruk]

Well just put it this way. Some people don't like the media and the government, including me. I don't wan't to be some ginny pig in a lab and neither do they. If the government found out that there where people around the world doing this stuff, don't you think they would want to experiment on them or even kill them because they might be a danger to society? Tiger woods doesn't have to worry because he is obeying the laws of physics.

You know I brough up a point similar to this many a year ago when I first joined this forum.
If I was really telekinetic or psychic I would't want to tell anyone. I 'd keep it a secret. Not because of the government or looney toons looking for the latest messiah. I'd be able to use my power to defend myself or avoid them altogether.

I wouldn't tell anyone because I'd be in Las Vegas or some indian casino right now getting stinkin' rich. The JREF million would be pocket change and the publicity associated with winning the challenge would be unwanted.

The real purpose of the challenge is to feret out all the dillusionals and charlitans. Which is a noble cause in itself.

Now I'm not saying that I've seen anything that would lead me to believe that any psychic phenomenon exists. Actually it would be great boon to mankind if it did exist. I'm just pointing out that if I had a psychic ability I wouldn't want people to know about it.

 

[uruk]

I know, It's just that if the car had no gas, how could the sales person prove it?

Putting a siphon hose in the tank and sucking, a dip stick, unscrew the drain tap, the feul gage reading empty, putting an endoscopic camera in the tank to name a few.

 

[JonWhite]

Look at the bottom of post #183 in this thread.

Behold, the Clap...

Ah, I see.

Sorry, should've explained. Being "given the clap" in the UK is not something you'd be grateful for (the clap = Gonorrhea )!

 

[Fnord]

This is a public forum full of different people - some are bound to rub you the wrong way and some are bound to be jerks.

HEY!!! I resemble that remark!

Uh ... resent ... I meant to say "resent" ... as in "I resent that remark" ... really ... must've been some basement-dwelling adolescent using a paranormal ability to change the natural order of things ...

 

[desertyeti]

I will continue to develope this ability only to satisfy myself.

Y'know...I...
The thing is...
Y'see...it's like....

well...never mind...

 

[CLD]

I suspect in the future, telekinesis will be part of everyday life. Mabye then, you all will see the truth.

So far I haven't see any movement towards this goal - other than people staring at spinning pinwheels. They've been staring at those damned wheels for at least 30 years. The only thing that's new about it is now you can see this crap on YouTube. Where's the progress?

 

[TheTelekinesiologist]

So far I haven't see any movement towards this goal - other than people staring at spinning pinwheels. They've been staring at those damned wheels for at least 30 years. The only thing that's new about it is now you can see this crap on YouTube. Where's the progress?

Hey guy's, what if I can make the paper fall off the pin, wouldn't that be convincing? Cause I did. And I am getting the hang of it. Try doing that with heat, static, or even air(blowing it would obviously be fake).

 

[roger]

Hey guy's, what if I can make the paper fall off the pin, wouldn't that be convincing? Cause I did.

No, not convincing. Once again, please, stop experimenting with psi wheels and shift your effort to devices that actually measure forces - scales. Do that, and you'll have something. As has been pointed out, you can get consumer grade ones that are accurate to 1/100gm. I'm sure your school has some.

The psi wheel is supremely sensitive to tiny forces, and will exhibit the result of the force long after it is applied. Anything you do with these things, and yes, that includes something precariously balanced falling off, will not be convincing or impressive. Sorry.

 

[CLD]

Hey guy's, what if I can make the paper fall off the pin, wouldn't that be convincing? Cause I did. And I am getting the hang of it. Try doing that with heat, static, or even air(blowing it would obviously be fake).

4 separate papers on separate 4 pins, about 12 inches apart. Verbally identify which one you are going to make fall. Start with the 2nd one.

 

[The Atheist]

So far I haven't see any movement towards this goal - other than people staring at spinning pinwheels. They've been staring at those damned wheels for at least 30 years. The only thing that's new about it is now you can see this crap on YouTube. Where's the progress?

That is the progress - being able to see that you're not alone, that there are literally thousands of people out there dumb enough to either pretend, or actually think that this is real. Stupidity attracts.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

Hey guy's, what if I can make the paper fall off the pin, wouldn't that be convincing? Cause I did. And I am getting the hang of it. Try doing that with heat, static, or even air(blowing it would obviously be fake).

If you can do that... I'm sure that next you'll be working on moving feathers as they drop to the ground.

Perhaps after that we can have you move some dust around in the air?

Don't you think that maybe the reason so many people are using psi-wheels is because that's the best they can do?

 

[Jackalgirl]

sure. how would you go about doing that?

Hi again! Sorry about the delay in responding. Sometimes I can't get on for a whole day and the thread's already three pages longer. ; )

First off, don't sell yourself short. Taking a step back and thinking about what you're doing is /good/, but don't ever think that you're not important enough to make a difference. The fact that you are thinking, and that you are willing to think about test design, and that you really want to research this, indicates to me that you're certainly important enough.

As for designing a protocol, you just need to sit down and think about all of the things that /could/ be going on (like air currents, vibrations, static electricity, etc) and then think of a way to isolate your test target so that those things are shown not to be a factor.

You've gotten some really good suggestions from people: I think that the idea of using a ping-pong ball is excellent, but I think most excellent of all (if you can't work through glass or plastic very well) was CLD's suggestion of using multiple pinwheels and trying to move just one.

Lastly, remember that you shouldn't give up just because you feel overwhemed here. People are going to be hitting you from all different directions with all kinds of observations, suggestions, criticism, etc. The most important thing about all of it is this: anything that has a measurable effect on the world is testable in some way. Nothing else anyone says here is important.

 

[CLD]

Oh, by the way, here's an interesting account of a test administered on telekinetic claimant Russell Shipp by the North Texas Skeptics. Shipp claimed to understand how air currents might affect target movement. He too felt certain that air currents were not responsible for his alleged telekinetic powers.

Shipp agreed to all conditions of the test, pronouncing them "ideal".

When his powers failed to manifest while testing under controlled conditions, Shipp was despondent, yet he appeared to have accepted the verdict. Later he began to convince himself (once again) that his powers were real - and it was the North Texas Skeptics who were at fault. He claims they were "against him" and not able to give him a fair test.

 

[The Atheist]

Fancy that - a failed telekinetic blaming the testing organisation.

Gosh, sceptics are so cunning. They claim to be sceptical, yet they actually know all about negative influence to make people fail these tests. Must be CIA plants, every single one.

 

[steenkh]

Control is a big problem and doesn't work well always. But I have had my good moments. There were multiple times when I stopped the paper on a dime. But it never works the same all the time. Sometimes it doesn't move at all. Sometimes I even have trouble keeping it on the pin. I have actually been diagnosed to have a stress disorder, located in the thyroid so I think this may be why it's so hard. It all depends on mood and how I'm feeling that particular day. Some people may think I'm crazy but I can definitly distinguish between the possible and impossible. I think your right about the psi wheel at 45 degrees. I suspected that could have happened. Therefore, it doesn't prove anything.

Your description sounds just like what we would expect if your ability does not work. If random movements happen to give the results you expect, you conclude you have a good day. If the do not, you conclude you have a bad day.

It is imperative that you find a way to distinguish between chance and TK. Yo must adjust for the fact that even random movements will result in lucky streaks. Knocking the psywheels off (or whatever you do) is not worth anything if you cannot prove that this could not have happened otherwise.

If you have any statistics questions, there are many here who can educate you.