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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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Here's some nonsense from kitakaze....

Not to mention that in her submitted report she never used the word "bigfoot".

To which I replied....
Hey...kitakazeohsoklueless...what name are " large (7 feet at least), hairy man-like creatures" commonly refered to by in reports filed on Bigfoot database websites, like Bfro. Any idea?
Still not convinced she was refering to Bigfoot in her report? Joyce said to me in our conversation...refering to Bigfoot....."OH Yeah...THEY'RE REAL!"
And then kitakaze responds with...
Yes, Kevo. It's clear she was implying bigfoot.

kitakaze.....your posts are worth about as much as a used piece of toilet paper.

What point were you trying to make there, exactly...by saying "she never used the word "Bigfoot"?
 
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kitakaze wrote:

No...it's just common sense.

I think it's a good idea to make some quick notes when you happen to see an "unknown" species of hominid (apeman) walking by....because you never really know which memories will stick in your head and which ones won't.
No... that would be Sweaty sense. If I were in the forest and anticipating a possible sasquatch encounter I might have some better ideas for documentary tools than a notepad and pen. On the other hand regular people heading into the forest don't usually have 'be poorly prepared for bigfoot sighting' on their checklist. That's even better than the 'pull the hair real hard' solution to deal with the possibility of a suit.

Oh, it's ok, Sweaty. Nobody actually thinks you believe any of that (I hope). We know your just talking out your behind because you don't have any reliable evidence to support your beliefs to debate about.
No....I'll retract that statment. You're not always wrong....but you have been plenty enough.
Thanks for the retraction. Define 'plenty enough'. Care to provide some examples where I've been wrong concerning you? Are they equal to or greater in number than when I was right?

Unless of course you'd like to discuss reliable evidence for bigfoot?
 
kitakaze.....your posts are worth about as much as a used piece of toilet paper.
That's not an unexpected appraisal coming from you considering how many times I've commented on your silliness. If you have any reliable evidence for bigfoot to discuss we might be able to move past it.
What point were you trying to make there, exactly...by saying "she never used the word "Bigfoot"?
See, you just don't get it, do you Sweaty? Was I wrong? It's all about the details. I was illustrating how bad you are with them.
 
Hi DY :) Tube refers to the use of "Virgin Volcanic Ash" in some of his most recent tests - although I can not find a supplier of such an item in the State of Washington or Oregon... This seems puzzling to me.

QUOTE]

Utter, total, pathological nonsense. You have already been TOLD where I bought it, what seems to be your major malfunction?


SeattlePotterySupplyReceipt067.jpg


IMG_5061.jpg
 
As Desertyeti has recently pointed out, and as I've pointed out on numerous occasions, the desiccation ridge process is a GENERALIZED process that can occur in multiple substrates and with multiple casting cements. You don't even need pure inorganic powders from the pottery supply store. Here is a recent test I did with plaster of Paris in some soil I got from the bank of the Duwamish river here in Seattle. In this case they are subtle, but that's what we are looking at here.


IMG_5052.jpg
 
Hi DY :) I knew you couldn't leave the Bigfoot world for long, I figured you would pop up again somewhere. LOL

So, now you claim to know more about Soil than the Scientist I spoke with who works with Cornell University (and 20+ years of experience)? Interesting DY. I would appreciate your not taking my words out of context - I said very specifically there is no volcanic ash. Tube refers to the use of "Virgin Volcanic Ash" in some of his most recent tests - although I can not find a supplier of such an item in the State of Washington or Oregon... This seems puzzling to me.

I also stated specifically the clay content of this soil is very high - which is a by product of volcanic ash once it breaks down (source USGS Volcanologist working on Mt.Saint Helens). I was told specifically by more than one person, volcanic ash breaks down in as little as 2 years into these other deposits you speak of - yet that does not mean it is volcanic ash, stop misleading people, is the truth to hard to take?

If Tube is right - he should have been able to duplicate his work using the soil from Onion Mountain - question is, why cant he? Can you answer that DY? I doubt it. Why don't you try to be a little objective in your thinking for once and ask yourself - why hasn't Tube duplicated his work, or why haven't I been able to? According to him it shouldn't be that difficult, so why is it?

My work at least proves one thing - creating these dermals is not half as easy as Tube would like us all to believe, if that were the case I would have admitted defeat by now - and happily, as I am frankly tired of having dirt and casting agents in my apartment..

Dont you have a paper to publish?? Hows that going?

Oh and P.S. - When the road crews with the Six Rivers National Forest do their "Grading" they put as much of the remaining soil back into the road - to keep the minerals in that specific area. The Geologists see to that, as they want the mineral content of the soils to remain the same, and not be influenced by humans and their need for roads (or as much as possible). Yeah, they told me that themselves. The "Grading" is also only about 2 inches into the top of the road - it is not as destructive as you might want these people to think. I have actually spoken to a person with Six Rivers who knows all about this very area, and the laying of that initial road - yep, I found someone --- have you or tube even tried? So, I think my information is pretty good :) I am quite the little detective, bet you didn't know that, LOL. Hell, I even know where the documents are that specifically discuss the construction on these very roads - its not that hard to figure out, if you really want to know, but I challenge you to figure it out, if I can - so can you.

Give people good information and let them make up their own minds.


What we have here is a bad case of HEARSAY. We are not told:

1. What the names of your "experts" are.
2. What questions are being asked.
3. What exactly their answers are.

By and large I've tuned out your musings on this subject, ever since you claimed that:

1. Tricalcium Phosphate is equivalent to pumice
2. Tricalcium Phosphate is "full of iron"
3. It's illegal to sell volcanic ash (pumice)

But what I have read of your various online claims consist of nothing but HEARSAY. Why is it that you won't reveal the names of your "expert" sources?

I've had my own experiences with experts, too. Last summer I was in contact with a fingerprint examiner from Arkansas, who had examined a copy of CA-19. Not surprisingly, he didn't feel the textures represented "dermal ridges". But he was unwilling to have his name associated with Bigfootery, so consequently you don't see mention of him on my website. I even acknowledge that this very claim of mine now is itself hearsay.

I wasn't too upset by this, as the cast textures speak for themselves.
 
My work at least proves one thing - creating these dermals is not half as easy as Tube would like us all to believe, QUOTE]

Total nonsense and garbage. Your own failures are a testament to your unwillingness to follow directions. You have absolutely no clue at to what constitutes basic scientific replication.
 
Regarding claims of casts of alleged sasquatch prints displaying what are interpretted as being the dermatoglyphics of that creature can anyone anywhere demonstrate two casts of separate prints of a successive trackway displaying matching (not similar) dermal patterns?

This seems to be one of the simplest and most basic questions regarding these claims yet one that has thus far been unanswered. I look forward to any input you have to offer on this.

Kitakaze.

I thought you were going to contact Dr. Meldrum about this. He's the one who has the casts.

BTW, congratulations on ordering the book. I hope you'll find it interesting.
 
My work at least proves one thing - creating these dermals is not half as easy as Tube would like us all to believe,

Total nonsense and garbage. Your own failures are a testament to your unwillingness to follow directions. You have absolutely no clue at to what constitutes basic scientific replication.

She's stated she followed your directions. Instead of resorting to the personal attacks, how about explaining why you couldn't get the same results using OM soil? Didn't you follow your own directions?
 
[qimg]http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/matthetube/IMG_37911.jpg[/qimg]

Yeah, it's fun to talk about the geology of Onion Mountain, but the bottom line is that the cast textures speak for themselves. To assert that the desiccation ridge process did not happen is to assert that these are not desiccation ridges:

[qimg]http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/matthetube/IMG_3400.jpg[/qimg]

Didn't Chilcutt point out the artifacts are squarish, like those?

Do you have a photo of the ball on CA 19? From the talk at Willow Creek, it would seem Chilcutt was referring to the ridges on the ball, not the ridges around the heel. You've seen that presentation?

How do you get dessication ridges in mud?
 
I thought you were going to contact Dr. Meldrum about this. He's the one who has the casts.

BTW, congratulations on ordering the book. I hope you'll find it interesting.
I haven't forgotten though I don't have much hope that he'll respond. When it's ready I'll post a copy of the e-mail I send him in this thread and should he respond and give his permission to do so I'll post his response here. Actually, thanks for the de-distraction, I'll see if I can post my e-mail to him tonight.
 
They do have a body... As well as DNA and trail cam pics.
They have reliable evidence.

And apparently they're nothing but fat chimps. Not a new species after all.

Evidence obtained at the tropical rainforests of Congo, a war-torn country. Am I supposed to think working at the PNW is harder than at Congo?

The main difference is there were scientists working there at all. The Bili Ape project got Dr. Sarmiento.

We have no full time field researchers.

A cyber friend told me NG had an article about a scientist travelling through much of Africa and finding no evidence for Bondo Apes at all. I wonder if he concluded they don't exist.

Where's the reliable evidence for bigfoot?

Most of it's in Dr. Meldrum's lab at ISU. You can throw out everything brought in by Freeman and Marx and still have enough evidence to warrant that full scale scientific investigation we haven't had yet.

Plaese, don´t waste time trying to sell
-Casts from Ivan Marx

Ivan Marx faked film. There's no evidence he faked casts. Some have held up to intense scrutiny. How likely is it he could have faked a condition consistant with metatarsus adductus, or come up with a fingerprint on a Washington cast consistant with one found in Ft. Bragg, California (assuming tube is correct in it not having whorls)?

BTW, Cripplefoot's prints were seen again 5-6 years after Bossburg, twenty miles away.

-A film that may (quite probably is IMHO) be a hoax

And in nearly forty years has not been proved to be one. Why do sceptics so completely ignore those proportions?

-Blobfeet

Many impressions are indistinct. That's the nature of the substrate. There are also those that are quite clear.

-Casts that may be hoaxes or misidentifications

Of overlaid bear, deer scrapings or those silly Wallace wooden feet that wouldn't match the trackways if the toes were movable?

What about the ones that a correct anatomically for a bipedal hominid having great weight?

-Sighting reports

Thousands of reports from reliable witnesses, many backed up by physical evidence. The most common, according to John Green's database, are of the animals near roads or crossing them, seen from cars. If that many people are suffering sleep paralysis behind the wheel, we have a major safety problem in this country. Why is it people who really do fall asleep behind the wheel don't seem to report Bigfoot sightings?

-Disappearing body parts

It would be interesting if they turned up, wouldn't it?

-A hand found at a dumpyard

Biscardi? You take him seriously?

-The cast of an elk lay

The leading primate anatomist, after four examinations of the original, stated on National TV he's satisfied the imprint was not made by a coyote, deer, or elk, but Cliff Crook, a known hoaxer who's never seen the cast, and this man,

anton.jpg


who's seen a copy, say it is and that's good enough for you?

-Interpretation of myths
as reliable.

Point me to a study that shows North Americans copped Native myths and are now going around seeing mythological beings in forests and near rivers and occasionally on farms across the continent.

Native interpretations of native traditions among the Coastal Tribes would seem to indicate they're considered real animals with special powers as go-betweens because of the manlike shape, but real animals nonetheless.

They are usually portrayed whistling, a sound that's been reported often.

The whites evidently decided ravens, coyotes, whales and wolves are real animals, but giant hairy hominids must be myths because such creatures can't exist.

Modern sightings by First Nations people are like sightings by whites.

I'm surprised you don't apply the same critical standards to sceptics' arguments that you use on those of proponents.
 
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kitakaze wrote:
What point were you trying to make there, exactly...by saying "she never used the word "Bigfoot"?
See, you just don't get it, do you Sweaty? Was I wrong? It's all about the details. I was illustrating how bad you are with them.
No, I don't get your point, kitakaze.
Explain in more detail why Joyce not using the word "Bigfoot" in her report has anything to do with anything.

It says nothing whatsoever about my memory concerning her sighting.

Were you playing some kind of technicality word game...or is there a real, and significant point that you were trying to make?
 
I haven't forgotten though I don't have much hope that he'll respond. When it's ready I'll post a copy of the e-mail I send him in this thread and should he respond and give his permission to do so I'll post his response here. Actually, thanks for the de-distraction, I'll see if I can post my e-mail to him tonight.

While you're at it, would you ask if he has copies of those two casts for sale?
 
It'll be interesting given how clearly your inability to be objective has been illustrated to see what your investigative prowess will do with your little 'Patty is a pinhead' presentation. At least you'll have some help there. Should be riveting.

SY is not an investigator. He had a friendly phone conversation with a witness. He was not required to interogate her or her daughter.

FYI, there's a very detailed form written up by John Green, used by some investigators, that covers everything from vegetation in the area to time of day.

Investigators are cautioned to not lead the witness, but to elicit as much detail as possible.

I've just watched some good, rather recent interviews from Oregon on Autumn Williams' DVD. These folks did not appear to be delusional, they were not displaying signs of lying

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/29/the_top_seven_signs_that_someone_is_lying_to_you.htm

and all were familiar with bears and certain that's not what they were seeing. One was a police officer for 19 years. Another noted that in 30 years in the woods he'd only seen one cougar.
 
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kitakaze wrote:
Now who's having trouble answering simple questions regarding Joyce's report? Posts #852, #897, and #915 ring a bell?
I answered your questions.
Now you're the one having a problem answering questions.
How about answering the ones I asked you a couple of days ago....

How could Joyce's poor memory of certain details change the most basic fact of their sighting....that they thought they saw a Bigfoot?

Were they actually watching a bear walk upright through a cow pasture, and only later she misremembered it and thought they were watching a Bigfoot?

What is it that you're saying exactly, kitakaze,with regards to Joyce possibly remembering details incorrectly?

Can you give some examples of details being distorted...which would make the difference between them seeing a bear, and a Bigfoot?


You give an anecdote, say there are only two possible explanations for it, claim it as evidence that 'isn't paltry', and in light of your malfunct reasoning insist that someone else provide you with other 'probable' explanations.
Can you provide any quotes from me, where I INSIST that someone else provide other PROBABLE explanations?
I have asked for other LIKELY explanations...but so far, nobody...including you...have provided any.
You did say Joyce might be a fruitcake..."psychologically manufactured"....but failed to provide any reason whatsoever for that being PROBABLE.
When I talked to Joyce she was very friendly, and sounded very rational.
She said she would email me the name and email address of someone she had talked to about her sighting, who is a local researcher. She did that the next day.
She wasn't craving attention...she didn't ask me to call her again, or anything like that. She was friendly, helpful...and fully rational.

What makes your alternate explanation of her report being "psychologically manufactured for whatever reason" (nutcase) so PROBABLE?
 
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Hi DY :) I knew you couldn't leave the Bigfoot world for long, I figured you would pop up again somewhere. LOL

Yeah, he's been here at least since the Official Skookum Cast thread on BFF wound down. It would seem he has little fear of contradiction here.

I see you've drawn the usual insults from tube. It's always fun to see that mask of maturity crumble as he replies to your posts. You really seem to know how to push his buttons.

Good job.
 
Dr. Meldrum will be on the Discovery Channel tomorrow night.

"Episode 2: Bigfoot

It is one of the most enduring unresolved mysteries. Is the missing link between early humans and apes alive today in the dense temperate forests of the Pacific Northwest? In 1967, Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin were investigating reports of Bigfoot/Sasquatch sightings in the Bluff Creek area of Northern California. They struck gold when their film camera captured a 22-second shot of an alleged female Bigfoot before she disappeared into the woods. Most scientists believe that this film record and a set of footprint casts that accompany it are an elaborate hoax. But a few self-proclaimed experts make the opposite, startling claim. To them, it reveals compelling proof of a living human-ape. We consulted with numerous researchers and professionals — from anthropologists to orthopaedic surgeons to a famous special effects makeup artist — to evaluate some of the best evidence. Also, we obtained four casts from the Smithsonian Institution as well as the shaky Patterson-Gimlin film. Using new digital video enhancement and stabilization techniques, as well as the expertise of Stanford University's Gait Laboratory, BEST EVIDENCE examines the film creature's costume, posture and gait frame-by-frame against the movements of an actor in a suit. The results will surprise even the most skeptical viewer.

Premiere: Feb. 1, 2007"

Note there's a picture of Peggy Marx in furs on the website.

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/best-evidence/best-evidence.html

The PGF is nearly a minute.
 
SY is not an investigator. He had a friendly phone conversation with a witness. He was not required to interogate her or her daughter.
That's fine. Having a friendly conversation with a stranger who claims to be a witness is one thing, presenting it here on this board as evidence for bigfoot that 'isn't paltry' is quite another.
 
No, I don't get your point, kitakaze.
Explain in more detail why Joyce not using the word "Bigfoot" in her report has anything to do with anything.

It says nothing whatsoever about my memory concerning her sighting.

Were you playing some kind of technicality word game...or is there a real, and significant point that you were trying to make?
It's hilarious to hear you asking someone else about technicality word games considering how many of your posts consist of semantic quibbling. Doing it a lot doesn't make your artless dodging any better either, Sweaty, but it is amusing to watch you hop and skip every time your silliness is pointed out. Every time you get caught with your pants down you just zip up and act like it never happened.

The reason that I mentioned the fact that Joyce never used the word 'bigfoot' in her report was that it was a small aside to your main inconsistencies concerning your initial recounting of her report and subsequent phone call in which it becomes clear that you were assuming that she did in fact see a bigfoot from the beginning. That you continue to pretend that those main inconsistencies weren't already shown and dwell on that is very telling. This post clearly shows those inconsistencies. The point being that while everyone is subject to fallible memories you add to this by manipulating details to fit your beliefs as is par for the course for BF believers. Your presenting your little chit chat as supportive evidence for bigfoot here and it's a joke.
 
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