"Evolution isn't science"

1)
Population Growth Estimates

Growth of world population during various epochs of earth history can be calculated by a well-known formula:


[qimg]http://www.ldolphin.org/popform.gif[/qimg]​
In this formula Pn is the population after n generations beginning with one man and one woman; n is the number of generations---found by dividing the total time period by the number of years per generation.

The variable x can be thought of as the number of generations that are alive when P(n) is evaluated. Therefore, if x is 2, the generations that are alive are generations n and n-1. This means that only a generation and its parents are alive. It seems reasonable to choose x = 3 most of the time. Taking x = 3 means that when P(n) is evaluated generations n, n-1, and n-2 are all alive.

C is half the number of children in the family. If each family has only two children, the population growth rate is zero, but a reasonable and conservative number of children per family is 2.1 to 2.5 as far as historical records are concerned. (The derivation of the above equation has been added as Note A at the end of this article).

Allowing for famine, disease, war, and disaster, a few sample calculations will show that the earth's population could have easily reached several billions of people between the time of Adam and the time of the flood. It is even quite possible that the preflood population was much higher than it is now.
No, a few simple calculations would show that the population of the earth would be trillions of people, if only your formula was correct.

It isn't.
 
Uh, simple question before we start the graph blooming upward.

Where did Cain get a wife?

Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve recorded in Scripture (Genesis 4:1). His brothers, Abel (Genesis 4:2) and Seth (Genesis 4:25), were part of the first generation of children ever born on this Earth.
Even though only these three males are mentioned by name, Adam and Eve had other children. In Genesis 5:4 a statement sums up the life of Adam and Eve—‘And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.’ This does not say when they were born. Many could have been born in the 130 years (Genesis 5:3) before Seth was born.
 
JF, it might be expedient if you just gave the URL of the creationist website you are getting all your stuff from.

We don't need you as a proxy.

Thanks.
 
Apart from the lack of a global geologic flood layer if every terrestrial species were limited to two individuals, there would be genetic evidence.
When a population is severely low it is known as a genetic bottleneck. Bottlenecks show up in the genes. Different species have different bottleneck times. We have one about 70,00 years ago and pandas have one 35,000 years ago. Keep in mind, these dates come from genes not fossils. Since there is no universal bottlenecking, there was no universal reduction in species population. Since there was no reduction in species population, all but two of every species did not die in a catastrophe.
 

This is a great example of what I'm talking about.... read the Bibliography & Notes.

Example:

"Respecting the Deluge there can be but one opinion: geology fully confirms the scriptural history of the event. Whales, sharks, crocodiles, amphibians, mammoths, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, hyenas, tigers, deer, horses, bullpine families are found buried together in deluvian at a greater or lesser depth and in most instances, under circumstances indicating that they were buried by the same catastrophe which destroyed them, namely a sudden and violent deluge."178, 179

Bibliography:

Sillman, Benjamin, Head of Geology Deptment at Yale University, 1829. Geological Lectures.

1829? They're quoting information from 178 years ago? And this is some of the best evidence for a global flood?
 
No since Christ came we are under a new covenant.

My turn...
1) when the blood of a freshly killed seal at McMurdo Sound in the Antartic was tested with carbon-14 did it show the seal had died 1,300 years later?(y/N)

Answer: I don't know. However, Carbon-14 dating is well-established, even among Creation researchers as being unreliable without sufficient calibration (See e.g., http://www.grisda.org/origins/24050.htm).

My turn:

Q: Does the term "servant" found in the New Testament apply to slaves (Y/N)?
 
There IS another thread in the Religion forum that JF opened in response to requests in this thread that questions about the Bible etc. unrelated to evolution could be dealt with separately. It makes it complicated to have the Cain's wife kind of questions get mixed in with the evolution questions and I would suggest that people post those in the Religion topic (I think it's something like "The Bible is 100% accurate and meant to be read literally). Unfortunately that topic got temporarily derailed by another poster. But maybe JF will go back to that topic too and answer the questions posted there.
JF, are you planning to go back to that topic later? (I realize there are enough issues in this topic to keep you busy for a while.)

(Actually I no longer have much hope for either discussion.)
 
I never said it was the best! He wanted evidence so i quickly gave him some!

So your belief in a global flood is based on old, flimsy evidence?

THINK FOR YOURSELF! What evidence is there for a global flood? Don't just post a link... go to that link, look at their sources and research it.
 
1)
Population Growth Estimates

Growth of world population during various epochs of earth history can be calculated by a well-known formula:


[qimg]http://www.ldolphin.org/popform.gif[/qimg]​
In this formula Pn is the population after n generations beginning with one man and one woman; n is the number of generations---found by dividing the total time period by the number of years per generation.

The variable x can be thought of as the number of generations that are alive when P(n) is evaluated. Therefore, if x is 2, the generations that are alive are generations n and n-1. This means that only a generation and its parents are alive. It seems reasonable to choose x = 3 most of the time. Taking x = 3 means that when P(n) is evaluated generations n, n-1, and n-2 are all alive.

C is half the number of children in the family. If each family has only two children, the population growth rate is zero, but a reasonable and conservative number of children per family is 2.1 to 2.5 as far as historical records are concerned. (The derivation of the above equation has been added as Note A at the end of this article).

Allowing for famine, disease, war, and disaster, a few sample calculations will show that the earth's population could have easily reached several billions of people between the time of Adam and the time of the flood. It is even quite possible that the preflood population was much higher than it is now.

This has nothing to do with my comments. If 1-5 were true, then we could use this formula to figure out how fast my "gradual buildup" in part 6 should be, and then compare the fossil record to the formula. We could even look for ups and downs due to famine, disease, war and disaster.

Your formula is valid, although the results are going to be very crude as it doesn't take all the many variables into account. So lets apply it!

Flood in 2000 BC (more or less)

x = 3
C = 1.25
Time = 1000 years
n = 1000 years / 20 years per generation = 50 generations.

2 * (C ^ (50-3-1) * (C ^ (3-1)) / (C -1) = 671,249 people in 1000 BC.

Hmm, that's going to be a problem. David uniting the Israelites, the Assyrian Empire, the Zhou Dynasty in China, the Babylonian empire, the Trojan war, the founding of Athens.

How about the Exodus? That traditionally was in 1500 BC.
x = 3
C = 1.25
Time = 500 years
n = 25 generations

2 * (C^(21) * (C^2) / (C-1) = 1355 people to follow Moses out of Egypt, be in Pharaoh's army, live in Egypt, and all the rest of the world. I see a problem.
 
Boy those are tough ones but I will say Y to all of them now answer mine please.

1)Are humans still evolving? (Y/N)
2)Did life begin from a pre-biotic soup? (Y/N)
3)Was Nebraska man created from one tooth?(Y/N)
4)Do you like me ?(Y/N)

You don't even get the answers right to a subject you supposedly know well. First the original Questions:

1. Is the Bible historically accurate (Y/N)?

The Bible is not entirely historically accurate. The stories of Moses, the first five books of the bible, were written well after the events they describe. No scientific evidence, no other historical documents, corroborate these books. They were not written at the time of the events. We have no pre-Babel texts in the original human language. There is a children's game called Telephone that demonstrates the way stories change, gain embellishments and lose boring bits, from telling to telling, even with carefully trained story tellers, changes creep in over time. Changes over millennia can be substantial. So the ages listed of the first humans must be considered suspect. These five books were committed to writing over a period of 200 or so years about 500 years before the Christian era - a thousand years, give or take, after the most recent events they described were supposed to happen. It also leaves out entirely the simultaneous history of Asia and the Americas.

Interestingly, even the events of the New Testament have the same issue, though not to the same degree. The earliest works in the new testament were written 30 years after the Crucifixion, most of the books even later. Also, as much as we try, we can't find references to Jesus in secular literature of the time (of course that could be for any number of reasons) and some of the events described that were documented didn't happen exactly on the dates listed in the New Testament.

2. Is the Bible God's law (Y/N)?

The Bible can not completely represent God's Law. I mean, well, which law do we mean? The coming of Jesus is supposed to have relieved mankind from following the old testament laws. Or rather, some of the old laws, but not all. Of course, few Christians can actually recite the old laws well enough to know which ones are supposed to still be followed (many can't even list from memory and in the correct order all 10 Commandments).

3. Is the Bible inerrant (Y/N)?

I think it is safe to say no, the Bible is not inerrant. Not if you try to read it literally. The entire work is literature, with literary license taken when it improved the story. What better way to impress your reader of the greatness of God's creation when the first men lived hundreds of years and you and your contemporaries are lucky to see fifty or sixty. However, it is certainly possible it is an accurate depiction of the mind of the Christian God.

Now, the questions you pose in return:

1)Are humans still evolving? (Y/N)

Yes, humans appear to still be evolving. We've already listed our evidence. Humans may also turn out to be an evolutionary dead end... like the dinosaurs. It's really the cockroach that will inherit the Earth.

2)Did life begin from a pre-biotic soup? (Y/N)

We don't know exactly how life began. After all, we don't claim we know everything. We do understand the things we do know. We understand the facts and the theories we use to explain these facts. We don't pretend to know what we don't. We adjust the theories to explain the facts as new facts arise that disagree with theory. All the facts we know indicate humans are still evolving. This is in direct contrast to fundamental teachings from the Bible - which seldom change to reflect changes to what we know.

3)Was Nebraska man created from one tooth?(Y/N)

This was also answered previously. No, that was a fake, along with Piltdown Man. Science proved it was a fake. No reputable scientists believes otherwise. This is like saying all Christians are bad people just because Kent Hovind is.

4)Do you like me ?(Y/N)

That's a silly question. From here you're just text on a screen. You could be a really nice person or a truly amoral troll. You're challenging me to think about what I know, what I think, and what I believe. By putting these into words I either solidify or discard these ideas. I don't, however, have a personal like or dislike of the person behind the posts under the pseudonym jesus_freak. That'd just be freaky!

Of course, many of us wish your posts were better researched.
 

Please expand, is it because i used the word species instead of kind? The genetic issue is still relevant. Is it because some were represented by seven individuals? The genetic issue is still relevant. Either way the lack of a universal genetic zero point dooms the idea of noah's flood being global and killing everything except what was on the boat.
 
Committed suicide? what Bible verse is that?


It isn't a single verse. It is the entire New Testament. In modern times this is called Suicide-By-Cop (you pull a weapon, when the police also draw theirs you point your weapon at them and they shoot you, just as you planned).
 
Please expand, is it because i used the word species instead of kind? The genetic issue is still relevant. Is it because some were represented by seven individuals? The genetic issue is still relevant. Either way the lack of a universal genetic zero point dooms the idea of noah's flood being global and killing everything except what was on the boat.
sure...you got some of it with the "kind" instead of species, and the seven pairs of clean animals and birds, and the fact that all things that lived in the water did not die and all insects did not die.
 
It isn't a single verse. It is the entire New Testament. In modern times this is called Suicide-By-Cop (you pull a weapon, when the police also draw theirs you point your weapon at them and they shoot you, just as you planned).
__________________
So is it suicide if he knew he would raise from the dead?...this is getting off topic again!
 
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