Kent Hovind gets 10 years

[Tony]

Absolutely. He should have gotten the full 250+. I'm glad we agree.

How long have you been a nazi?

 

[brodski]

How long have you been a nazi?

yes, because one of the most grotesque aspects of National Socialism was their desire to clamp down on fraudsters, give them a fair trial and sentence them to the maximum custodial sentence allowed by laws which where enacted by a democratic regime.
The bastards.


Hovind knew the law (which is why he was making "structured" withdrawals), he broke the law, and in doing so he stole from every single US citizen.
I have no pity for the greedy, thieving bastard.

 

[Tony]

And, to be honest, I don't see why it matters. In most of the United States, schools are funded not by income tax, but by property tax. Why is not paying the income tax that you are legally obliged to pay acceptable while not paying property tax unacceptable?

Huh? When did I ever say it was acceptable?

 

[Tony]

yes, because one of the most grotesque aspects of National Socialism was their desire to clamp down on fraudsters, give them a fair trial and sentence them to the maximum custodial sentence allowed by laws which where enacted by a democratic regime.
The bastards.

Ah ha, so you're a nazi too. What else should happen to people when they break petty laws? Let me guess, we should cut the hands off any kid who dares to steal a candy bar?

I know!!! Let's throw anyone in prison who refuses to pledge alleigence to the flag. After all, they deserve it right?. This is a free country, they need to recognize.

Hovind knew the law (which is why he was making "structured" withdrawals), he broke the law, and in doing so he stole from every single US citizen.

No he didn't. This is propaganda. He didn't steal a thing.

I have no pity for the greedy, thieving bastard.

I know, scum like you rarely have pity for those who suffer injustice at the hands of policies with which you agree.


It's interesting to watch a bunch of self proclaimed free-thinkers turn into rabid totalitarians when someone they don't like comes before the law. Guess what, I think "Dr" Dino is a douchebag too, but that isn't reason enough for him to be sent to prison.

 

[kmortis]

Ah ha, so you're a nazi too. What else should happen to people when they break petty laws? Let me guess, we should cut the hands off any kid who dares to steal a candy bar?

I know!!! Let's throw anyone in prison who refuses to pledge alleigence to the flag. After all, they deserve it right?. This is a free country, they need to recognize.



No he didn't. This is propaganda. He didn't steal a thing.



I know, scum like you rarely have pity for those who suffer injustice at the hands of policies with which you agree.


It's interesting to watch a bunch of self proclaimed free-thinkers turn into rabid totalitarians when someone they don't like comes before the law. Guess what, I think "Dr" Dino is a douchebag too, but that isn't reason enough for him to be sent to prison.

Lemme guess, Tony, you don't think paying taxes is legal?

 

[Chris Haynes]

None of those services are funded by income taxes. So this is irrellevant.



Lying to people about a false god isn't illegal.

Federal income taxes pay for interstates, the FAA, the FDA, the policing of interstate commerce, protection of ports, and regulation of radio airwaves and a bunch of other stuff you really don't think about (along with the salary of my relatives in the US Military and another working for the State Department overseas).

Unless you are willing to not use any federally paid highway, stay away from airports and refuse to buy anything imported, or that is from another state... oh, and refuse any and all help if you are a victim of a natural disaster like a hurricane or earthquake... I guess it is okay to not want to pay federal taxes.

Personally, I'd like to see folks like Hovind live in their own little enclave and be completely cut off from anything that has just a smidgen of federal support. That includes anything that has any federal regulation, like phone service, medications, motor vehicles, gasoline, postal service, radiowaves and definitely the use of roads beyond ones paid for with local property/sales taxes.

But, sadly, he is going to be using federal funds when he is held in a federal prison for ten years. Perhaps he should just be put on a bare island and just appeal to God, his employer, to provide all his needs. Of course, no human should be told of his location other than the folks who drop him off there.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I find it amusing in such situations like these where people like Hovind are being punished for something completely unrelated to the reason why most of the people who posted in this thread dislike him are absolutely ravenous and aggressive and happy to see him put away. Most of you people are self professed 'skeptics' and 'critical thinkers' but you jump at the first chance to go for the throat when a man whom you disagree with is being punished for something totally unrelated to your disagreement.

Kent Hovind may be a delusional, gullible and overall uncritical person but I don't consider him to be a "bad person", he believes what he says. I disagree with most of what he says but I try to never hold a personal grudge against someone for having an opinion. He is being punished for tax fraud and that in no way has anything to do with my disagreements with him.

I know that if some random person were being prosecuted for tax fraud we wouldn't see any of the dirty comments we've seen about Hovind directed toward them. I laugh at the sheer hypocrisy of many of the people who posted such comments as they 'hoped Hovind is raped in prison' or "he deserves to spend 250 years in prison' etc. I believe that most of the malicious remarks toward Hovind in this thread are from people who couldn't care less about his Tax fraud, They're just happy to have him shut up and not preaching anymore.

 

[Chris Haynes]

.... I believe that most of the malicious remarks toward Hovind in this thread are from people who couldn't care less about his Tax fraud, They're just happy to have him shut up and not preaching anymore.

Hey, I'm for going after the tax fraud. It is really what got Al Capone in the end.

But, then again... I used to be paid with federal tax dollars. I worked for a company that made military aircraft (sorry, I cannot give any details because I left before the program was declassified... a week later). And that is what paid my dad when I was a kid, I was an Army brat.

Oh, and since the income to our house is dependent on international trade with an international corporation that is governed by the international law, the State Department (that employs a sibling), and since lots of that is paid through federal taxes for the USA end... I guess I am going after the tax fraud bit.

Also, when my dad attended the Command and General Staff College in Ft. Leavenworth I learned that Eastern Kansas has lots of prisons. Not only the Military Prison, but a federal prison (along with a couple of Kansas state prisons... word of warning, do not pick up hitchhikers in that area north of Kansas City!):
http://www.lvarea.com/data/prison.htm
(darn... I thought I remember seeing a sign for a Kansas State Women's Prison there some cough, cough 40 years ago! It may have moved)

 

[Questioninggeller]

I find it amusing in such situations like these where people like Hovind are being punished for something completely unrelated to the reason why most of the people who posted in this thread dislike him are absolutely ravenous and aggressive and happy to see him put away. Most of you people are self professed 'skeptics' and 'critical thinkers' but you jump at the first chance to go for the throat when a man whom you disagree with is being punished for something totally unrelated to your disagreement.

I don't think you really see how Hovind's creationism is linked to his tax evasion.

This tax case is related to the reasons why people dislike him. Such as Hovind failing to do research to understand something he protests, being proven wrong and unable to admit it, the charges are from making money from creationist enterprises, criticizing/obstructing/harrassing people he disagrees with (in this case a federal agent), lying about his assets/motivation, and then having his son ask for donations to keep his "creationist ministry alive" the day he was sentenced.

His inability to be honest, understand, and come to terms with reality are shown in both his tax case and creationist claims. In fact, this is a great example of how disconnected he is from reality without having to explain scientific arguments to those who refuse to take the time to research the claims.

Think ten years is enough time to figure something out? He's been in trouble for not paying taxes since 1997. It is now 2007. http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/18/State/Biblical_theme_park_s.shtml

Biblical theme park's finances investigated
The government says "Dr. Dino" owes taxes dating back to 1997.
By Associated Press
Published April 18, 2004

PENSACOLA - Internal Revenue Service agents are investigating a man who runs a creationist theme park and museum here, saying he owes taxes on proceeds of more than $1-million.
...
In a sworn statement to obtain a search warrant, IRS agent Scott Schneider said none of Hovind's enterprises has a business license or tax-exempt status as a nonprofit entity.

"Since 1997, Hovind has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1 million per year during some of these years, which would require the filing of federal income taxes," Schneider said.
...
[Full article]

 

[Chris Haynes]

... http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/18/State/Biblical_theme_park_s.shtml

From that website "Hovind referred questions about his business practices to Glen Stoll, director of Remedies at Law, an Edmonds, Wash., firm that represents him and his operations, including Dinosaur Adventure Land, Faith Baptist Church, Creation Science Evangelism and CSE Enterprises. "

That is the same Glen Stoll that claims to be a lawyer because he just decided to be one. He decided to forego the going to law school nonsense, oh, and passig the bar exam. He says he is a lawyer --- just because!

More on Stoll:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/212422_corpsole17.html
From that story "Stevens was arrested at the compound during a federal raid in August 1993 and was released nearly a month later after refusing to sign documents for his release. Both he and Stoll have been arrested for driving unregistered vehicles sporting Embassy of Heaven license plates."

Unfortunately to get to their compound in Oregon from Edmonds, WA required them to drive down a federally funded interstate highway... for which they thought they did not have to pay to use.

Plus: http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv05223.htm

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Federal income taxes pay for interstates, the FAA, the FDA, the policing of interstate commerce, protection of ports, and regulation of radio airwaves and a bunch of other stuff you really don't think about (along with the salary of my relatives in the US Military and another working for the State Department overseas).

Unless you are willing to not use any federally paid highway, stay away from airports and refuse to buy anything imported, or that is from another state... oh, and refuse any and all help if you are a victim of a natural disaster like a hurricane or earthquake... I guess it is okay to not want to pay federal taxes.

Personally, I'd like to see folks like Hovind live in their own little enclave and be completely cut off from anything that has just a smidgen of federal support. That includes anything that has any federal regulation, like phone service, medications, motor vehicles, gasoline, postal service, radiowaves and definitely the use of roads beyond ones paid for with local property/sales taxes.

But, sadly, he is going to be using federal funds when he is held in a federal prison for ten years. Perhaps he should just be put on a bare island and just appeal to God, his employer, to provide all his needs. Of course, no human should be told of his location other than the folks who drop him off there.

I don't think you really see how Hovind's creationism is linked to his tax evasion.

This tax case is related to the reasons why people dislike him. Such as Hovind failing to do research to understand something he protests, being proven wrong and unable to admit it, the charges are from making money from creationist enterprises, criticizing/obstructing/harrassing people he disagrees with (in this case a federal agent), lying about his assets/motivation, and then having his son ask for donations to keep his "creationist ministry alive" the day he was sentenced.

His inability to be honest, understand, and come to terms with reality are shown in both his tax case and creationist claims. In fact, this is a great example of how disconnected he is from reality without having to explain scientific arguments to those who refuse to take the time to research the claims.

Think ten years is enough time to figure something out? He's been in trouble for not paying taxes since 1997. It is now 2007. http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/18/State/Biblical_theme_park_s.shtml

I doubt Hovind realizes anything he did was against the law or ever meant to commit a crime. Even with his conversation to his own wife he said he didn't know what he was going to jail for. So what you're blaming him for is not "Dishonesty" to anyone (other than maybe himself) but not agreeing with what you agree with.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I doubt Hovind realizes anything he did was against the law or ever meant to commit a crime. Even with his conversation to his own wife he said he didn't know what he was going to jail for. So what you're blaming him for is not "Dishonesty" to anyone (other than maybe himself) but not agreeing with what you agree with.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You hate him because he holds an opinion different from yours and you celebrate his being imprisoned because you disagree with him not because of his crime.

 

[Liken]

I doubt Hovind realizes anything he did was against the law or ever meant to commit a crime. Even with his conversation to his own wife he said he didn't know what he was going to jail for.

Let me get this straight: by your reasoning because Hovind told his WIFE that he doesn't know why he's being prosecuted, he's most likely telling the TRUTH? 'Cus, you know, nobody lies to their spouse, especially in times of crisis. HA HA HA HA! You just made my day.

Nope, there's no way we can exclude his claim of tax ignorance from the long list of things Hovind has KNOWINGLY lied about and, until this point, gotten away with.

I don't see any problem debating sentencing (10 years sounds about right to me, however) but if as soon as you start thinking to yourself "hey, maybe this guy really is just ignorant about tax laws," then you might as well start believing that he's really just ignorant about AIDS, cancer treatments, dinosaurs in the bible, phony doctorates and so on. Yeah, he must be the dumbest guy on earth.

I think so many people here are feeling a deep sense of shadenfreude now because nobody likes a liar regardless of the lie. Also, and I say this to some of you [Texas?] folk out there: hoarding hundreds of thousands of dollars that belong to the American people is NOT a "petty" crime.

 

[Cuddles]

I doubt Hovind realizes anything he did was against the law or ever meant to commit a crime. Even with his conversation to his own wife he said he didn't know what he was going to jail for. So what you're blaming him for is not "Dishonesty" to anyone (other than maybe himself) but not agreeing with what you agree with.

Of course he knew it was against the law. Why do you think he tried all the get-arounds like structured withdrawals? If he didn't know he was breaking the law then the last 10 years should have taught him otherwise, yet he still claims he doesn't know he was doing anything wrong. He is a liar and a fraud, and this is why most of us don't like him, whether he is lying about creationism or lying about his money.

 

[Dr Adequate]

I was thinking that maybe we could compile a playlist for Hovind to put on a CD so that he can while away the hours..

How about some Pink Floyd?

You think that the Earth is so young, you're incredibly dumb.
Whine on, you crazy Hovind.
Now you've had such a surprise, from the IRS guys.
Whine on, you crazy Hovind.
You were caught by the tax laws, you didn't regard 'em;
shown up as real sleaze.
Come on you target for faraway laughter,
come on you faker, you wannabe martyr, and whine!

You went shooting your mouth off too soon, you behaved like a loon.
Whine on, you crazy Hovind.
Threatened by folks who are right, and exposed to the light.
Whine on, you crazy Hovind.
Well you filled out your tax forms with lack of precision;
shown up as real sleaze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you prater, you griper, you sniveller, and whine!

 

[brodski]

Ah ha, so you're a nazi too.

Well, I am wearing a brown shirt to work today.
Of course you seem to have defined Nazi as "anyone who dares to disagree with you".

What else should happen to people when they break petty laws? Let me guess, we should cut the hands off any kid who dares to steal a candy bar?

No, I live in a civilised society, where corporal and capital punishment are banned.

I know!!! Let's throw anyone in prison who refuses to pledge alleigence to the flag. After all, they deserve it right?. This is a free country, they need to recognize.

When you can find an amendment to the constitution which specifically gives the government power to force people to pledge allegiance, then we can talk. Until then all you've got is so much straw.

No he didn't. This is propaganda. He didn't steal a thing.

Yes he did. If He had gone to a resturant and eaten, but not paid- he would have stolen the meal. If he had gone to the cinema and watched a film without paying, he would have stolen the film watching experience. He didn't pay his taxes, he stole the privileges of living in a civilised society. Soceity provides a service and demands payment, he took want he wanted and the refused to pay, he's a thief.

I know, scum like you rarely have pity for those who suffer injustice at the hands of policies with which you agree.

Will you please stop throwing insults aground. I know you haven't got a coherent argument, but there really is no need to underline that fact so forcibly.
There was no injustice, taxation of income is legal. Avoiding taxation is illegal, and must be illegal if society is to function. Hovind broke the law, and was convicted on the evidence which he did not contest and sentenced accordingly.

It's interesting to watch a bunch of self proclaimed free-thinkers turn into rabid totalitarians when someone they don't like comes before the law. Guess what, I think "Dr" Dino is a douchebag too, but that isn't reason enough for him to be sent to prison.

If Randi, or Dawkins or (a more likely scenario) Penn where convicted for tax evasion on this scale I would cheer too. Because tax evasion and especially "tax protestors" are not just property crimes, they are fundamentally attacking the very basis of society.

The fact that this hypocrite often complained about the way "his taxes" where spent is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Liken]

Huh? When did I ever say it was acceptable?

Tony, you don't directly claim that not paying income tax is "acceptable" behavior, but then you say:

I know, scum like you rarely have pity for those who suffer injustice at the hands of policies with which you agree.

Injustice is a strong word, and it's the crux of your argument. So, without calling me a Nazi too, can you explain how Hovind's case is an example of "injustice"? Are you claiming, like Hovind, that somebody had an ax to grind here?

[In other words, do you really believe what you implied here:

I think "Dr" Dino is a douchebag too, but that isn't reason enough for him to be sent to prison.

i.e. do you ACTUALLY believe that he was sent to prison simply for being a douchebag, not for evading taxation?]

Or is conviction itself an injustice? If so, why? Is the sentence inappropriate? What's an appropriate sentence in your opinion? That answered, what knowledge, experience or insight qualifies you more than the judge and prosecution of Hovind's case?

From someone with nearly 10,000 posts I expect real arguments--not insults.

 

[SimonD]

None of those services are funded by income taxes. So this is irrellevant..

You missed the point that taxes go towards to maintaining society. If you don't want to pay your taxes go live in the mountains some where you don't have to contribute

Lying to people about a false god isn't illegal.

So you agree that he was lying. I guess we agree on something.
Lying about your taxes is....hence his sentence

 

[SimonD]

I know, scum like you rarely have pity for those who suffer injustice at the hands of policies with which you agree.

It's interesting to watch a bunch of self proclaimed free-thinkers turn into rabid totalitarians when someone they don't like comes before the law. Guess what, I think "Dr" Dino is a douchebag too, but that isn't reason enough for him to be sent to prison.

Nice one buddy!! What ever happend to "love your enemy" and "turn the other cheek".

Such wit !!