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This is the thread that may very well change the way you look at 9/11 FOREVER!

28th Kingdom said:
Fact is....BOTH of these 110 story buildings...no wait 3 buildings including the WTC 7 (NO plane impact and it fell just as fast) are collapsing at near free fall speeds (NIST even admits to this claim) which has never been witnessed outside of some kind of CD. Never been witnessed on one building collapse...let alone three ON THE SAME DAY!
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28th... all buildings collapse at "near free fall speeds". It's not a characteristic of controlled demolition at all; at their scale, building are precision construction; they are designed with some tollerance in mind but as soon as one part fail catastrophically the rest will follow up and no engineering will stop it from falling at anything other than "near free fall" speed (whatever that means).
 
Skibum said:
Oh dear lord, here we go with the near free fall speed garbage.
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Here's some more horse**** straight from the horses mouth

6. How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?
NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A).
As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that:
“… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation.
Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.”
In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.
From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely. Source: NIST FAQhttp://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
 
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28th Kingdom said:
9/11 is a crime...I'm investigating it like a crime...by trying to find out who did it. You people are off in the woods drawing up F****** pie charts and god**** schematics - talking about the meaning of thermal accelerations...and potential energy. IS THIS GONNA help you find the criminal? I'm looking for clues...and motives...and evidence that doesn't involve a degree in structural engineering. I DON'T need a F****** degree in Engineering to solve a crime, understand?

You people call yourselves skeptics and critical thinkers...yet, you have a belief that anyone who opposes NIST is WRONG...and crazy and an idiot cult member. WHY? BECAUSE we oppose the official story?

You people are followers...CTist are independent thinkers...they think outside the box...they don't need SOME EXPERT to hand them their opinion.

I don't think you people have any clue to the fact that...you'll NEVER come up with your own conclusions....because they're too heavily influenced by what the EXPERTS say. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY to do any critical thinking in this situation....because even if you did conclude things that didn't mirror NIST's report...you will keep working until your theory CONFORMS to whatever they say...because surely if you don't CONFORM...you are some nut on the outside of society...and who wants to be that, right?
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Err excuse me, do you really think we are all gullible sheeple just because we don't believe in your tin-foil hat theories!

I came to the conclusion that WTC wasn't brought down by a controlled demolition way before the NIST investigation, in fact it's never looked like a controlled demolition to me. The collapse started at the impact and fire zone on each tower, both towers collapsed at the correct time based on the weight of the structure above the weakened area, the second tower hit collapsed first because the plane hit much lower down. When each tower finally did collapse what we saw was to be expected because the forces involved were immense and way above any building collapse, or controlled demoliton for that matter, we'd seen before.

We often quote the NIST investigation because it's very well documented and just so happens to back up, from a scientific and structural engineering point-of-view, what we all know to be correct.

Why don't you show us all your equivalent investigation that came to the conclusion that the WTC was brought down by a controlled demolition?
 
28th Kingdom said:
Well if the squibs are shooting off 30 floors below the collapse...wouldn't that mean they are shooting off before the collapse? Those lower floors weren't collapsing...
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What happens when you apply thousands of tons of collapsing floors above an empty space with air? Where is that air going to go? Out through passages of least resistance.

That means air blows out of hte windows.

YOu still avoided the fact that they happen AFTER collapse initiated and that squibs in CD always.ALWAYS. happen moments prior to collapse.

since you love YOUtube, so much, YOU might want to search their videos for controlled demolition and watch them closely


Evidence? (Cutter-charge ring of smoke)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7886/cuttersm8.jpg
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Please illustrate where this "rink of smoke" is within that picutre. Cause all i see is a building on fire.
 
28th Kingdom said:
I love being right...God it feeeeels goood being right...I am crushing you guys in this debate.....hahahahahahaha - People actually believe the NIST - yea, let's ask a criminal if they are guilty of committing a crime. Hey, Criminal are you guilty of committing a crime....Nope, The Unicorns on Floors 28-62 did it. Okay...thanks - just wondering.
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That's RIGHT, it was UNICORNS, just like this one destroying my kitchen!

94904557a151eaf2f.jpg


Stinking Unicorns, always thinking of themselves, the b@$t@rd$!
 
28th Kingdom said:
Here's some more horse**** straight from the horses mouth

6. How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?
NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A).
As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that:
“… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation.
Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.”
In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.
From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.


Source: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
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I'd do this fanny a proper technical explanation, but he'd just ignore it like to nutter he is.

Apologies for reaking the decorum rules; blame it on the Naproxsyn (sp?)
 
"In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass."

Increasing mass? Huh, so WAIT A MINUTE...they are claiming some kind of pancake collapse. I CALL FRAUD!
 
28th Kingdom said:
"In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass."

Increasing mass? Huh, so WAIT A MINUTE...they are claiming some kind of pancake collapse. I CALL FRAUD!
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I call Macaroon!
 
ZouPrime said:
28th... all buildings collapse at "near free fall speeds". It's not a characteristic of controlled demolition at all; at their scale, building are precision construction; they are designed with some tollerance in mind but as soon as one part fail catastrophically the rest will follow up and no engineering will stop it from falling at anything other than "near free fall" speed (whatever that means).
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Also, it is a characteristic of controlled demolition that the structural integrity of the building fails (as a result of the explosions) and the potential energy in the building is converted into kinetic energy by gravity. This what does the work of destroying the building. If the structural integrity of the building fails for a different reason the resulting global collapse may look similar but it won't be immediately proceeded by a number of large, loud explosions that can be clearly heard and seen (as flashes) and which would register on a seismograph.

Again, this is a controlled demolition:

 
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Skibum said:
Wrong, that photo was taken after the collapse began.
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Are you a F****** moron? I'm not calling you one...I'm just asking if you are one?

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7886/cuttersm8.jpg

WHAT PART OF NOTHING HAS COLLAPSED....don't you understand? HOW MUCH TIME do you think there is between the time the cutter-charge goes and collapse begins? IN real time...you will probably miss it....but in a pic, you can clearly see nothing is collapsing yet.
 
I don't know, 28th. Why don't you do the maths and show us your detailed calculations?


(Aye, right, like that'll ever happen)
 
~enigma~ said:
Oh...let me...

It is an egyptian weapon for poking a hole in the base of an infidels skull and then extracting the brain with the spring. The T handle is to insure a non-slip handhold :)
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Oh I wish.

For PD, who as not got a clue what he is talking about, it is a welders chipping hammer. They use them to chip away the crap from the ends of burnt metal when they burnt it off other metal.

PD is all confused and thinks welding and burning is the same process. It is not, as has been pointed out to him.

Welding steel together is a totally different process to burning steel apart; the results are not the same. When steel is burn apart the cut is not clean and the ends of the cuts are not clean, they are covered in crap, to put it simply. To weld recently burnt steel back together they have to be cleaned, normally with chipping hammers and occasionally will metal grinders.

PD, welding and burning is NOT the same, they are different.

Oh I see he now moved on from this and going on about squibs, oh well, more and more pages of crap to come.
 
28th Kingdom said:
How'd they plant everything with out no one noticing? Larry Silverstein the owner is in on the attacks...he owed the building...which means he had full access to it...Bush's brother was a principal for the company (Securacom) who did security on the WTC.

Are the WTCs residences? No...office building...do you think all of those companies were 24 hours? No...thus, they could have easily pulled off all the work at night, when everyone was gone.
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How did they get the thermite or other charges close to the columns when they were obstructed by cladding as shown in this photo?
http://debunking911.com/cut2.jpg

and this is a lance at work on the WTC site

http://debunking911.com/cut.jpg

also you haven't answered my question about your claim that thermite was used to cut this column at an angle so it would kick out

http://debunking911.com/angcut.jpg

But if that were true wouldn't the 'thermite iron slag" as you call it on the "TOP of the column" be scraped away by both the collapse and the sliding/scraping action of the upper portion thats missing?? I know these details annoy you as over analyzing but hey.. you brought them up in the first place as your evidence.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Are you a F****** moron? I'm not calling you one...I'm just asking if you are one?

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7886/cuttersm8.jpg

WHAT PART OF NOTHING HAS COLLAPSED....don't you understand? HOW MUCH TIME do you think there is between the time the cutter-charge goes and collapse begins? IN real time...you will probably miss it....but in a pic, you can clearly see nothing is collapsing yet.
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Since you're the youtube king watch the video that photo is taken from, the building clearly started falling before the dust is blown out of the collapse zone.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Are you a F****** moron? I'm not calling you one...I'm just asking if you are one?

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7886/cuttersm8.jpg

WHAT PART OF NOTHING HAS COLLAPSED....don't you understand? HOW MUCH TIME do you think there is between the time the cutter-charge goes and collapse begins? IN real time...you will probably miss it....but in a pic, you can clearly see nothing is collapsing yet.
Click to expand...

That would be Infinite time since there weren't any cutter charges!

Are you a delusional, retarded imbecile? I'm not calling you one...I'm just asking if you are one?
 
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