This is the thread that may very well change the way you look at 9/11 FOREVER!

[28th Kingdom]

SHOW me where...a torch can make a smooth cut like that on steel...and leave behind MOLTEN metal on TOP of the steel beam. That black stuff is NOT melted steel from the column...it's cooled iron from the thermite reaction that was ON top of the column.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2271/thermiteut7.jpg

Remember, how I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down (although the exterior of the building was blasted outwards) Well, that's why the columns were cut at an angle....because if they would have cut them completely horizontal...the force of gravity...would try to push the split column down upon itself. (not very effective...as trying to push solid steel through solid steel - kind of defies the laws of the physical world) However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

 

[Horatius]

So, the thread that will change the way I think about 9/11 boils down to the same old, same old, by an egotistical CT'er, who cannot (or will not) ever acknowledge when he is in error, knows more than anyone ever in the history of the world, can determine the contents of a molten stream of material just by looking at it, etc. ad infinitum.

You're right. I have changed my outlook. I now know for an absolute fact it's a total waste of time to do anything but mock you, because you are totally immune to reason, logic, and are so full of yourself you cannot acknowledge when someone else is correct.

What a maroon!

Agreed. It also helps to post cat pictures.

 

[Skibum]

So, the thread that will change the way I think about 9/11 boils down to the same old, same old, by an egotistical CT'er, who cannot (or will not) ever acknowledge when he is in error, knows more than anyone ever in the history of the world, can determine the contents of a molten stream of material just by looking at it, etc. ad infinitum.

You're right. I have changed my outlook. I now know for an absolute fact it's a total waste of time to do anything but mock you, because you are totally immune to reason, logic, and are so full of yourself you cannot acknowledge when someone else is correct.

What a maroon!

LOL, thats why I tend to stick to one liners.
After dealing with CT nitwits for 2 years, I realized its pretty much a waste of time to actually debate them.

 

[Architect]

Remember, how I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down (although the exterior of the building was blasted outwards) Well, that's why the columns were cut at an angle....because if they would have cut them completely horizontal...the force of gravity...would try to push the split column down upon itself. (not very effective...as trying to push solid steel through solid steel - kind of defies the laws of the physical world) However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

I've responded to this already. try reading posts.

 

[Miss Anthrope]

So, the thread that will change the way I think about 9/11 boils down to the same old, same old, by an egotistical CT'er, who cannot (or will not) ever acknowledge when he is in error, knows more than anyone ever in the history of the world, can determine the contents of a molten stream of material just by looking at it, etc. ad infinitum.

You're right. I have changed my outlook. I now know for an absolute fact it's a total waste of time to do anything but mock you, because you are totally immune to reason, logic, and are so full of yourself you cannot acknowledge when someone else is correct.

What a maroon!

Actually, this thread did change the way I look at 911. Seriously. Because after seeing all the crazy dog-chasing-the-tail threads before it, this really drilled into me just how strange human nature can be. And how people will obsess on things just to feel right and bright.

I used to think only religion did this. I knew some people who loved the bible because they could quote it and no matter what, in their head they were the correct and smart ones. They always won the argument--in their mind, anyway They loved that verse about the bible can't contradict itself.

Now I see this fact applied to other areas. I know that there is some need to feel "in the know" and see more, even when there is not. I now see how a closed mind works in other circles.

I now know why people watch mindless TV all day and crappy Hollywood movies have so much funding.

Thanks 28th. I'm enlightened. Truly.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Remember, how I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down (although the exterior of the building was blasted outwards) Well, that's why the columns were cut at an angle....because if they would have cut them completely horizontal...the force of gravity...would try to push the split column down upon itself. (not very effective...as trying to push solid steel through solid steel - kind of defies the laws of the physical world) However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

Support your claims or stfu.

 

[Horatius]

However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

So, then, maybe you could explain why the column just to the right of that one is cut horizontally?

Since you're so smart 'n stuff.

 

[Timble]

Remember, how I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down (although the exterior of the building was blasted outwards) Well, that's why the columns were cut at an angle....because if they would have cut them completely horizontal...the force of gravity...would try to push the split column down upon itself. (not very effective...as trying to push solid steel through solid steel - kind of defies the laws of the physical world) However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

Where's the thermite cutting device? References? How do you get a powder which will tend to flow downhill to cut at an angle and so cleanly?

You'd cut a girder like that with a torch to be sure it fell the way you wanted during clean-up.

 

[DavidJames]

Remember, how I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down (although the exterior of the building was blasted outwards) Well, that's why the columns were cut at an angle....because if they would have cut them completely horizontal...the force of gravity...would try to push the split column down upon itself. (not very effective...as trying to push solid steel through solid steel - kind of defies the laws of the physical world) However, if you cut it at an angle...like this pic...than once the cut is made, gravity can pull the split column in a downward direction.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is all a put on. Is 28 really a shill trying to make the CTists look like idiots?

 

[Miss Anthrope]

Where's the thermite cutting device? References? How do you get a powder which will tend to flow downhill to cut at an angle and so cleanly?

You'd cut a girder like that with a torch to be sure it fell the way you wanted during clean-up.

Hey Timble--

Your educated responses to this have been so clean and concise--thanks, you've provided some useful info I haven't seen before in response to this stuff.

 

[rikzilla]

Anyone here have a forum account @ discovery.com? I tried to register there so that I could suggest a "mythbuster" episode, b ut for some reason its not going through. I think it'd be cool if Jamie and Adam try to craft a thermite dispenser that slices through vertical columns of iron. If they manage it then they'd need to make one that also consumes itself leaving no evidence of its use.

I'm thinking it'd be pretty good tv...better even if they invite a few "scholars" on to provide technical assistance and quotable silliness.

-z

 

[JimBenArm]

Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is all a put on. Is 28 really a shill trying to make the CTists look like idiots?

If he is, it's working!

 

[~enigma~]

Dave,

28 isn't going to answer you about the shaped charges he claims, at least he is not going to answer truthfully so I will. Shaped charges do exist but they are not as Steven Jones claims for thermite. Shaped charges are generally metal or glass that is filled with high energy and high density EXPLOSIVES. The metal or glass cone has an opening (usually linear) that directs the blast with approximately 3 million PSI. A shaped charge with 3 million PSI can "cut" steel up to 20 cm or so. Thermite is not used in demolition of vertical beams nor is anything other than explosives needed to "cut" steel. Steven Jones and everybody who believes his bs is stupid.

 

[28th Kingdom]

Assertive and arrogant (as some of you are claiming I am) are two completely different things...so you need to make that distinction. Just, because I refuse to be treated unkindly...doesn't make me arrogant...it just means I respect myself...just like I respect all of you and your opinions.

I'm NOT your enemy....I don't even know why you want to make me that. I'm here to be your friend...I want to unite people so that the victims of 9/11 can have some JUSTICE for what was done to them.

Don't you all understand....that virtually ALL so-called, "9/11 Truthers," (minus maybe Alex Jones) believed, wholeheartedly...the official story of OBL and 19 hijackers, when 9/11 first happened? I mean, we had no logical reason to believe otherwise...

HOWEVER, in the last few years... with all of the data and analysis that has poured in...I mean, if one cannot plainly see what happened on 9/11 after taking in all of the overwhelming evidence...than I don't know what to say. All, I know is that it's possible to switch your belief about what happened on 9/11, because I have...and so have millions of others.

Please, just try and be objective...read over everything I have said...and do the right thing.

 

[Horatius]

I'm thinking it'd be pretty good tv...better even if they invite a few "scholars" on to provide technical assistance and quotable silliness.

-z

We figured out that they wouldn't touch the subject with a ten foot pole.

 

[chacal]

Hello, sir...thanks for writing. This post covers it all:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2171782#post2171782

Now, before some of you say, that molten aluminum can also be red or yellow-orangish/red...well, yes - you are absolutely right. See, any molten metal can glow red or yellow-orangish/red if heated to a hot enough temperature...and that would be around 2400°C. So while a jet-fuel fire, which has a maximum burning temperature at around 1100°C - has the ability to liquefy aluminum (which has a melting point of only 660°C) the problem here is that it's scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for a jet-fuel based fire to create yellow-orangish/red molten aluminum, because as I have stated you need extreme heat in order to give the clear molten aluminum a yellow-orangish/red glow. The only way to really accomplish this (turning molten aluminum - red) would be to heat it in some type of furnace.

And what would be your source on this statement that for aluminum to appear red hot it would have to be around 2400°C?

 

[aggle-rithm]

SHOW me where...a torch can make a smooth cut like that on steel...and leave behind MOLTEN metal on TOP of the steel beam. That black stuff is NOT melted steel from the column...it's cooled iron from the thermite reaction that was ON top of the column.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2271/thermiteut7.jpg

Which type of thermite do you think was used:

1. The "pure" thermite that could withstand the heat of the fires in the buildings that collapsed, but was not volatile enough to cut through steel beams, or

2. The juiced up thermite (thermate and other, more speculative compounds) that could cut through the beams but would have ignited as soon as the fires started?

 

[Minadin]

I was talking about the core columns being vertical to the ground...which meant they would have had to basically telescope down on themselves...because of the way the towers collapsed straight down

Telescope down? Telescope down. Are you serious? No other way that they could fall at all, that involved anything besides them folding into each other / hammerspace? (such as connections being severed by the many various shear forces, the columns breaking into their original lengths pre-construction, and then falling due to gravity)

I mean, if the only way for them to come straight down if for them to fold into each other, which you say is physically impossible, then how do they get the structure to come straight down in a real controlled demolition? More hammerspace physics?

 

[~enigma~]

Dave,

28 isn't going to answer you about the shaped charges he claims, at least he is not going to answer truthfully so I will. Shaped charges do exist but they are not as Steven Jones claims for thermite. Shaped charges are generally metal or glass that is filled with high energy and high density EXPLOSIVES. The metal or glass cone has an opening (usually linear) that directs the blast with approximately 3 million PSI. A shaped charge with 3 million PSI can "cut" steel up to 20 cm or so. Thermite is not used in demolition of vertical beams nor is anything other than explosives needed to "cut" steel. Steven Jones and everybody who believes his bs is stupid.

C'mon 28 old boy, debunk this. I dare you...I double dare you.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

SHOW me where...a torch can make a smooth cut like that on steel...and leave behind MOLTEN metal on TOP of the steel beam. That black stuff is NOT melted steel from the column...it's cooled iron from the thermite reaction that was ON top of the column.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2271/thermiteut7.jpg

The black stuff is commonly refered to as slag you silly, silly man.

Oxygen cutting is more partial disintegration than cutting. It relies on the fact that when steel is heated in the presence of oxygen it will combine with the oxygen to form a magnetic oxide (slag).

http://www.meg.co.uk/meg/app05.htm

What blows me completely away by this is every time I read through these threads I learn something new. The level of expertise and knowledge of JREF regulars is incredible. Why can't you just take advantage of that. This is NOT Loose Change.

r u that dum?

ETA: Hey whats with the felines people? I get the socks. I get woowoo. I don't get the kittys.