What do I stand to get from Buddhism?

[Piggy]

I just hope that the JREF Forum remain true to the ideal of free thought and free speech, and make sure that not even closet or meditation Buddhists get to be moderators and administrators here.

Whoa, hoss. Just because you decided to disparage Buddhism on a Buddhist community board whose mission is different from ours and which doesn't allow anti-Buddhists to join, please don't generalize that experience to all Buddhists everywhere.

For JREF to bar Buddhists from becoming mods or admins would not be any sort of victory for free speech. It would be mere bigotry.

 

[SirPhilip]

What do I stand to get from Buddhism? What does any Buddhist stand to get from Buddhism? What does Gautama stand to get from preaching Buddhism?

Is this a trick question, sort of like: "What does anyone stand to get from a Yrreg post?"

 

[Mephisto]

I had been to several other forums taking pride and outspoken about free thought and free speech, but when I wrote against Buddhism and Buddhists the way and even more diplomatically than I write here, I got thrown out by the ears.

Small wonder. Oftentimes people with your outspoken convictions become tiresome quickly and I imagine this is even true among pacifists.

I wonder why you don't chose Islam to complain about? Are you chicken?

 

[Dancing David]

Duplicity is it's own reward.

 

[Dancing David]

You were warned earlier not to disparage the Buddha or his Teachings on this Buddhist List, and you were told what the penalty would be.

Choices and consequences.

 

[Piggy]

Choices and consequences.

Exactly. The fact that the board was called E-Sangha should have been a clue.

Obviously, the purpose of this board is to provide a community for Buddhists.

I wouldn't go into a church and start telling people why the Bible is wrong. I wouldn't go into the break room at work and start telling people they shouldn't be Xian. It's not the (or my) place to do that.

I am outspoken about religion here because this is a skeptics' board.

E-Sangha is not a free-speech community, but a community of spiritual fellowship. So just as it's not the mission of the magazine to give away free products until they run out of cash, it's also not the mission of E-Sangha to have debates about the merits of Buddhism with non-Buddhists who are openly hostile to their community.

 

[Piscivore]

I'm wondering if this is the source of most of Yrreggie's ideas about Buddhism.




Is it just me, or does Buddha look a little like Tim Currie?

 

[Ryokan]

And thanks to all who react to my thoughts and talks here, even though the Buddhists here or hitchhiking Buddhists here would like to see me thrown out here by my ears.

This is simply not true, Yrreg, and I'm sad that you believe so.

If you're ever banned for any other reason than breaking the rules of the forum, I will certainly be one of the people complaining. One of the best things about the JREF forums is that it is free speech, and anyone can come here and argue their cases.

Although I can't speak for the JREF, I would still say that you are most welcome here and nothing you have said so far makes me want you to leave.

And for those that don't know Yrreg well, here's an interesting thread: Yrreg argues that Christianity is the most intelligent religion.

It's a fun thread

 

[yrreg]

I will put him on my ignore list.

Originally Posted by yrreg
I just hope that the JREF Forum remain true to the ideal of free thought and free speech, and make sure that not even closet or meditation Buddhists get to be moderators and administrators here.​

. . .because there is no better way to celebrate free thought and speech than by banning a group of people from a job based on their religion.

This is quite possibly the most moronic statement I have ever heard.

And we have at least one open Buddhist on the admin/mod staff if I'm not mistaken.

Addressing the owner, James Randi, and the operators of this JREF Forum:

Please tell me who is this Buddhist in your admin/mod staff, and I will put him on my ignore list, because I wouldn't want to succumb to his obscurantism of being first a Buddhist and then everything else but not critical or 'disparaging' to Buddha and Buddhism and Buddhists.​

And if that is true, namely, this forum knowingly allowed a Buddhist to be an admin or mod here, then it is to their discredit, I am sorry to say that, but that is my personal sentiment, in this forum of free thought and free speech.

When there are so many people who cultivate and practice and advocate free thought and free speech, it is the most absurd thing to do in a forum given to free thought and free speech to allow a Buddhist to be among the admins and mods, when Buddhists have shown themselves time and again to put their Buddhism first and foremost before anything else -- they can't see that reason rules over everything in the world of human discourse; for them it's their Buddhism.

Sorry for this analogy, but it seems most appropriate for an illustration of an abstract thought which otherwise could not be appreciated by Buddhists:

Buddhists are like horses drawing the cart of Buddhism with their eyes covered by blinders.​

[This is a testing of the JREF Forum, to see whether they and how far they will allow members here to express freely their free thoughts. My suggestion to them, set up a new thread in the appropriate board on Complaints against Abuses of Web Forums and Their Operators against Free Thought and Free Speech.}

Smile here, everyone.


Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/ind...ost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.​

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[Piscivore]

Please tell me who is this Buddhist in your admin/mod staff, and I will put him on my ignore list, because I wouldn't want to succumb to his obscurantism of being first a Buddhist and then everything else but not critical or 'disparaging' to Buddha and Buddhism and Buddhists.​

Since you can't tell, doesn't that suggest that your bias against him is unfounded?

 

[yrreg]

Not bigotry but caution.

Originally Posted by yrreg
I just hope that the JREF Forum remain true to the ideal of free thought and free speech, and make sure that not even closet or meditation Buddhists get to be moderators and administrators here.​

Whoa, hoss. Just because you decided to disparage Buddhism on a Buddhist community board whose mission is different from ours and which doesn't allow anti-Buddhists to join, please don't generalize that experience to all Buddhists everywhere.

For JREF to bar Buddhists from becoming mods or admins would not be any sort of victory for free speech. It would be mere bigotry.

It would be mere bigotry. No, it would be caution, not bigotry, to prevent Buddhists from abusing their office of admin or mod to warn or delete posts or suspend or ban members who write in criticism of Buddha, Buddhism, and Buddhists, because being Buddhists and human they cannot otherwise psychologically act humanly in the interest of their Buddhism -- humanly, i.e., to cater to their human instinct of eliminating people who so much as annoy them by their criticism of Buddhism.

If you are endowing a think tank for absolutely free inquiry, I am 100% certain that you will not continue to finance such a think tank if the management there allow people inside who already maintain that their idol of an ordinary human like everyone else, is an enlightened being, e.g., Gautama.

Or if in your home you want your kids to be brought up to the ideals of free thought and free inquiry and free speeech, I am again 100% certain that you will not hire Buddhists to be their tutors or allow them in to be overnight guests.

But isn't that depriving Buddhists free thought and free speech in your home, my home? If you ask me... they can entertain their kind of free thought and free speech elsewhere among themselves, but not in my home where free thought and free speech means no one has already made up his mind that he is folloiwng an enlighented being like Gautama.


Smile here, everyone.


Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/ind...ost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.​

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[Piscivore]

...abusing their office of admin or mod to warn or delete posts or suspend or ban members who write in criticism of Buddha, Buddhism, and Buddhists

Has this happened to you? To anyone?

 

[Dancing David]

from here http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=7884&page=3

yrreg, you shall not be banned from here, but perhaps detaching from this obsession with proving something about buddhism is unhealthy for you.

The big deal in Buddhism is Nirvana; but the Nirvana that is post and beyond the grave is beyond science.

Luckily for amateur 'Buddhologists' like yours truly, there is the Nirvana that is claimed to be and to have been attained by Buddhists in one's lifetime.

Now that is one Nirvana that is perfectly accessible to science, like psychology in all its branches and neurology and neuro-chemistry.

I call Nirvana the big deal in Buddhism.* Is it the big deal in every faction of Buddhism? May I invite the Buddhists here to tell me so or not so.

Anyway for my purpose it is the big deal in Buddhism, and I would not touch any kind of Buddhism that does not go for Nirvana, specifically the one that is attainable and in fact for hardworking Buddhists to have been attained prior to the tomb but post the womb, of the Buddhists.

We can dispense with everything else in Buddhism, because everything else in Buddhism is not of any intrinsic controversial character except to people who want to go on and on and on, debating on matters which they can't ever convince each other to accept, unless and until some personal motivational angle steps in.

And then also everything else in Buddhism is of no genuine interest to governments or society except and until it becomes a peace and order situation or goes against public policies -- otherwise Buddhists can practice their religion freely in any democratic land subscribing to the principle of religious liberty.

Now, about the advantage of mixing with Buddhists in their centers, I still submit that in fact the advantages of non-mixing far outweigh the advantages of mixing; because aside from the savings in terms of time, labor, money, and trouble, in avoiding personal contacts with Buddhists one can preserve one's objectivity and scientific immunity by self-pasteurizing one's heart and mind from undetectable influences.

So, just keep to the web, no need to visit Buddhist centers and mingle with Buddhists.


Pachomius

*If we consider the Four Noble truths as the precis of Buddhism, then scholars who want to go to the jugular of Buddhism should head straight for the third truth, namely, that suffering can be abolished with Nirvana. You can skimp over the rest: the fact of suffering, the cause of suffering in desire and attachment, and the Eightfold Path.[ /b]

Hmmm, ignorance is bliss, and perhaps if all you do is spam the same stuff evrywhere you go and never read the responses, then you will be happy.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Addressing the owner, James Randi, and the operators of this JREF Forum:

Please tell me who is this Buddhist in your admin/mod staff, and I will put him on my ignore list, because I wouldn't want to succumb to his obscurantism of being first a Buddhist and then everything else but not critical or 'disparaging' to Buddha and Buddhism and Buddhists.​

And if that is true, namely, this forum knowingly allowed a Buddhist to be an admin or mod here, then it is to their discredit, I am sorry to say that, but that is my personal sentiment, in this forum of free thought and free speech.

... Wow. Well, I guess we better make sure the moderators and admins are all robots then, because they clearly should not be allowed personal opinions. But wait, can you even place one on ignore? I though that was not possible...

When there are so many people who cultivate and practice and advocate free thought and free speech, it is the most absurd thing to do in a forum given to free thought and free speech to allow a Buddhist to be among the admins and mods, when Buddhists have shown themselves time and again to put their Buddhism first and foremost before anything else -- they can't see that reason rules over everything in the world of human discourse; for them it's their Buddhism.

Sooo... These people are trampling your rights and you cannot even tell who they are? Wow. And again with the 'admins/mods cannot have personal opinions' argument ...

 

[Piggy]

Buddhists have shown themselves time and again to put their Buddhism first and foremost before anything else -- they can't see that reason rules over everything in the world of human discourse; for them it's their Buddhism.

You talking to me?

Sorry for this analogy, but it seems most appropriate for an illustration of an abstract thought which otherwise could not be appreciated by Buddhists:

Buddhists are like horses drawing the cart of Buddhism with their eyes covered by blinders.​

You talking to me?

[This is a testing of the JREF Forum, to see whether they and how far they will allow members here to express freely their free thoughts. My suggestion to them, set up a new thread in the appropriate board on Complaints against Abuses of Web Forums and Their Operators against Free Thought and Free Speech.}

There is already a mechanism for communicating with mods and admins. Please follow it if and when you feel the need to lodge a complaint.

 

[Piggy]

It would be mere bigotry. No, it would be caution, not bigotry, to prevent Buddhists from abusing their office of admin or mod to warn or delete posts or suspend or ban members who write in criticism of Buddha, Buddhism, and Buddhists, because being Buddhists and human they cannot otherwise psychologically act humanly in the interest of their Buddhism -- humanly, i.e., to cater to their human instinct of eliminating people who so much as annoy them by their criticism of Buddhism.

Then why hasn't this happened?

No one has deleted posts here on the basis of criticising Buddhism.

No one has been banned on the basis of criticising Buddhism.

Your claim that Buddhists will always try to "eliminate" anyone who criticises Buddhism just doesn't hold up. Buddhists are some of the most tolerant people around. They're not like Xian evangelicals, for instance, who believe everyone must convert to please God and save themselves from hell.

The things you're talking about have not happened. So why do you fear them?

Or if in your home you want your kids to be brought up to the ideals of free thought and free inquiry and free speeech, I am again 100% certain that you will not hire Buddhists to be their tutors or allow them in to be overnight guests.

Of course I will. I'd have no problem with my kids being tutored by teachers who are Buddhist.

And as for not allowing them to be "overnight guests", where in the world does that come from? Do you believe Buddhists have some contageous disease? Do you believe they become demons at night and infect the brains of small children?

If you ask me... they can entertain their kind of free thought and free speech elsewhere among themselves, but not in my home where free thought and free speech means no one has already made up his mind that he is folloiwng an enlighented being like Gautama.

What do you mean "already"?

What if they've already made up their minds that they're Xian? Or atheist?

What if they've already made up their minds that they're Republican or Democrat?

 

[andyandy]

It would be mere bigotry. No, it would be caution, not bigotry, to prevent Buddhists from abusing their office of admin or mod to warn or delete posts or suspend or ban members who write in criticism of Buddha, Buddhism, and Buddhists, because being Buddhists and human they cannot otherwise psychologically act humanly in the interest of their Buddhism -- humanly, i.e., to cater to their human instinct of eliminating people who so much as annoy them by their criticism of Buddhism.

what are you talking about?

when have any JREF mods banned/suspended a member simply because they criticised buddhism?

the fact that you're stil here would suggest that this is not the case......

 

[Mephisto]

(emphasis mine)

But isn't that depriving Buddhists free thought and free speech in your home, my home? If you ask me... they can entertain their kind of free thought and free speech elsewhere among themselves, but not in my home where free thought and free speech means no one has already made up his mind . . .

And here's a post from the Internet Infidels forum (by Pachomius 2000) that I'm assuming is Yrreg (speaking of already making up his mind);

"Why or how did Christianity turn out to be the most intelligent religion?

Because it believes in an intelligent first cause, or God."

Well, that answers just about everything I needed to know about WHY yyreg is so against Buddhism - he's about as open-minded as a X-tian!

All I can say to yyreg is; BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! BUDDHISTS WALK AMONG US! They're plotting to take over your church, teach your children mathematics, make you burn incense involuntarily, meditate on how to conquer the world and fight to have statues of the Buddha placed in all public buildings.

P.S. I would like to personally request that the James Randi Educational Foundation notify me which of their moderators are Republican, Southern-Baptists - you can't trust those bastards either!

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Here are some classic Zen stories, for your "enlightenment":

Thank you.

 

[nescafe]

It would be mere bigotry. No, it would be caution, not bigotry, to prevent Buddhists from abusing their office of admin or mod to warn or delete posts or suspend or ban members who write in criticism of Buddha, Buddhism, and Buddhists, because being Buddhists and human they cannot otherwise psychologically act humanly in the interest of their Buddhism -- humanly, i.e., to cater to their human instinct of eliminating people who so much as annoy them by their criticism of Buddhism.

Interesting. So the fine Buddhist folks over at the E-Sangha banned you for knowingly violating their TOS, therefore Buddhists at the JREF (with its entirely different TOS and mod team) are waiting for any excuse to ban you. Very straightforward and logical -- our Vast Conspiracy at work.

--
Global Buddhist Hegemony, Member # 5829163
As me about our world domination scheme!