A medical question about rape.

[The Atheist]

Oooh, I smell a large rat here.

You're a 57 year-old "professional". At least, if people are coming to you with this kind of stuff, I'd sincerely hope you are qualified to assist and at age 57, I'd expect you to have some fairly solid experience.

Sorry, but it doesn't gel at all for me that you'd bring that story to a sceptics' forum. Medical forum, yes. Legal forum, yes. Not here.

I'd also be extremely surprised that after being gang-raped by "6 or 7" gang members that she'd be physically able to walk home and pretend it didn't happen.

The Atheist says this is BS.

 

[Dancing David]

Strawman.

If I consult for a medical problem I don't expect to see my case exposed on a forum by the person I am consulting. Is that supporting a culture of shame and secrecy ?

nimzo

Assumption trhat Julliette is giving the actual details, and rather generic ones at that, suppose the woods were a pond, and that the age is incorrect.

What makes you think the young woman can be identified?


Why assume that Julliette has not changed the particulars and what identiofication is possible?

And why are you emphsizing the shame of the family, should they be ashamed?

(I am not arguing for the violation of confidentiality, I have discussed many former clients by changing the particulars and even generals in discussion, or even fabricating the details.)

 

[Dancing David]

Oooh, I smell a large rat here.

You're a 57 year-old "professional". At least, if people are coming to you with this kind of stuff, I'd sincerely hope you are qualified to assist and at age 57, I'd expect you to have some fairly solid experience.

Sorry, but it doesn't gel at all for me that you'd bring that story to a sceptics' forum. Medical forum, yes. Legal forum, yes. Not here.

I'd also be extremely surprised that after being gang-raped by "6 or 7" gang members that she'd be physically able to walk home and pretend it didn't happen.

The Atheist says this is BS.

That does bring in alot of issues of the credibility of the witness, but that was not what the questions concerned.

I am assuming the story is fabricated or generic. And there are cases of gang sex where no trauma is evidenced, especialy after a long time period.

The sad thing in a some of these cases is it turns out that they are traumatized by a family member and don't want to confont the perp and the family with it. Most sexual assault is perpetrated by family members, sad.

 

[Dave1001]

If I was the victim or someone close to the victim I would be offended to think that such a personnal tragedy is discussed in a public forum on the Internet.

nimzo

I agree. Thread should be deleted to minimize potential damage, including for Juliette's career.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Does having sex 'injure'?

Lots of bruises are totally gone in 6 weeks.

Not all women have a hymen to show virginity.

So lack of evidence is meaningless.

A 14 year old girl, walking home from church with a boy friend, past a secluded wood lot.... she's ashamed, makes up a story. An old story.

Then why make up the story? There is not evidence that she needs to explain to her parents. If she was pregnant and needed to explain that it would be one thing, but why inform them about sex if it was not rape?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Strawman.

If I consult for a medical problem I don't expect to see my case exposed on a forum by the person I am consulting. Is that supporting a culture of shame and secrecy ?

nimzo

Then you don't know much about the medical profeshionals. They talk about these things, they just leave out the details of exactly who you are.

There is nothing here that would be a real HIPPA concern.

 

[Araneus]

I wonder if the overreaction in this thread is based mainly on a dislike of the subject matter, rather than concern over (apparently non-existent) personal information.

 

[nimzov]

And why are you emphsizing the shame of the family, should they be ashamed?

Strawman again.

I have talked about privacy and confidentiality issues not about shame. Casebro has used this word but not me.

nimzo

 

[casebro]

Strawman again.

I have talked about privacy issues not about shame. Casebro has used this word but not me.

nimzo

And I didn't use it as if she were ashamed of being raped. In my context, she would be ashamed of having consensual sex. Likely, at 14.

 

[The Atheist]

I wonder if the overreaction in this thread is based mainly on a dislike of the subject matter, rather than concern over (apparently non-existent) personal information.

No, mate, that happened when iamme started a thread on incest a while back...

My problem with this thread is that the OP's bollocks.

 

[Hellbound]

Then you don't know much about the medical profeshionals. They talk about these things, they just leave out the details of exactly who you are.

There is nothing here that would be a real HIPPA concern.

Just thought I'd second this.

Part of my job is handling secure file transfers for a major insurance company. so HIPPA regulations and PHI are a part of my bread and butter.

It's a violation only if identiying information is included with the medical information.

 

[jmercer]

And I work for a company that provides medical services for the developmentally disabled and mentally ill. Part of my responsiblity is preventing HIPPA violations or reporting them when discovered.

Huntsman and Ponderingturtle are 100% correct.

 

[Yahzi]

Huntsman and Ponderingturtle are 100% correct.

Now that we've established the legal dimensions... the question still remains: why would someone ask this kind of question on this particular board?

Juliette: we can't help you. Yes, girls sometimes make up stories. Yes, they sometimes get raped. And sometimes, they do both: get raped and participate in the rape, at least in the initial stages, thus leaving them feeling guilty with something to hide even while they are not guilty of the real crime. How would her parents feel if they discovered she had agreed to perform oral sex on all the boys, but they had then raped her? Is this the kind of truth she can present to her community? If not, then why anyone would expect her to present it?

We do not have enough information to answer your question in any way. If you can't tell when she is telling the truth from a personal interview, we can't tell from a 3rd hand message board. Why you would even ask is just... bizarre. Why your doctor thought he could determine rape from 2 months ago is equally bizarre. The story is bizarre. But asking us to judge a 14 year old girl we don't know is the most bizarre of all.

 

[jmercer]

Damned fine points, Yahzi.

 

[blutoski]

Now that we've established the legal dimensions... the question still remains: why would someone ask this kind of question on this particular board?

I don't think it's bizzarre so much as a bad idea. It's a common strategy: go to a place on the internet with people who love to answer questions. The problem is that this is obviously a medical question, and just like when people ask about their personal medical conditions, you get what you pay for on an anonymous forum. Normally, I wouldn't have an opinion - caveat emptor - but this sounds important.

The concern for me is that some know-it-all on the forum will give an answer that (s)he made up on the spot, sitting in a basement in Detroit and that Juliette will act on that. That's the only reason I'm balking at the request.

I'm on a healthfraud mailing list, almost entirely composed of MDs, PhDs, nurses, and the like. Every now and then somebody trips over the list and thinks it's the perfect place to get medical advice, but it isn't: we always say "go to a doctor in your area." And of course, the poor list member gets 400 off-list replies from the altmed lurkers. "You need chelation therapy" &c. It's just not the right way to get *important* medical advice. This sounds more important than "what's a good nasal decongestant these days" type of questions.

 

[andyandy]

Oooh, I smell a large rat here.

You're a 57 year-old "professional". At least, if people are coming to you with this kind of stuff, I'd sincerely hope you are qualified to assist and at age 57, I'd expect you to have some fairly solid experience.

Sorry, but it doesn't gel at all for me that you'd bring that story to a sceptics' forum. Medical forum, yes. Legal forum, yes. Not here.

I'd also be extremely surprised that after being gang-raped by "6 or 7" gang members that she'd be physically able to walk home and pretend it didn't happen.

The Atheist says this is BS.

There are plenty of people who work in jobs where they come into contact with children in a professional capacity - family workers, social workers, health workers, counsellers to name a few. None of these would necessarily be sufficiently medically qualified to offer an opinion on the intricacies of rape injuries. I'd agree completely that this should be a matter for those with access to the actual details of the girls' medical records - and that as such this thread can only be relevant in broad and hypothetical terms - but that does not necessarily lead me to believe that the OP has no credibility.

Your last sentence i'm afraid leads me to doubt your own credibility on offering an opinion on rape. You'd be surprised that someone (especially a young child) would not tell anyone about being raped?

The percentage of those victims who report rapes to the police is only ~35%
according to these stats

and it is well recognised that "closing up" and pretending that everything is normal is a mechanism used for coping with severe trauma.....

Women will react differently after sexual assault or rape. It is important to trust and validate your feelings and do what you need to do in order to recover. This may entail telling a friend, going to a place where you feel safe or having a bath or shower or crying.

In order to cope with the trauma of the event many women will just try to carry on as normal and not tell anyone for a long time. However, often distress can surface a considerable time after the event. No matter how much later, a woman can always seek help from counsellors, GPs etc. Do not feel you have to cope on your own simply because you did not report the incident soon after it happened.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/counselling/advice/rape/whattodo.html

Please don't dismiss a rape claim by a child as BS on the grounds that they kept it secret at the time.

 

[jmercer]

I don't believe that's what's being done here, AndyAndy. I believe there's doubt about the original poster's veracity regarding the anecdote.

It seems to me that the logical place for an inquiry like this would be at a local emergency room, or a private physicians office in a consultation - especially since Julia (Juliette) claims that the child in question is a "client" in some way.

I have to agree with the Atheist and Yahzi; this is bizarre enough to raise doubts.

 

[andyandy]

I don't believe that's what's being done here, AndyAndy. I believe there's doubt about the original poster's veracity regarding the anecdote.

It seems to me that the logical place for an inquiry like this would be at a local emergency room, or a private physicians office in a consultation - especially since Julia (Juliette) claims that the child in question is a "client" in some way.

I have to agree with the Atheist and Yahzi; this is bizarre enough to raise doubts.

to have doubts over the OPer's veracity with regards to her professional role is one thing, but for TA to imply that a rape victim would report an assualt straight after the event - and that the failure to do this should cause someone to doubt that such an assualt occurred is quite another.

 

[jmercer]

True, and I agree. I misunderstood your point, sorry.

 

[ponderingturtle]

to have doubts over the OPer's veracity with regards to her professional role is one thing, but for TA to imply that a rape victim would report an assualt straight after the event - and that the failure to do this should cause someone to doubt that such an assualt occurred is quite another.

The problem is that we have no way of establishing anything about the credibility of the individual making the claim. I don't see either situation as all that implausable.

I can just as easily see a girl making it up as I can see it happening, and with no more than that, we have no way to lean on thinking what happened.