• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Sexual education

trvlr2 said:
Where was the freckle?? Was the technique effective??:)
Click to expand...

Well seeing that they were in sex therapy, I'd bet not terribly successful. The freckle was on the left lower labia, a bit of distance from the organ of interest.
 
Obsequious said:
Sex ed sure scared me celibate. I never understood how my peers didn't feel the same, subjected as they were to the same "have sex and you will get pregnant and infected with the following incurable diseases" curriculum that I was every year from 5th grade to 8th grade, and again during the mandatory "health" class in high school.
Click to expand...

This was basically my experience with sex education and then I ran into Linda Clark. She was one of a set of twins born to the small town doctor where I lived. I met her the first day of 8th grade and within a matter of weeks she taught me what sex was really all about. Although we never went "all the way" because even a country doctor at that time wouldn't put his 12 year old daughter on birth control pills and we couldn't buy condoms, we did everything else. This was when I learned that sex was not a sterile, embarassing activity shared by cardboard cutout people on a film screen, it was about warm, soft, sweet smelling girls.

Further education came at the hands and body of a 35-40 year old woman when I was 15. I had a job renting out televisions to people in the hospital. The company changed owners and paper work procedures so she came into town to train me on the proper way to complete the paper work. It was a hot summer day, I showed up in a pair of shorts with my work clothes in a backpack. She said it wasn't really a work day and I didn't need to change. She spent the next 2 hours explaining everything to me, all the while running her hands over my body. When she invited me back to her hotel room, I jumped at the chance. That was on a Friday, she stayed the rest of the weekend and I spent most of my time in her room. She came back the next weekend for a repeat performance. She was my first experience with a woman and she is still the standard I use today. I also encouraged my son to find himself such a woman.

14 was the age of consent back then. Besides, I was fully aware of what was happening and I did everything in my power to make it happen. Nobody was going to hear a complaint from me.

10 years ago I got a huge surprise. My brother is 6 years older than me. We were on a kayaking trip and we were talking about growing up. I asked him if our parents had ever had a sex talk with him. He said, "no, they didn't. I learned it from Carry Clark, Dr. Clark's daughter."

Carry was Linda's older sister who went to school with my brother. His first experience with her was in 8th grade science class when the lights went out for a movie. My first experience with Linda was in 8th grade science class when the lights went out for a movie. :busted
 
rjh01 said:
A word of caution. Learning about sex by watching others do it is a good idea in any other subject however whatever you do, do not get caught. You may get taught advanced techniques of another very painful subject. Unless Dogdoctor had permission to watch?
Click to expand...

We had a very bright flashlight and if they caught on to us we would shine it in their faces and run away. I was very young like 9 or 10 at the time and they would have likely injured me and my friend (the instigator) if they weren't blinded by the light. I was young and naive and I don't recommend this method of sex ed.
 
Having partaken of a conservative message board for educational purposes, I might clarify where opposition to sex ed seems to come from. As far as I can tell, it is not so much that they object to a class about the reproductive system. Instead, they are convinced that liberals are inserting more and more indoctrination into the curriculum promoting homosexuality, underage sex, and other immoral behavior.

It's not knowledge they mistrust, but the schools, unfortunately.
 
gnome said:
Having partaken of a conservative message board for educational purposes, I might clarify where opposition to sex ed seems to come from. As far as I can tell, it is not so much that they object to a class about the reproductive system. Instead, they are convinced that liberals are inserting more and more indoctrination into the curriculum promoting homosexuality, underage sex, and other immoral behavior.

It's not knowledge they mistrust, but the schools, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

So really, they are against education. If you are going to educate someone about something, you have to give them truthful information on all aspects of the subject. Sex education involves all aspects of sex, even the ones some people find offensive. It would even mean giving the student a list and description of sexual activities that are illegal such as, rape, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, etc.

The opposition to sex education by conservatives comes from their desire to control the information that everyone else is allowed to have. But then again, that's what conservatives do.
 
qayak said:
So really, they are against education. If you are going to educate someone about something, you have to give them truthful information on all aspects of the subject. Sex education involves all aspects of sex, even the ones some people find offensive. It would even mean giving the student a list and description of sexual activities that are illegal such as, rape, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, etc.
Click to expand...

Er, no.

And attitudes like that are part of what makes some people object to sex education, I suspect.

Nothing about any form of "education" involves giving people information on all aspects of the subject. Quite the opposite -- education mostly involves figuring out what aspects of the subject are the most important and presenting those. This is why students in second grade "science" are told about animals and plants, and no one sees fit to burden them with the idea that mushrooms, technically, are not plants. Students in high school physics are usually taught Newtonian laws of motion -- F=ma and all that -- without the relativistic corrections. And students in high school sex education should probably be taught about chromosomes and the difference between XX and XY, but things like Klinefelter's syndrome and Turner's syndrome can be left off the table.

But by the same token, things like rape, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, etc. can probably be left off the table, too.

The other issue, of course, is how such issues are presented. You might be able to persuade me, for example, that homosexuality is too important to leave out of the curriculum, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I will agree with how you want it to be taught.
 
It goes beyond all that anyway... they will also claim that they do not oppose informing on such topics, but that the content extends to actual promotion.

I think they're out to lunch, frankly, but it's an honest description of what they're afraid of.
 
drkitten said:
Nothing about any form of "education" involves giving people information on all aspects of the subject.
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite -- education mostly involves figuring out what aspects of the subject are the most important and presenting those.
Click to expand...

That is not education, that's curriculum development.

I will grant you that age appropriate information should be given out BUT by the END of the course (grade 12), ALL students should have a GOOD understanding of ALL aspects of the subject AND they should have information on how to further their studies. That's education.

The other issue, of course, is how such issues are presented. You might be able to persuade me, for example, that homosexuality is too important to leave out of the curriculum, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I will agree with how you want it to be taught.
Click to expand...

I should have qualified my first statement to not just read "education" but to read "Good education."

I don't believe that parents are the people best qualified to decide what is the best way to educate children in a public school system. Professional educators are the most qualified. If you need to have that much control over what your children learn, then homeschool them.

If professional educators disagree about how a subject is to be taught there is a simple system to decide, teach them both and see which one works.

Allowing parents and governments to decide what is best for education has proven to be an exercise in foolishness.
 
If I may play devil's advocate, some consider professional educators to be government agents, so how will that work?
 
gnome said:
If I may play devil's advocate, some consider professional educators to be government agents, so how will that work?
Click to expand...

It doesn't work. Government agents look out for the best interests of the government. Professional educators look out for the best interests of the students.

People believe that parents, elected school boards, and government ministries can run an effective education system. We just need to look at the evidence to know it isn't true.

50% of parents are below average intelligence. Of those 50% many recognize that they are below average but the ones that don't, get involved in their children's school where they try to tell others how things should be. Sit in on a P.A.C. meeting if you don't believe me. Has there been a single government that has restricted the powers of these groups? Not that I know of, most have had their powers hugely expanded in recent years.

Elected school officials must listen to people if they want to be re-elected. They listen to the people who scream the loudest. Remember the group of below average intelligent parents who got involved in their kids school? Well, they have loud voices. There is a science exhibit in Vancouver, BC right now, http://www.scienceworld.bc.ca/. Several school districts have bowed to pressure from parent groups to prevent students from attending the exhibit.

They didn't say, "Hey, we don't want our children to go" they said "We don't want any student to go." And the districts listened. All high schools had to cancel their field trips.

Governement education ministries don't give a **** about your child reaching their greatest potential. They recognize that society needs a huge number of workers to fill low paying jobs. They also know that, despite their efforts, some rich kids will rise to the top to fill the few important positions for their generation. They don't care about how students are doing unless it can get them re-elected. Student performance is not ever going to be an election issue. What is an election issue is that candidates look like they think education is important for the duration of the election.

Of course, that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
 
ponderingturtle said:
I am reminded of the parents trying to explain porn to their kids in the south park lord of the rings spoof.

"So where does the midget covered in mayonases come in?"
Click to expand...

I loved that episode...

Token's Mother: Token? Did the boys come over and.. show you a movie? [no answer]

Steve: Token? [no answer, long pause] Alright, Token. We know you must be very confused about what you saw. [no response, long pause]

Randy: [kneels next to Token] Yes, uh... you see, Token... that was called a pornographic film uh, ih it shows adult men and adult women having sexual intercourse. [no response, long pause] Well, ya, you see, when a, when a man and a woman fall in love, the the man puts his penis in the woman's vagina. It's called love-making, and it's part of being in love.

Token: [no response, long pause] ...And when the woman has four penises in her at the same time, then stands over the men and pees on them, is that part of being in love too? [no response] Five midgets, spanking a man... covered in Thousand Island dressing. Is that making love?

Steve: Jesus, what kind of porno is that??

Gerald: It was Back Door Sluts 9.

Steve: Oh, Jesus, not that one! [his wife gives him an angry look]

Episode 613 - The Return of the Fellowship of the Ring to the Two Towers
Click to expand...

Wu-u-wees hases our preciouseses! Preciouseses! Preciouseses!
 
I got most of my "sex ed" from my Catholic father:

"If I catch you having sex before you're married, I'll kill you!"

"If you get a girl pregnant, I'll kill you!"

"If ever come out of the closet, I'll kill you."

Of course my father assured me that after he killed me I would spend eternity in Hell for my alleged fornication and/or homosexuality.

I remember the time when I was 12 after discovering the joys of masturbation being caught red hand (pun intended) and being grounded thereafter. I remember my father screaming at me, "First I catch you jerking off, what's next? Are you going to rape 8-year-old girls?"


The scary things is that I eventually bought into my father's dogma (I think mainly as a means of getting on his good side) and started to spread the anti-sex gospel to everyone whether they wanted to or not. I remember calling a female classmate a "whore" in health class after she said that she saw nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. I was sent to the Principal's office for that remark, and I was the one who felt wronged by the "liberal" teachers who wanted teens for be fornicating and having abortions are part of their insidious agenda to spread communism.

Needless to say, I didn't date in high school largely because my parents wouldn't let me. (My looks didn't help either.) I didn't get "laid" until 23 and even that sex (if you want to call what me and my only girlfriend did together as "sex") was awkward and guarded.

Therefore, I not only endorse sexual education in school, I wholeheartedly endorse the promotion of sexual activity by teens. In order to foster a sex-positive society and nip this puritanical bull in the bud, we should be encouraging our young people to screw around as much as they want as long as they play safe and do not harm anyone else.

The way I see it, I'd rather have our kids f--king like crazed mink than end up like I did': a 32 year-old virgin.
 
Last edited:
Mark A. Siefert said:
I got most of my "sex ed" from my Catholic father:

"If I catch you having sex before you're married, I'll kill you!"

"If you get a girl pregnant, I'll kill you!"

"If ever come out of the closet, I'll kill you."

Of course my father assured me that after he killed me I would spend eternity in Hell for my alleged fornication and/or homosexuality.

I remember the time when I was 12 after discovering the joys of masturbation being caught red hand (pun intended) and being grounded thereafter. I remember my father screaming at me, "First I catch you jerking off, what's next? Are you going to rape 8-year-old girls?"


The scary things is that I eventually bought into my father's dogma (I think mainly as a means of getting on his good side) and started to spread the anti-sex gospel to everyone whether they wanted to or not. I remember calling a female classmate a "whore" in health class after she said that she saw nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. I was sent to the Principal's office for that remark, and I was the one who felt wronged by the "liberal" teachers who wanted teens for be fornicating and having abortions are part of their insidious agenda to spread communism.

Needless to say, I didn't date in high school largely because my parents wouldn't let me. (My looks didn't help either.) I didn't get "laid" until 23 and even that sex (if you want to call what me and my only girlfriend did together as "sex") was awkward and guarded.

Therefore, I not only endorse sexual education in school, I wholeheartedly endorse the promotion of sexual activity by teens. In order to foster a sex-positive society and nip this puritanical bull in the bud, we should be encouraging our young people to screw around as much as they want as long as they play safe and do not harm anyone else.

The way I see it, I'd rather have our kids f--king like crazed mink than end up like I did': a 32 year-old virgin.
Click to expand...

Good post Mark,

It sounds like you had one of the strictest most authoriatarian fathers of all time and he tried to manipulate you to his way of thinking and if he couldn't, things would get worse, so you maintained strong Catholic ultra-conservative ideals because he forced you into them. Than around mid 20's, you just said, "◊◊◊◊ it" and decided to do the things that you really wanted to do and believe the things that you really wanted to believe. You did the right thing by breaking away from his authority. People like that will never change.

I also agree that people should be allowed to have sex with whomever they choose, provided that they are responsible and understand the consequences of their actions.

Jeff
 
My parents rented some cartoon (which in retrospect is far more disturbing now than when I was a kid, I guess I was braver then) and just played it and quietly slipped out of sight (too embaressing I guess). These days I feel sorry for the narrator of that little "movie"... Anyway, it was "interesting" from a scientific perspective, and the cartoon was funny to kids, but I think I didn't respond like my parents expected. It was an "oh" thing for me.

Moving from there, as an adolescent I still didn't really care about it. I had other concerns and such things didn't interest me.
 
Just a short little story I heard today that happens to connect directly to this thread.

I have an acqaintance who happens to be a substitute teacher in a very conservative district. This is the kind of place where evolution does not get taught for fear of offending many of the parents. Rural, republican kind of place.

Anyway, the teacher said it would be all right if they listened to music while they studied as long as it was apropriate for school. Naturally, one of the students tried putting in some very explicit hip hop. Every other word was a profanity, bitches, hoes, lets take off our clothes, gonna get me some of that ass, that kind of thing.

When the teacher went to remove the CD, one of the students protested, "what's the big deal, we're all having sex anyway." Laughter and applause.

Yeah, I think the whole abstinance only thing is pretty absurd. Granted, this is just antecdotal evidence, but I think the students' attitudes are pretty typical.
 
Last edited:
We have already told our 7 yo about "where babies come from" - he calls it sexing (as in - "are you sexing?")and is dying to catch us out. He thinks it is the funniest thing he has ever heard. But I can guarantee you then when he gets a bit older he will know that if he must have sex (and you can never stop them) then you must use contraception - no excuses.
 
Even three-year-olds will ask, in all wide-eyed innocence, "But how DID the baby get in the mummy's tummy?" The answer better be a good one, because they won't be disabused of any lunatic notions derived from your amusing responses for some years after that! You don't have to be specific, just truthful.

As for teenagers, still truthful, but more specificity. You are not going to stop whatever they get up to, so forewarned is DEFINITELY fore-armed, in their case.
 
Zep said:
Even three-year-olds will ask, in all wide-eyed innocence, "But how DID the baby get in the mummy's tummy?" The answer better be a good one, because they won't be disabused of any lunatic notions derived from your amusing responses for some years after that! You don't have to be specific, just truthful.
Click to expand...

Well, Blue2 asked that question last year. I started with "Well, you know when daddy and mommy kiss?" She shrieked "YUCCCKKK" and ran out of the room.

Whew.

I've some very good books to review with her when she comes asking again. Educate, educate, educate. I don't want my daughter to go out into the world as a naive lamb.
 
Another South Park episode to demonstrate this issue is about the 'Proper Condom Use' where the girls and boys are separated to be taught sex ed, the girls are utterly freaked out by all the truly funky diseases and insist that the boys wear condoms before coming anywhere near them. Unfortunately, noone had mentioned that they had to have sex before catching said diseases. Focusing on scare tactics can get in the way of basic information.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom