Self-Actualization: A Tide Lifting All Boats

coberst said:
You are correct. We cannot reach what we do not strive for. Perhaps I might have said we cannot reach what we are not conscious of, can imagine, and desire.
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*Picks up coffee cup without apparent effort. Changes thread.*
 
Darat said:
I know he was considered a top-notch theoretical physicists and I know he was a great populariser of science but was he an expert on teaching and education?

That is not to say I disagree with his opinion but to bring him up in this context would appear to be a false appeal to authority?
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Given that Einstein made this assertion in 1950, I might even go so far as to call it false appeal to outdated authority.
 
coberst said:
I think we have placed scholarship on a too lofty pedestal and in doing so we have placed it beyond reach or consideration.
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Do you have any evidence for this claim? I consider community colleges, continuing adult-education classes, and a plethora of educational and semi-educational cable television channels to be ample evidence that scholarship is neither beyond reach nor consideration. I would also add the wide availbility of the internet and all its tools for research and inquiry has made scholarship available to virtually everyone. At the downtown branch of my local library I see homeless people using the internet.

Parents, students, corporations, and faculty recognize that the primary purpose of a education is to prepare the young person to fit neatly into the industrial machine without friction.
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Do you have any evidence for this assertion? If it were true, I suspect that high schools would spend less time teaching students geometry and more time teaching them how to make change (a skill sorely lacking in a measureable percentage of the American workforce).

The “development of general ability for independent thinking and judgment” must come after our school days are complete. If we do not begin this process of preparation for independent thinking quickly after schooling it is quite likely we will never acquire the judgment required of an independent critical thinker.
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"The development must come after our school days are complete"?! I find this claim to be the most outlandish one of all. Do tell, Coberst, why this development cannot take place during one's school days.
 
coberst said:
Parents, students, corporations, and faculty recognize that the primary purpose of a education is to prepare the young person to fit neatly into the industrial machine without friction.
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At what point in the self-actualisation process does one learn that repeating an assertion is the correct response to a counter-argument? I can't wait to get there myself.
 
Ladewig said:
Do you have any evidence for this claim? I consider community colleges, continuing adult-education classes, and a plethora of educational and semi-educational cable television channels to be ample evidence that scholarship is neither beyond reach nor consideration. I would also add the wide availbility of the internet and all its tools for research and inquiry has made scholarship available to virtually everyone. At the downtown branch of my local library I see homeless people using the internet.



Do you have any evidence for this assertion? If it were true, I suspect that high schools would spend less time teaching students geometry and more time teaching them how to make change (a skill sorely lacking in a measureable percentage of the American workforce).



"The development must come after our school days are complete"?! I find this claim to be the most outlandish one of all. Do tell, Coberst, why this development cannot take place during one's school days.
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School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
 
Darat said:
What is your evidence for this?
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Observation and judgment—these are the tools that one must rely on when schooling is over.

We must be prepared to make judgments about everything. Ultimately we cannot rely on authority for making our judgments. We must learn to observe and to make good judgments. That is the reason that learning CT is so important. This domain of knowledge will prepare the young person to constantly improve their ability to make judgments.
 
coberst said:
Observation and judgment—these are the tools that one must rely on when schooling is over.

We must be prepared to make judgments about everything. Ultimately we cannot rely on authority for making our judgments. We must learn to observe and to make good judgments. That is the reason that learning CT is so important. This domain of knowledge will prepare the young person to constantly improve their ability to make judgments.
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Uh huh. Would you like to try answering Darat's question?
 
coberst said:
School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
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Hi, coberst. For your next trick, can you demonstrate how your chosen method of becoming an independent thinker has enabled you to bolster your assertions with reasoned argument, supported by evidence?
 
coberst said:
Observation and judgment—these are the tools that one must rely on when schooling is over.

We must be prepared to make judgments about everything. Ultimately we cannot rely on authority for making our judgments. We must learn to observe and to make good judgments. That is the reason that learning CT is so important. This domain of knowledge will prepare the young person to constantly improve their ability to make judgments.
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That does not answer my question i.e.

What is your evidence for your claim that:

School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
 
coberst said:
School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
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This may have been the case when you were in school, but since, like, 1920, schools have been slowly changing focus. Many schools today teach critical thinking skills, research techniques, etc. Some junior high schools already teach the sort of thing you babble about here.

You're hopelessly out of touch, cob.
 
I think, sometimes, that coberst's posting duties are largely handled by bot, with a real person occasionally interjecting.

Just my opinion.
 
Darat said:
That does not answer my question i.e.

What is your evidence for your claim that:

School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
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As I said before you depend upon observation and judgment. The quality of your judgments will determine the quality of your life to a large extent.
 
coberst said:
As I said before you depend upon observation and judgment. The quality of your judgments will determine the quality of your life to a large extent.
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All this talk about understanding and, yet, you do not seem to understand this simple question.

What evidence do you have that shows schools only prepare students for the work place?

Or

What evidence do you have that shows schools do not prepare students to become independent thinkers?
 
coberst said:
As I said before you depend upon observation and judgment. The quality of your judgments will determine the quality of your life to a large extent.
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And what have you observed (and what have you judged) to lead you to believe that, ahem, "School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker."

Or that "Parents, students, corporations, and faculty recognize that the primary purpose of a education is to prepare the young person to fit neatly into the industrial machine without friction."

I assume, for instance, that if you're speaking of "corporations," you have some survey data or some statistics to back you up?

How many factulty members have told you that the primary purpose of an education is to prepare people for "the industrial machine"? When did they tell you this? Why should I consider your sample representative? (Especially since I suspect the same size to be zero.)

I strongly suggest you take your own advice -- observe and judge. Don't simply parrot platitudes devoid of evidence.

And particularly not platitudes that are outright incorrect.
 
coberst said:
School days are designed to prepare a student for the work place not to become an independent thinker.
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I have not learned to be an independent thinker. Will you please teach me? I will do anything you tell me to do.
 
I less than three logic said:
All this talk about understanding and, yet, you do not seem to understand this simple question.

What evidence do you have that shows schools only prepare students for the work place?
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I know this one!

Observation and judgement.

Or

What evidence do you have that shows schools do not prepare students to become independent thinkers?
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Oooo, this one, too!

Observation and judgement.
 
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