Merged Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[arthwollipot]

Ask an awkward (for some) question...viz: #6,602....cue the prevarication.

I responded to #6602. There are no automated porn vendors on any street corner near me.

 

[Joe Random]

I responded to #6602. There are no automated porn vendors on any street corner near me.

I could easily be wrong, but I don't believe he's referencing an actual thing. Rather, it's a cack-handed attempt at an analogy in his latest (futile) attempt to force others to admit he's somehow 'right' via some flaccid rhetorical trick.

And if I'm wrong about that and he is referencing something supposedly real then it's even worse for him. As everyone knows, the only thing ubiquitous on street corners are suicide booths, and the occasional bending units.

 

[Poem]

I could easily be wrong, but I don't believe he's referencing an actual thing. Rather, it's a cack-handed attempt at an analogy in his latest (futile) attempt to force others to admit he's somehow 'right' via some flaccid rhetorical trick.

...or you could have actually responded to the post...

 

[arthwollipot]

...or you could have actually responded to the post...

I actually responded to the post. Are you going to respond to my response?

 

[Poem]

I actually responded to the post. Are you going to respond to my response?

You don't appear to be aware of hypothetical analogies.

 

[Darat]

Would it be bad parenting to take a child into an adult sex shop?

 

[Poem]

A well known hypothetical analogy example: The trolley problem.

 

[Darat]

Would it be bad parenting to take a child into an adult sex shop?

 

[Poem]

I do. You don't.

Ok, go on.

 

[Darat]

Already explained it to you.

 

[Lithrael]

Should we shut it down - yea or nay?​

Why is this presented as a yes or no question? Surely altering the kiosk and/or addressing the reason the children want to go in there 'regularly' are also options.

Imagine the children are going in, ignoring the porn, and just taking advantage of a rare chance to spend some time alone and unobserved somewhere besides the actual toilet. They could be watching a show on their phone for all we know. We could cut down on porn kiosk use just by adding a privacy kiosk to the equation.

Or, if you want to be more realistic: I'm surprised children want to go in there on the regular, since the ones that haven't been recently used as a makeshift toilet are usually occupied by a junkie or a homeless person looking for a little privacy. I suspect the kiosks won't need any busybodies to shut them down, really; the financial loss of their upkeep will do that unless they're being run by some moneybags with weird ideas on how to do philanthropy.

 

[Joe Random]

...or you could have actually responded to the post...

Merged Post in thread 'Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?'

Saturday at 1:35 PM

<...> Your refusal to respond to what you have been asked is noted.

I'll admit to being inordinately amused at seeing you think you're in any position to compel anyone to engage with you in the specific way you futilely demand, and seeing you pretend that there are any consequences what so ever for their failure to do so.

• Joe Random

• 

 

[Dutchman]

Why is this presented as a yes or no question? Surely altering the kiosk and/or addressing the reason the children want to go in there 'regularly' are also options.

Imagine the children are going in, ignoring the porn, and just taking advantage of a rare chance to spend some time alone and unobserved somewhere besides the actual toilet. They could be watching a show on their phone for all we know. We could cut down on porn kiosk use just by adding a privacy kiosk to the equation.

Or, if you want to be more realistic: I'm surprised children want to go in there on the regular, since the ones that haven't been recently used as a makeshift toilet are usually occupied by a junkie or a homeless person looking for a little privacy. I suspect the kiosks won't need any busybodies to shut them down, really; the financial loss of their upkeep will do that unless they're being run by some moneybags with weird ideas on how to do philanthropy.

I've been wondering about the cost as well. Poem's hypothetical (which he did not actually introduce as a hypothetical, but so it goes) says every street corner. So a crossroads will have four of those automated porn vendors, whatever that might be. My small town would have several thousand of them. Many, many millions worldwide. Who pays for them? Who builds them? Will they be pink? So many questions.....

 

[theprestige]

You have also posted an analogy and I actually engaged with it. You never came back.

Yeah, analogies are beguiling, and it's a tough habit to break after a lifetime of reflexive analogizing. I'm sorry. If you link back to the analogy in question, I'll be happy to debunk it for you.

Nobody is forcing anything. Any responsible adult would shut down that vendor I described - sometimes stark analogies can frame an argument so succinctly that they cut to the core of the issue.

That's the excuse you make, for trying to force the issue instead of arguing your position forthrightly. Your argument is so strong you can't even make it in its own terms? Yeah, no. That's not going to fly with me.

Nothing you have said (which is still vague and rambling) remotely counters it.

I'm not going to counter an analogy. It has a begged question hidden in it. I could debate the validity of the begged question, but that would be a waste of time. Just make the argument in its own terms, instead of in terms of something else, and you avoid the whole problem.

---

1.	If A, then B	true statement we both agree on.
2.	A is properly analogous to X	begged question; usually this is a hidden step
3.	Therefore, if you agree that if A then B, you must by analogy agree that if X then Y.	Forced conclusion, without actually arguing that if X then Y is true.

I could ask you to waste a lot of time establishing a proper analogy between A and X, to my satisfaction, but why bother? The real claim you're trying to prove is "X therefore Y". So I'd rather dismiss the analogy, and just ask you to prove "X therefore Y" in its own terms.

Trying to prove "X therefore Y" is true, in terms of "A therefore B" is completely unnecessary. The only reason to do it is when you're not convincing anyone of X therefore Y, and so you want to force agreement via a begged question.

Nobody wants to play along with that, which is the main reason arguments by analogy always fail.

 

[Lithrael]

Any responsible adult would shut down that vendor I described -

Then how did it get liscened and built? It's hard enough to get a hot dog stand going. Clearly your analogous society is either pre-regulatory in general (in which case children genuinely have bigger problems) or is set in an alternate universe whose values need to be described before we can discuss things too deeply.

If they skipped permitting we should probably just get them removed on those grounds. Law & order and all.

 

[Poem]

Then how did it get liscened and built? It's hard enough to get a hot dog stand going. Clearly your analogous society is either pre-regulatory in general (in which case children genuinely have bigger problems) or is set in an alternate universe whose values need to be described before we can discuss things too deeply.

If they skipped permitting we should probably just get them removed on those grounds. Law & order and all.

We wouldn't allow it to be licensed and built in the first place - because we have values and regulations that guard against that kind of thing?

Effectively, 'yea' then? Close it down before it's built?

 

[theprestige]

Then how did it get liscened and built? It's hard enough to get a hot dog stand going. Clearly your analogous society is either pre-regulatory in general (in which case children genuinely have bigger problems) or is set in an alternate universe whose values need to be described before we can discuss things too deeply.

If they skipped permitting we should probably just get them removed on those grounds. Law & order and all.

We wouldn't allow it to be licensed and built in the first place - because we have values and regulations that guard against that kind of thing?

I think you've pretty much made Poem's point, Lithrael.

 

[Darat]

We wouldn't allow it to be licensed and built in the first place - because we have values and regulations that guard against that kind of thing?

Effectively, 'yea' then? Close it down before it's built?

Would it be bad parenting to take a child into a sex shop?

We have these so this isn't asking about a hypothetical. (You can Google something like "show me locations of sex shops" if you don't believe me.)

 

[Poem]

Would it be bad parenting to take a child into a sex shop?

We have these so this isn't asking about a hypothetical. (You can Google something like "show me locations of sex shops" if you don't believe me.)

Most juristinctions bar under 18s criiw.

 

[Darat]

Most juristinctions bar under 18s criiw.

Would it be bad parenting to take a child into a sex shop?