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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Poem said:
I pointed out that the Nature article wasn't even about porn - that even the mere suggestion and emphasising of sexuality as a spectrum has an influence on orientation (to a degree anyway). Of course, porn is a celebration of that same pov - so it obviously will and does have an influence.
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It might be obvious to you, but to me, it looks like a non sequitur.


Poem said:
I pointed out that the Nature article wasn't even about porn - that even the mere suggestion and emphasising of sexuality as a spectrum has an influence on orientation (to a degree anyway).
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I suspect it enables people who are unsure about their sexuality to feel comfortable enough to actually be more true to themselves


Poem said:
Of course, porn is a celebration of that same pov - so it obviously will and does have an influence.
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This parses in as far as it makes grammatical sense, but I really don't understand what you mean by "a celebration of that pov" nor do I recognise why it would have an influence.

You seem to be conflating several of your confused misunderstandings into an odd conclusion.
 
jimbob said:
It might be obvious to you, but to me, it looks like a non sequitur.

I suspect it enables people who are unsure about their sexuality to feel comfortable enough to actually be more true to themselves

This parses in as far as it makes grammatical sense, but I really don't understand what you mean by "a celebration of that pov" nor do I recognise why it would have an influence.

You seem to be conflating several of your confused misunderstandings into an odd conclusion.
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acbytesla said:
I would argue that watching porn has no relationship to being or not being a feminist. Women watch porn. It's not just men. There is lots of porn that specifically cater to women. Now individually, it might not do anything for you. But even that is a generalization. You may have not found the right pornography for you. People, not women, not men, like what they like. I think it's also important to understand that our tastes change. What did it for you before is boring today. And things you couldn't imagine being interested in when you're younger now are delicious.
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jimbob said:
It might be obvious to you, but to me, it looks like a non sequitur.
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You are going to have to work harder than that.
jimbob said:
I suspect it enables people who are unsure about their sexuality to feel comfortable enough to actually be more true to themselves
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As already stated, biology, for existential reasons, most definitely determines that heterosexual will be the norm. You are expressing a progressive ideology.
jimbob said:
This parses in as far as it makes grammatical sense, but I really don't understand what you mean by "a celebration of that pov" nor do I recognise why it would have an influence.
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Porn echoes that sexuality is a spectrum. Biology says nope.
Not have an influence? - so you don't think escalation is a thing? You don't think that the industry has a vested interest in widening your taste?
jimbob said:
You seem to be conflating several of your confused misunderstandings into an odd conclusion.
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I presented a peer-reviewed Nature article. You have presented a weak pov.
 
Poem

Post in thread 'Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?'

jimbob said:
It might be obvious to you, but to me, it looks like a non sequitur.

I suspect it enables people who are unsure about their sexuality to feel comfortable enough to actually be more true to themselves

This parses in as far as it makes grammatical sense, but I really don't understand what you mean by "a celebration of that pov" nor do I recognise why it would have an influence.

You seem to be conflating several of your confused misunderstandings into an odd conclusion.
Click to expand...
acbytesla said:
I would argue that watching porn has no relationship to being or not being a feminist. Women watch porn...
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You haven't presented your reasoning for connecting the two.
 
Poem said:
jimbob said:
It might be obvious to you, but to me, it looks like a non sequitur.
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You are going to have to work harder than that.
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You have explicitly accepted that it's about sexuality.

You have asserted that you see a connection to porn, which is nothing to do with the topic of rape culture. That is not demonstrating a link


Poem said:
jimbob said:
I suspect it enables people who are unsure about their sexuality to feel comfortable enough to actually be more true to themselves
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As already stated, biology, for existential reasons, most definitely determines that heterosexual will be the norm. You are expressing a progressive ideology.
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I refer you to what @Helen has said even multiple times since I joined this discussion.

She refers to bonobos. But they are not the only mammals to show homosexual behaviour in the wild. Heterosexual behaviour is indeed the most common but that doesn't mean that homosexual behaviour is abnormal. Which is what you seem to be implying.

Also, either of these positions is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, which is whether there are cultures that enable rape. They are even irrelevant to a discussion about porn. I guess that's an achievement of sorts.


Poem said:
jimbob said:
This parses in as far as it makes grammatical sense, but I really don't understand what you mean by "a celebration of that pov" nor do I recognise why it would have an influence.
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Porn echoes that sexuality is a spectrum. Biology says nope.
Not have an influence? - so you don't think escalation is a thing? You don't think that the industry has a vested interest in widening your taste?
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Biology doesn't say "nope". As @Helen has pointed out. I'm sure others had as well.

Also, I don't understand how a "widening of taste" would help the porn industry.

Poem said:
jimbob said:
You seem to be conflating several of your confused misunderstandings into an odd conclusion.
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I presented a peer-reviewed Nature article. You have presented a weak pov.
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I'm not disputing the results of the paper. I'm questioning what the relevance is to the discussion about rape culture. Something that you have not even tried to explain.
 
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arthwollipot said:
I would say that if you are homosexual and don't realise it yet, porn can awaken that. More likely, it might make you realise that you are bisexual.

It's a safer way of working that out than going out and banging some random dude or lady.
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Bisexuality is just a way to double you chances on having a date on̈ a Saturday night.
 
Poem said:
This is a claim - about which you have already said:
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Obviously you should feel obligated to address my claims.

What I keep telling you is that claims I make to you, as part of my debate with you, should not be used by you to debate other people here.

Don't use my claims as stand-ins for where your own claims should be.
 
theprestige said:
You missed my point, which is that personal value judgments can be influenced by prolonged exposure to specific value systems.
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No, I got your point. This is why people send their children to Church. To teach them they should obey an imaginary man or be burned for eternity. What is healthier? Scaring children or teaching them it's OK to be who they are?
 
And a rape culture.

Former priest who exploited spiritual authority to abuse victims convicted of further offences | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk www.cps.gov.uk

A former Church of England priest has been convicted of several sexual offences, including rape, following a successful retrial at Inner London Crown Court.

Chris Brain, 69, founded and led the infamous ‘Nine O’Clock Service’, an alternative religious movement based out of Sheffield in the 80s and 90s which combined rave culture with Christian worship.
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Poem said:
And now you have doubled down. Either explain that you misunderstood or withdraw your post.
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I didn't misunderstand and I'm not withdrawing my post. You said two things. One: that porn is being served up to children. It isn't. You steadfastly refuse to answer my question about when you last accidentally stumbled across porn on the internet, because I suspect you never have. Neither have I. Not since the intrusive popups of the early 00s. Neither do children. The porn is there if you go looking for it but you have to go looking for it.

Second, you said that the porn that is "served up" to children emphasises "otherness" and "latent possibilities". To you credit you refrained from using the word "deviant" but we all know that's what you're thinking, because in the past you have focused on choking and on CSAM. But this too is incorrect as the vast majority of porn is pretty vanilla heterosexual. Again, if you want kink you can find kink, but again you have to go looking for it.

Poem said:
Not interested. You have conflated porn with sex before I think.
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Porn is one aspect of human sexuality.

Poem said:
Always has been a demand for sex. Porn, as it is today, wasn't on offer.
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This too is incorrect. I've already brought up the example of Hokusai's Dream of the Fisherman's Wife (1814), and the murals of Pompeii, and the paleolithic Venus statuettes. In history, sex was seen as normal and natural, and nobody thought twice about depicting nudity or sex. Heck, the ancient Greeks had a god of erections - Priapus. What is new is suppression and repression of normal and natural sexual desires, which include visual stimulation.

Poem said:
The porn industry belongs to those who continue to propagate it. Period.
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Hollywood is mine! I own it now. Also the oil industry, because I continue to propagate that. YouTube belongs to me because I share videos on social media. This forum is mine. Can you think of anything else that you consume that is also mine because I also propagate it? Ooh, I know - agriculture.

This whole "the industry belongs to those who propagate it" is ridiculous. It's a dumb argument.
 
jimbob said:
Also, either of these positions is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, which is whether there are cultures that enable rape. They are even irrelevant to a discussion about porn. I guess that's an achievement of sorts.
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Furthermore, not only is homosexuality pretty common in the animal kingdom, so is rape. So, in fact, is homosexual rape (looking at you, ducks).
 
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