Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[arthwollipot]

The modern notion of sexuality as a spectrum emphasises fluidity (hello Alfred Kinsey). It is a turning away from any recognition of a rigid binary - an emphasis of otherness and latent possibilities. That falls perfectly within the pornosphere paradigm. If you want to explore 'otherness', then it is all there for you.

It's not a "turning away" from the rigid binary, it's a recognition that the rigid binary is not exclusive. There's more to sex than PiV penetration and male ejaculation for the purposes of reproduction.

And that is exactly what is being served up to our children.

And exactly what is the problem with that? The fact that it includes homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual expression?

That biology emphatically determines a high degree of heterosexuality (for existential reasons) - that fact seems to have been totally overlooked.

Not at all. A majority of porn, as you would not know because you are clearly ashamed of sexuality in general and have repressed that side of your personality, is heterosexual.

You watch porn and are propagating the industry. It is your industry.

Nope. I have nothing to do with that industry beyond being a consumer. By your argument the oil industry is also mine because I use products made from plastic and drive a car. The agricultural industry is my industry because I eat. Hollywood is mine now! Mwa-ha-ha!

 

[Joe Random]

So on reflection I think that "pr0n won't change your orientation" is the wrong tack. I still reject the notion that seeing images or videos can change a person's sexual orientation, but let's say that it can - so what?

Because of watching pr0n a few people changed/became non-hetereo. That's a problem, because ... why?

Like I said in an earlier reply, doing anything sexual with another man is more than a little gross to me. So I just don't try to bang other guys. What they do consensually with each other affects me how again?

 

[acbytesla]

So on reflection I think that "pr0n won't change your orientation" is the wrong tack. I still reject the notion that seeing images or videos can change a person's sexual orientation, but let's say that it can - so what?

Because of watching pr0n a few people changed/became non-hetereo. That's a problem, because ... why?

Like I said in an earlier reply, doing anything sexual with another man is more than a little gross to me. So I just don't try to bang other guys. What they do consensually with each other affects me how again?

Exactly. But who said they weren't homosexual before they saw the porn and didn't know it? I'm a believer that you can be straight and participate in homosexual activities and or gay and participate in heterosexual activities. Or not. You might prefer the opposite sex or the same sex. Or you might not want to do with the same or the opposite sex. This is about preference. What turns you on or doesn't. Or what turns you off.

Maybe seeing same sex porn turns you on or maybe it turns your stomach. Either way, you should be free to find out.

 

[arthwollipot]

I would say that if you are homosexual and don't realise it yet, porn can awaken that. More likely, it might make you realise that you are bisexual.

It's a safer way of working that out than going out and banging some random dude or lady.

 

[Poem]

Since you seem bent on kink shaming, I suggest that you actually learn something about human sexuality, outside of your own very narrow views. Perhaps you could begin by looking at our closest relatives, bonobos?

Primates and Bonobos have already come up. What are you suggesting?

And before you start with your usual nonsense; I won't discuss what anyone else has said earlier in the thread. I also won't answer any other questions, unless you make your own positions clear (no #). I've said this before, but it bears repeating; you are not Socrates, nor Plato, and your questions lead nowhere.

Looks like we are done then.

 

[Poem]

...Pornography is still free speech. Free speech is still extremely important to protect, even at some social cost. You'll have to bring solid receipts if you want to ban it. Not confusion and innuendo.

This is a claim - about which you have already said:

I withdraw the charge. Lithrael nor anyone else should feel obligated to address it, or any other claim I've made, in place of addressing your own claims and arguments.

 

[Poem]

Sexuality is irrelevant in the vast majority of sexual assault cases, except for the choice of victim.

Okay - but I don't know why you are making this point.

 

[Helen]

I am suggesting that you educate yourself. I am also suggesting that you consider debating in order to learn about the subject, and evolve in your understanding of it, and not just to allow yourself to think that you are scoring points.

 

[Poem]

And exactly what is the problem with that? The fact that it includes homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual expression?

I said children.

Not at all. A majority of porn, as you would not know because you are clearly ashamed of sexuality in general and have repressed that side of your personality, is heterosexual.

That a majority of porn is heterosexual would be obvious to anyone.
I am ashamed of sexuality? No.

Nope. I have nothing to do with that industry beyond being a consumer. By your argument the oil industry is also mine because I use products made from plastic and drive a car. The agricultural industry is my industry because I eat. Hollywood is mine now! Mwa-ha-ha!

The porn industry, or any industry for that matter, is built by demand. No demand. No industry.

 

[Poem]

I am suggesting that you educate yourself. I am also suggesting that you consider debating in order to learn about the subject, and evolve in your understanding of it, and not just to allow yourself to think that you are scoring points.

I know about bonobos. Now tell the thread the reason you drew a parallel with them in respect of human sexuality.

 

[Helen]

I know about bonobos. Now tell the thread the reason you drew a parallel with them in respect of human sexuality.

No. The thread knows, you don’t.

 

[Poem]

No. The thread knows, you don’t.

Either way, you won't explain yourself.

 

[jimbob]

Okay - but I don't know why you are making this point.

BECAUSE YOU POSTED A STUDY THAT WAS CONCERNED WITH SEXUALITY IN A THREAD ABOUT RAPE CULTURE.

PRESUMABLY YOU SAW THIS AS RELEVANT

Exposure to continuous or fluid theories of sexual orientation leads some heterosexuals to embrace less‑exclusive heterosexual orientations (from the peer-reviewed journal, Nature, 2021).

I asked why it was relevant,
and you went off on one about my posting and angry satirical take on a real story about rape culture and the obscenely low penalties for the perpetrators before you accepted that I had actually posted a link to the actual story.


As justification you then posted this which is again about sexuality, so presumably you again think that sexuality has something to do with rape culture.

The modern notion of sexuality as a spectrum emphasises fluidity (hello Alfred Kinsey). It is a turning away from any recognition of a rigid binary - an emphasis of otherness and latent possibilities. That falls perfectly within the pornosphere paradigm. If you want to explore 'otherness', then it is all there for you.

And that is exactly what is being served up to our children.

That biology emphatically determines a high degree of heterosexuality (for existential reasons) - that fact seems to have been totally overlooked.

So I replied that it doesn't

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hell. It's clear.

Sexuality is irrelevant in the vast majority of sexual assault cases, except for the choice of victim.

Whereupon you seem to agree and ask why I posted this.

Now maybe you meant to post in a different thread about sexuality, but I am not psychic, so I assume that you think you see a link between sexuality and rape.

 

[jimbob]

Either way, you won't explain yourself.

No.

You are being incredibly obtuse. See the whole conversation about sexuality that you seem to think is relevant except if people challenge the link.

 

[arthwollipot]

I said children.

Children have a right to know about sexuality as early as they are capable of understanding it, and that includes homosexuality.

That a majority of porn is heterosexual would be obvious to anyone.
I am ashamed of sexuality? No.

I disagree. I think you are ashamed of sexuality, particularly your own. We've been discussing this matter for over 300 pages now, and nothing you have said suggests to me that you embrace your own sexuality. I don't know anything about you or your personal life, but your words are not the words of an enlightened sex-positive person. They are the words of a repressed moralist.

The porn industry, or any industry for that matter, is built by demand. No demand. No industry.

There has never been a time in human history where there was no demand. Never will be.

 

[Poem]

BECAUSE YOU POSTED A STUDY THAT WAS CONCERNED WITH SEXUALITY IN A THREAD ABOUT RAPE CULTURE.

PRESUMABLY YOU SAW THIS AS RELEVANT

That the thread has drifted was clear from:

How is this relevant?

The thesis is that prolonged exposure to pornography tends to derange human sexuality.

I pointed out that the Nature article wasn't even about porn - that even the mere suggestion and emphasising of sexuality as a spectrum has an influence on orientation (to a degree anyway). Of course, porn is a celebration of that same pov - so it obviously will and does have an influence.

You haven't been following closely.

I asked why it was relevant,
and you went off on one about my posting and angry satirical take on a real story about rape culture and the obscenely low penalties for the perpetrators before you accepted that I had actually posted a link to the actual story.

I apologised for missing your context link and responded (ie it was a perfect storm).

As justification you then posted this which is again about sexuality, so presumably you again think that sexuality has something to do with rape culture.

As justification? It was a post in relation to the current subject matter which is not strictly the OP.

So I replied that it doesn't

Whereupon you seem to agree and ask why I posted this.

Now maybe you meant to post in a different thread about sexuality, but I am not psychic, so I assume that you think you see a link between sexuality and rape.

Take more time familiarising yourself with where a thread is at.

 

[Poem]

No.

Not 'no', but 'yes'. That poster won't explain themselves. And you probably can't explain it either.

 

[Helen]

No need for us to explain. Everyone, but you, understands, and you would not change your mind, even if you did.

And I suspect that you actually understand, but are pretending not to, in order to try to catch people in your gotcha traps, and to get to continue to use your interrogation "debate" techniques, so you can convince yourself that you are "scoring points". No real understanding of a very complex subject is to be had by such a discussion.

 

[Poem]

Children have a right to know about sexuality as early as they are capable of understanding it, and that includes homosexuality.

Let's just make sure of what is or is not being said here. I said:

The modern notion of sexuality as a spectrum emphasises fluidity (hello Alfred Kinsey). It is a turning away from any recognition of a rigid binary - an emphasis of otherness and latent possibilities. That falls perfectly within the pornosphere paradigm. If you want to explore 'otherness', then it is all there for you.

And that is exactly what is being served up to our children.

That means that what is being served up to children is internet porn with an emphasis on all possibilities (ie otherness). You responded:

And exactly what is the problem with that? The fact that it includes homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual expression?

And now you have doubled down. Either explain that you misunderstood or withdraw your post.

I disagree. I think you are ashamed of sexuality, particularly your own. We've been discussing this matter for over 300 pages now, and nothing you have said suggests to me that you embrace your own sexuality. I don't know anything about you or your personal life, but your words are not the words of an enlightened sex-positive person. They are the words of a repressed moralist.

Not interested. You have conflated porn with sex before I think.

There has never been a time in human history where there was no demand. Never will be.

Always has been a demand for sex. Porn, as it is today, wasn't on offer.
The porn industry belongs to those who continue to propagate it. Period.

 

[Poem]

No need for us to explain. Everyone, but you, understands, and you would not change your mind, even if you did.

And I suspect that you actually understand, but are pretending not to, in order to try to catch people in your gotcha traps, and to get to continue to use your interrogation "debate" techniques, so you can convince yourself that you are "scoring points". No real understanding of a very complex subject is to be had by such a discussion.

Let's stop posting to one another.