Global Geographic Literacy Survey

You wouldn't expect the average UK working Joe (that would be Jack) to be able to travel, either.
It's far more feasible for a Working Joe in the UK to holiday on the continent than it is for one in the US to travel to Europe or Asia.
I think a good way of comparing is the share of people who have passports. That's your "ticket" to travelling anyway.
Not really. Since the two most common destinations for vacationers outside the US are Canada and Mexico, and neither require a passport to travel to.
This goes against what drkitten argues: That things abroad isn't a big interest to Americans. It is also my experience, I'm afraid.
When you live in a country larger than Europe, with more geographical diversity, there really isn't much of an impetus to do so.
Certainly. But you don't get different cultures, different languages. It's like going to Disneyland, where you get all kinds of rides, but you basically stay in the same spot.
Wrong.

Different languages is a red herring, since no one aside from linguistics and literature students travel to another country primarily for the language.

As for different cultures, it's quite clear that you know far less about US culture than you try to claim. The US is one of the most culturally diverse nations in the world. The cultural difference between western Washington State and southern British Columbia just to the north in Canada is negligible when compared to the difference between western Washington and, say, southern Texas, or the Louisiana Bayou. Same thing with southern Texas or Arizona, and northern Mexico or Baha California; compared to, say, Northern California or Maine.

There is more cultural diversity between many regions of the US than there is between, say France and Belgium, Austria and Germany; or even Italy and Greece.
This is not enough in today's world. We can't tinker with things until they work, while not understanding what we are doing.
A lot of modern medicine, and other technology, says otherwise. Trial-and-error and serendipidy are still very popular.

Look at how science works: Science doesn't work with The Lone Scientist Working In Solitude. Science is very much a global communal endeavour.
We do have more vacation time than Americans, but we don't spend all of it travelling. We spend maybe a week or two vacationing, and then spend it at home with the family. I don't think it is a decisive factor.
Having more time to travel isn't a decisive factor? What colour is the sky on your planet? Is it blue like on Earth?

Time is probably the second most important factor, after expense.
Americans take time off, too. Especially on Fridays, after 1pm....
And while it's easy for Europeans to grab a train off to Deutschland for the weekend; it's not quite so simple to do that for Americans.

Heck, it is also pricey to visit France, but we still go.
Not as Pricey for Americans.

Here's a question for you. What is the primary impetus for recreational travel? It's to experience something different than you're used to. Different nature, different cultures, etc. When one can experience such a dramatic difference between regions in their own nation, why expend the considerable additional effort and expense to travel outside it? Particularly when you add in the fact that the impetus for travel is slightly different for Americans. Americans travel for natural diversity more often than cultural diversity; exactly the opposite of Europeans (but similar to the Japanese) IME. And there's far more of that in the US than in Europe.
 
Let's sum up:
Sentiments in Europe are focused on worries about Bush. Not America or Americans.
If my experiences travelling in the '80s still holds true, this is complete crap.

Back then, it was Reagan, and the sentiments were similar whenever I travelled outside the US. People would assume that I supported Reagan, and would frequently treat me (and other Americans) like ◊◊◊◊ accordingly. No matter how I tried to explain that I didn't vote for or support him, I was still tarred with the same brush more often than not. And there was not nearly the negative reaction to Reagan than there is to Bush. I hear a lot online from those outside the US who do treat all Americans as if they were Bush supporters.

Claus is arguing ad ignorantum. I had a similar discussion on a different forum regarding reaction to GLBT indivisuals. If you're not a member of the target group, you will rarely observe a reaction to nearly the degree that those in the target group experience it. Not being American, there is no reason why you would notice anti-American sentiment to nearly the degree that Americans directly experience it. And there is far too much of an impetus among the intellectually lazy to simply dismiss any incidents of prejudice that they do not personally observe.
 
Okay. In THEORY, we like everyone. My bad. ;)
My experiences in Canada are pretty similar, Americans are treated with tolerance at best; and in many cases outright hostility. And this is in the western provinces, not Quebec, where anti-American sentiment runs highest (to be fair, the Quebecois seem to hate everyone). I have certainly had my fair share of anti-American hostility in BC (though having relatives there may have skewed that a bit more toward the negative :D ). Fortunately, I tend to pick up accents and idiomatic language fairly quickly, and can pass for a Vancouverite with ease. :)
 
My experiences in Canada are pretty similar, Americans are treated with tolerance at best; and in many cases outright hostility. And this is in the western provinces, not Quebec, where anti-American sentiment runs highest (to be fair, the Quebecois seem to hate everyone).

Actually, up until recently, Quebec was the most pro-American of all provinces. But we just can't tolerate stupid 18-20 year old American tourists (and 18 y.o. Ontarians) who can't handle alcohol...
 
But we just can't tolerate stupid 18-20 year old American tourists (and 18 y.o. Ontarians) who can't handle alcohol...
You know it's helpful to identify an entire group of people based on the behavior of a sub group. I think there is a term for doing so but it escapes me at the moment.
 
And in both cases, due to tourism or business, use of English is growing rapidly. It's possible to get by in Mexico, and to a lesser extent Brazil, without knowing a word of Spanish or Portugese.

That sure depends on where you go. If you stay in the tourist traps, you may bank on the waiters to understand "Beer", but you try your luck with English in the slums of Mexico City or the favelas.

Due to decades of American domination of the technology and business worlds, there is far more impetus for others to learn English, than it is for Americans to learn other languages; which has contributed to a sort of national laziness in that respect. It's simply not necessary, so it isn't done. Unlike Europe, where it's vital to know at least two, usually three or four, languages on at least a functional (if not actually fluent) level.

No, it isn't vital to know usually three or four languages on at least a functional level. It helps, but it isn't vital.

It's far more feasible for a Working Joe in the UK to holiday on the continent than it is for one in the US to travel to Europe or Asia.

It is just as feasible for a UK Working Joe to holiday in the US as it is for a US Working Joe to holiday in the UK.

Not really. Since the two most common destinations for vacationers outside the US are Canada and Mexico, and neither require a passport to travel to.

How do you suggest we compare, then?

When you live in a country larger than Europe with more geographical diversity, there really isn't much of an impetus to do so.

Europe is larger than the US. My point about the necessity to be knowledgable about geography is once again validated.

Different languages is a red herring, since no one aside from linguistics and literature students travel to another country primarily for the language.

Strawman. Who said anything about travelling abroad primarily for the language?

As for different cultures, it's quite clear that you know far less about US culture than you try to claim. The US is one of the most culturally diverse nations in the world. The cultural difference between western Washington State and southern British Columbia just to the north in Canada is negligible when compared to the difference between western Washington and, say, southern Texas, or the Louisiana Bayou. Same thing with southern Texas or Arizona, and northern Mexico or Baha California; compared to, say, Northern California or Maine.

As for different cultures, it's quite clear that you know far less about European cultures than you try to claim. Europe is one of the most culturally diverse continents in the world.

What is so different between Southern Texas and Washington State?

There is more cultural diversity between many regions of the US than there is between, say France and Belgium, Austria and Germany; or even Italy and Greece.

I can't wait to hear the differences. If you can compare Washington State with Southern Texas, why not compare Iceland with Greece? List the differences between those, too.

A lot of modern medicine, and other technology, says otherwise. Trial-and-error and serendipidy are still very popular.

They may be popular but they aren't effective. Companies don't ship products that haven't been thoroughly tested. It is suicide to send a product on the market that is full of flaws.

Look at how science works: Science doesn't work with The Lone Scientist Working In Solitude. Science is very much a global communal endeavour.

Indeed.

Having more time to travel isn't a decisive factor? What colour is the sky on your planet? Is it blue like on Earth?

You are still thinking pre-commercial flight. In Denmark, it takes me about 6 hours to drive from Gedser (south) to Skagen (north). In that time, I can fly from Copenhagen to Madrid and back.

Time is probably the second most important factor, after expense.

Depends on your means of transportation. How far can you fly in the world the time it takes you to drive from Washington State to South Texas?

And while it's easy for Europeans to grab a train off to Deutschland for the weekend; it's not quite so simple to do that for Americans.

Again, it is just as easy for Americans to go from the US to Europe as it is for Europeans to go to the US.

Here's a question for you. What is the primary impetus for recreational travel? It's to experience something different than you're used to. Different nature, different cultures, etc.

There is a regular exodus from Northern Europe during winter to the South, because people want to get to the sun. Not different nature or different cultures - heck, in most of the most popular tourist destinations, there are even Danish bars and restaurants, run by Danes.

When one can experience such a dramatic difference between regions in their own nation, why expend the considerable additional effort and expense to travel outside it? Particularly when you add in the fact that the impetus for travel is slightly different for Americans. Americans travel for natural diversity more often than cultural diversity; exactly the opposite of Europeans (but similar to the Japanese) IME. And there's far more of that in the US than in Europe.

How do you determine which has the far most "natural diversity"?

If my experiences travelling in the '80s still holds true, this is complete crap.

It doesn't hold true. Not crap, then.

Back then, it was Reagan, and the sentiments were similar whenever I travelled outside the US. People would assume that I supported Reagan, and would frequently treat me (and other Americans) like ◊◊◊◊ accordingly. No matter how I tried to explain that I didn't vote for or support him, I was still tarred with the same brush more often than not. And there was not nearly the negative reaction to Reagan than there is to Bush. I hear a lot online from those outside the US who do treat all Americans as if they were Bush supporters.

And I hear a lot, both online and in real life, What is more, I can back my contention up with evidence. What do you have?

We are very aware in Europe that Americans aren't (necessarily) supportive of Bush. We protest against Bush.

Claus is arguing ad ignorantum.

So far, I have seen only false assumptions and reliance on unverifiable anecdotes from you.

I had a similar discussion on a different forum regarding reaction to GLBT indivisuals. If you're not a member of the target group, you will rarely observe a reaction to nearly the degree that those in the target group experience it. Not being American, there is no reason why you would notice anti-American sentiment to nearly the degree that Americans directly experience it. And there is far too much of an impetus among the intellectually lazy to simply dismiss any incidents of prejudice that they do not personally observe.

Whoa. Such haughty attitudes are fortunately rarely seen.
 
My experiences in Canada are pretty similar, Americans are treated with tolerance at best; and in many cases outright hostility. And this is in the western provinces, not Quebec, where anti-American sentiment runs highest (to be fair, the Quebecois seem to hate everyone).

There, there. People from Quebec only hate the OTHER Canadians, and only a certain proportion of them do.
 
20/20. When I was a kid, I had a puzzle with solid wooden pieces of all 50 U.S. states. I played with that damn puzzle so much I could put it together with my eyes closed (I know, I was a dork). Later, I learned the rest of countries of the world. However, I must say, they never impressed me as much as my 50-state puzzle. Not to mention how irritated I was about having to relearn Asia after the fall of the Soviet Union.

One anecdote to follow up on some of the posts above. I live in Japan now. At an international party a while back a very old and boring Japanese man thought it important to inform me as an American absolutely everything wrong with my country (at the time, I thought its biggest fault was not taking care of this guy when it had the chance) including how Americans are so insular. The irony was that the whole conversation took place in Japanese and of all the foreigners present, New Zealanders, Australians, Brits and scattered Europeans, I was the only American and also the only one with the ability to understand his feeble rantings -- and then, after the alchohol ran out, of course, tell him why I thought he was an idiot.
 
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20/20. When I was a kid, I had a puzzle with solid wooden pieces of all 50 U.S. states. I played with that damn puzzle so much I could put it together with my eyes closed (I know, I was a dork). Later, I learned the rest of countries of the world. However, I must say, they never impressed me as much as my 50-state puzzle. Not to mention how irritated I was about having to relearn Asia after the fall of the Soviet Union.

One anecdote to follow up on some of the posts above. I live in Japan now. At an international party a while back a very old and boring Japanese man thought it important to inform me as an American absolutely everything wrong with my country (at the time, I thought its biggest fault was not taking care of this guy when it had the chance) including how Americans are so insular. The irony was that the whole conversation took place in Japanese and of all the foreigners present, New Zealanders, Australians, Brits and scattered Europeans, I was the only American and also the only one with the ability to understand his feeble rantings -- and then, when the alchohol ran out, tell him why I thought he was an idiot.
Wait, a Japaneese guy accused people from another country of being insular? The mind boogles.
 
Wait, a Japaneese guy accused people from another country of being insular? The mind boogles.
Yes, that was one of several topics covered in my rebuttal. As was, "Go Fly Your Plane Into A Ship, Grandpa."
 
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I don't protest against Americans. I protest against Bush.

Perhaps so. However, that doesn't mean an American going over there won't be treated as if they were the most fervent of Bush supporters even if they would like nothing better than to strangle the S.O.B with their bare hands. From what I have seen seeing & hearing non-Americans talk about us, it tends to be assumed that we all absolutely LOOOOOOOOOVE George Bush, and that this shows that we all must be a bunch of religious fanatics and dumber than a box of rocks to boot. Even if one accepts the premise that anyone who voted for Bush must be a religious fanatic and dumber than a box of rocks (which I don't, but that is a subject for its own thread, I think) the little fact that he barely squeaked by in the elections and that a pretty sizable minority (48%) of us did NOT vote for him is downplayed or ignored completely. And given the way we are talked about, it strikes me as very likely that we will be treated exactly that way.
 
And, as I have told you, try visit us. You'll be surprised.

Heck, we even have McDonald's and CocaCola.... ;)
 
And, as I have told you, try visit us. You'll be surprised.

Heck, we even have McDonald's and CocaCola.... ;)

Why should I, or any American, presume that the way we are talked about is not indicative of the way we would be treated?
 

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