Global Geographic Literacy Survey

[Kerberos]

Unfortunately, geography broadly falls into that same category of useless knowledge. Aside from parading around the fact that you know it, finding Afghanistan on a map is about as useless as being able to decline agricola. For the people who actually need to know something about Afghanistan -- diplomats and navigators and such -- specialist training is available.

You're going to have significant problems understadning world events without at least a basic understanding of geography. I supose you could probably survive without understanding what goes on at CNN World news, but it's hardly useless show of knowledge.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yeah, don't it suck when people make ignorant xenophobic assumptions about other nationalities?

Ignorant? Am I fundamentally wrong?

Whether they have reason or not, or if it reflects the majority of the population, it's there. I have never seen anti-Canadian graffiti in a foreign country, and have never seen and 'anti' graffiti in my country, except for 'anti-US', or 'anti-Israel'.

Yeah, it's there, although not "everywhere", as the quote claims.

You see, there are some people in Denmark who thinks Bush is a disaster - and some express that.

What is interesting, though, is not what you choose to quote, but what you choose not to quote:

I witnessed the early stages of this sad transformation when I moved to Denmark to work at a multilateral organization for European security in February 2001, only days after Bush took office. From the start, professional internationalists voiced concerns about Bush’s unilateralism. So too did “average” Danes, whom I met in bars or at social events.

Once they learned I was an American, one of their first hesitant questions was, “So what do you think of your president?” Europeans already were apprehensive over what they saw as a potentially disastrous four years with the world’s most powerful nation headed by an arrogant “cowboy” from Texas.

These concerns deepened when Bush disengaged from the Middle East peace process and rebuffed plans for an international war-crimes court. Bush's withdrawal from the Kyoto protocol on global warming confirmed people's worst fears that Bush wouldn't work cooperatively to address the problems that much of the world saw as pressing threats. In summer 2001, the Bush administration walked out of the U.N.'s International Conference on Racism over disputes about Israel.

The new question I got from Europeans was tinged with outrage or fear: "What is Bush doing?"

So, there is concern about Bush - not Americans - and (I hope you agree with me) it is valid.

Proof that Danes don't hate Americans (which you left out):

But when the planes hit the Twin Towers and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, everything changed. There was an outpouring of sympathy and solidarity. At the U.S. Embassy in Copenhagen, thousands paid their respects, bringing flowers, candles, personal notes, and even a New York Yankees baseball cap. Similar scenes played out at U.S. embassies around the world. In Kenya, impoverished Africans brought cows to the embassy, to help America in its moment of crisis.

Living as a Dane in New York on 9-11, I got a lot of concerned feedback from Danes.

There also was surprisingly intensive coverage of the U.S. presidential campaign. Every night, the news included segments on U.S. political developments and about the presumptive Democratic nominee John Kerry. When I asked Danes if this level of attention was normal for the early stages of an American election, they said no, that the interest is far greater now than anything people can remember. Some said the U.S. primaries got more coverage than the Danish national elections.

Does this tell you something about how much we want to educate ourselves about US matters?

I remember the growing dismay at the realization the U.S. was growing more bellicose and unilateral, not less. Bush warned nations that "you are either with us, or you are with the terrorists." He also promulgated the Bush Doctrine of "preemptive war" that would be waged against countries that he deemed as representing a "gathering danger."

Perhaps I need remind you that Denmark is one of the relatively few countries that followed Bush into war?

Please show me where I said it was. I was simply pointing out that the of the two countries that border the US, only one does not have English as an official language.

If you travel by car, sure. But there are other means of travel. Flying comes to mind.

And it obviously takes a bit more effort for me to leave the country.

Not really. You have plenty of airports in the United States.

Funny, I was getting evidence while you posted this.

Funny, I just showed that your own evidence disproves your contention.

BTW, are you accusing me of lying?

Heavens, no. I asked for evidence. Why so defensive?

Oh, I almost forgot!

Note that it is a picture of Bush. It is not an American flag. We are very aware of the difference, you know.

Or maybe I misunderstand you: Do you think that Bush is synonymous with America?

Well, if you need a passport to travel more than 515 km from your birthplace, that makes a passport more useful than if you only need only to travel 3000km from your birthplace.

So you're saying that Danes have always been able to travel wherever they liked inside the 13 countries that now comprise the EU, without travel documents.

No, I am not. Educate yourself.

And the Schlengen Agreement changed nothing. You know, you should educate yourself a bit.

"Schengen".

I don't think it is a prejudice because I don't think my countrymen are any better. I doubt I would be all too keen on travelling to the US if I were Arab or French, for instance.

The French proportionally visit the US more than USAians visit France:

8% of the 24,452,000 USAians travelled to France. That's 1,956,160, out of a population of 295,734,134. That's 0.66%

688,887 French travelled to the US. Out of a population of 60,656,178, that's 1.14%

Additional source

Gee, ain't geographical knowledge grand?

It's not that I think Europeans are dirtbags, it's that I think PEOPLE are dirtbags and will gleefully sieze on any opportunity to do cruddy things to torment whatever group of people are in disfavor at the moment. I have no reason to suppose the Europeans are any better than the rest of humanity in that regard, and Americans are one of the groups of people in disfavor over there (and just about everywhere else) at the moment.

As for the rest, again I say that I can only go by what I see.

As you will notice, the protests have been against Bush. Not Americans.

Also since they had 5 options to pick from (on of which was "I don't know") they did only marginally better than average, and was in fact beaten by significant margins by every other country in the test. Also only 44% knew which organization endosed the EURO. It's not so much that they don't know, but honestly how hard is it to figure out that the EURO is probably endorse by the EUROpean Union, rather than say NATO, OPEC, WTO or perhaps NAFTA.

What was the first moniker the EURO had? The EU? I can't remember.

I don't think that it reflects at all on Americans - I hope I didn't come across as thinking that. I'm just saying that there are instances of anti-Americanism in Europe.

As there are instances of anti-Europeanism in the US. As exhibited in this very thread. And, of course, the Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast, a government sanctioned form of anti-Europeanism, to hit back at France.

Europe is slightly larger than the US, and has about as many countries in it as the US has states.

If the US were a continent, like Europe, I could claim to have visited 23 foreign countries in that continent. Wow, I am a travellin' dude!

Facts are nice. Geographical facts are very nice.

There are dozens, even hundreds of reasons why Americans don't visit Europe as often as Europeans visit America. My favorite explanation is that most of us have ancestors who left Europe because they were being taxed to death or hacked to death, and passed on their feelings about their European taxers and hackers to their children and grandchildren.

A bit....silly, isn't it?

That's why I don't go to Europe. Here in 'Murrica, cities make you clean up after your dog. In France, they invite the goddam curs right into the restaurants.

Please, let's not generalize about "Europe", hm? Cities in Denmark also make you clean up after your dog.

You're going to have significant problems understadning world events without at least a basic understanding of geography. I supose you could probably survive without understanding what goes on at CNN World news, but it's hardly useless show of knowledge.

Exactly. As has been demonstrated aptly in this thread.

 

[Kerberos]

What was the first moniker the EURO had? The EU? I can't remember.

Back when it was just an agreement about fixed exchange rates it was called the Ecu, though it was pronounced in french so the u is pronounced like a Danish Y. When it was decided to make an actual currency they changed it to Euro based on it sounding European and being pronouncable in all European languages.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yeah, that was it. "Ecu". Stupid name...

 

[CFLarsen]

Let's sum up:

Sentiments in Europe are focused on worries about Bush. Not America or Americans.

Sentiments in the US are focused on worries about European countries and Europe in general.

Americans are treated nice in Europe. Bush, on the other hand, is another matter...

People from other countries travel to the US far more than Americans travel to other countries.

People from other countries travel to other countries far more than Americans.

Europe is larger than the US, and has 49 independent states, one less than the US.

Geographical knowledge is very important if you want to understand the world around you.

 

[plindboe]

20/20, very easy test. Was surprised to see how few people got the questions correct, considering that I have always considered my geographic knowledge to be rather average.

 

[Euromutt]

Also since they had 5 options to pick from (on of which was "I don't know") they did only marginally better than average, and was in fact beaten by significant margins by every other country in the test. Also only 44% knew which organization endosed the EURO. It's not so much that they don't know, but honestly how hard is it to figure out that the EURO is probably endorse by the EUROpean Union, rather than say NATO, OPEC, WTO or perhaps NAFTA.

Note that 9% of both French and Italian respondents got that one wrong. Both countries are EU member states which use that currency. These kids receive their pocket money in euros, and one in eleven can't name the organization either. I think that indicates that either the question wasn't as obvious as all that, or that there's something very wrong with French and Italian kids.

Plus that doesn't even take into account the favorable exchange rate that the Euro enjoys when converted to dollars.

I'm surprised nobody's pointed out yet that Denmark hasn't signed on to the euro. You need to look up the exchange rate of USD to DKK.

Yes. Skagen - Gedser is 551 km. Do you think it might be a good idea for you to take a few geography classes?

I have to second drkitten's question about it possibly being an idea for you to take some reading comprehension classes, because there's no way you can drive from Skagen to Gedser in a straight line. The route to which you refer involves two major doglegs. The distance from Skagen to Gedser in a straight line is more in the order of 360km. And yes, I had to look that up, never having heard of either place before today. And I'm from the Netherlands. Though I've been living in Washington state for three years, which brings me to...

From Osnabrück to Paris is 684 km. That will take you less than 7 hours by car.

drkitten has addressed this point, but I'll ram it home. From where I live, seven hours by car gets me to Oregon, Idaho or British Columbia, all basically Anglophone areas.

Nope. We don't need a passport to travel to Norway or Sweden, two of our favorite places to go.

Not in the least place because Danish, Swedish and Bokmål are mutually intelligible, presumably. It might be noted that Americans do not require a passport to travel to Canada or Mexico. In other words, if you're a US citizen, you can travel across the entire North American continent without needing a passport. Think that might have something to do with why comparably few Americans have a passport?

I think the (rather predictable) American-bashing in this thread obscures a number of interesting points. I think we can take it as axiomatic that the larger and more populous the country, the less informed the inhabitants will be about other countries, and the less likely to speak foreign languages. You're much more likely to find a Frenchman or a German who doesn't speak a foreign language than a Dutchman or a Dane, even adjusting for population sizes. The main French evening news spends only a few minutes on news from abroad. Comparing the US to European countries in this respect is apples and oranges. Now, if you were to compare a sample of Americans to, say, Russians, I think the results would be interesting.

And of course people are going to be more likely to know stuff which affects them over a longer period of time. Did anyone notice the responses on the question about El Niño? Anyone notice that not one European country scored above 33% correct on that one? As the survey says:

Respondents in countries bordering the Pacific Oceanwhere El Niño originateswere more likely than their European counterparts to name El Niño as the phenomenon of drastic ocean temperature changes that causes weather changes around the world.

I bet if you checked only Canadian and US west coast residents (BC, WS, OR & CA), the percentage of correct answers would be even higher. Similarly, I have fellow students who have forgotten more about Central American geography that I will ever know, and I consider myself reasonably well informed. Of course, this survey didn't look at the western hemisphere much, did it?

 

[BPSCG]

Please, let's not generalize about "Europe", hm? Cities in Denmark also make you clean up after your dog.

It was a joke. Lighten up, Claus.

 

[BPSCG]

Was that a pun I didn't get, or did I say something different from what I think I said?

Unless my translation was faulty, you said, "I believe I will vomit on that leper." Or "lemur." Not sure which.

 

[CFLarsen]

Note that 9% of both French and Italian respondents got that one wrong. Both countries are EU member states which use that currency. These kids receive their pocket money in euros, and one in eleven can't name the organization either. I think that indicates that either the question wasn't as obvious as all that, or that there's something very wrong with French and Italian kids.

Note that these "kids" don't receive "pocket money". The youngest group was 18-24 year olds.

Go check the study.

I'm surprised nobody's pointed out yet that Denmark hasn't signed on to the euro. You need to look up the exchange rate of USD to DKK.

I'm surprised nobody's pointed out yet that the Danish KR follows the Euro.

I have to second drkitten's question about it possibly being an idea for you to take some reading comprehension classes, because there's no way you can drive from Skagen to Gedser in a straight line. The route to which you refer involves two major doglegs. The distance from Skagen to Gedser in a straight line is more in the order of 360km. And yes, I had to look that up, never having heard of either place before today. And I'm from the Netherlands. Though I've been living in Washington state for three years, which brings me to...

There are not that many places you can to to in a straight line. Somewhere along the way, the road curves.

drkitten has addressed this point, but I'll ram it home. From where I live, seven hours by car gets me to Oregon, Idaho or British Columbia, all basically Anglophone areas.

So? People understand English basically well from Osnabrück to Paris. Do you need people to speak English in the areas you drive through, before you are willing to drive through?

Not in the least place because Danish, Swedish and Bokmål are mutually intelligible, presumably.

The three Scandinavian countries share relatively similar languages, due to their history. But Denmark was the first to join the EU (not a "union" then), in 1972. Norway is still not a member, while Sweden joined in 1995.

It might be noted that Americans do not require a passport to travel to Canada or Mexico. In other words, if you're a US citizen, you can travel across the entire North American continent without needing a passport. Think that might have something to do with why comparably few Americans have a passport?

Probably. It does show that Americans are not particularly interested in going too far away.

I think the (rather predictable) American-bashing in this thread

Bashing? Who has bashed America in this thread? Where has this happened?

obscures a number of interesting points. I think we can take it as axiomatic that the larger and more populous the country, the less informed the inhabitants will be about other countries, and the less likely to speak foreign languages. You're much more likely to find a Frenchman or a German who doesn't speak a foreign language than a Dutchman or a Dane, even adjusting for population sizes.

Evidence?

The main French evening news spends only a few minutes on news from abroad.

Evidence?

Comparing the US to European countries in this respect is apples and oranges. Now, if you were to compare a sample of Americans to, say, Russians, I think the results would be interesting.

Let's see it, then.

And of course people are going to be more likely to know stuff which affects them over a longer period of time. Did anyone notice the responses on the question about El Niño? Anyone notice that not one European country scored above 33% correct on that one? As the survey says:I bet if you checked only Canadian and US west coast residents (BC, WS, OR & CA), the percentage of correct answers would be even higher.

Did anyone notice the responses on the question about what the Western Hemisphere's only communist country was? You would think that the US scored pretty high there, wouldn't you?

Well, no:

Italy: 91%
Germany: 80%
Mexico: 80%
Sweden: 80%
Canada: 73%
France: 72%
U.S.: 62%
Japan: 58%
Great Britain: 53%

If Cuba isn't something that affects the US over a longer period of time, I don't know what does.

Similarly, I have fellow students who have forgotten more about Central American geography that I will ever know, and I consider myself reasonably well informed. Of course, this survey didn't look at the western hemisphere much, did it?

Why should a geography test look at the Western hemisphere much? Geography is about knowing about the whole planet.

 

[Kerberos]

Unless my translation was faulty, you said, "I believe I will vomit on that leper." Or "lemur." Not sure which.

You're joking right? I'm pretty sure I said no such thing.

 

[Kerberos]

Note that 9% of both French and Italian respondents got that one wrong. Both countries are EU member states which use that currency. These kids receive their pocket money in euros, and one in eleven can't name the organization either. I think that indicates that either the question wasn't as obvious as all that, or that there's something very wrong with French and Italian kids.

I honestly have no trouble believing that 9% of young Frenchmen and Italians wouldn't know that, people really are remarkably ignorant.

I'm surprised nobody's pointed out yet that Denmark hasn't signed on to the euro. You need to look up the exchange rate of USD to DKK.

No you don't, while Denmark doesn't have the Euro we have a fixed exchange rate.

 

[Vorticity]

Unless my translation was faulty, you said, "I believe I will vomit on that leper." Or "lemur." Not sure which.

Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist von den Aalen voll.


And on a note tangentially related to the current debate, a story:

Once on a skiing trip, I played a game of Trivial Pursuit* with two Russians, one German, and an Italian. (I'm an American.) We played for a very long time, until I finally won by correctly answering a string of geography questions. The Europeans were stunned. One of them said, "I never met an American who knew geography before!" I could tell by the shell-shocked looks on their faces that they only let me play the game with them because they expected to have a good laugh at my ignorance, and that it had never occured to them that there could exist actual Americans who knew things.

They treated me like some kind of anomalous freak for the rest of the trip, and kept asking me questions like, "Were you really born in Los Angeles?" and "But at least one of your parents, she must have come from Europe, no?"


By the way, 20/20 on that quiz.

*For non-Americans: Trivial Pursuit is a board game played by answering general knowledge questions.

 

[CFLarsen]

And on a note tangentially related to the current debate, a story:

Once on a skiing trip, I played a game of Trivial Pursuit* with two Russians, one German, and an Italian. (I'm an American.) We played for a very long time, until I finally won by correctly answering a string of geography questions. The Europeans were stunned. One of them said, "I never met an American who knew geography before!" I could tell by the shell-shocked looks on their faces that they only let me play the game with them because they expected to have a good laugh at my ignorance, and that it had never occured to them that there could exist actual Americans who knew things.

Unverifiable anecdote!

They treated me like some kind of anomalous freak for the rest of the trip, and kept asking me questions like, "Were you really born in Los Angeles?" and "But at least one of your parents, she must have come from Europe, no?"

.......why would they think both your parents were female?

 

[Vorticity]

Unverifiable anecdote!

True enough.

.......why would they think both your parents were female?

That's actually my way of transcribing (from memory) the Italian guy's occasional stumbling over gendered articles (Italian) vs. non-gendered articles (English). Maybe he didn't say it exactly like that, but adding a touch of obscure verisimilitude to a tale is always advisable...

 

[Manny]

Notice that I've stopped smiling, because this is not funny anymore.

Having followed this thread, I want to go on record as thinking it's a scream!

 

[BPSCG]

You're joking right? I'm pretty sure I said no such thing.

Well, my German isn't exactly Goethe, but why don't you run it by some of the German speakers here and see how close I came?

 

[CFLarsen]

Having followed this thread, I want to go on record as thinking it's a scream!

Do you want to go on record about the subject of the thread?

 

[BPSCG]

Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist von den Aalen voll.

That's not funny, that's sick.

Once on a skiing trip, I played a game of Trivial Pursuit* with two Russians, one German, and an Italian. (I'm an American.) We played for a very long time, until I finally won by correctly answering a string of geography questions. The Europeans were stunned.

Had a similar experience with Mrs. BPSCG v. 1.0 and some of her friends. I'd gotten to the last pie, and Mrs. BPSCG 1.0 told everyone to ask me a question relating to pop music. See my avatar and understand why. The question was something along the lines of, "What 1970's British album was especially noteworthy for its audiophile qualities?"

Everyone was stunned when I answered, "Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon." How could I have known that, they wondered. Well, just because I don't particularly care for a certain genre of music doesn't mean I'm completely ignorant of it. Cultural literacy and all that.

 

[Manny]

Do you want to go on record about the subject of the thread?

Not really -- I grew up in a family of diplomats and in an area where a larger-than-usual number of students grew up similarly. So I'm something of a geography outlier for the US and don't really have much to add to the country-wide state of knowledge.

OK, I will go on record on one thing. The US, I believe without direct evidence, has a larger number of smartasses per capita than anyplace else in the world. So it's entirely possible that at least some US respondants knew some of the answers (i.e., spot the US on a map of the world) but gave an incorrect response nonetheless. That might account for a couple of points of the apparent knowledge deficit (but, to be clear, by no means all or even a majority of it).

OK, one more thing. An apocryphal story which nonetheless has made big inroads on the public speaking circuit. "A recent poll established that only 17 percent of the American people knew where Afghanistan was. Unfortunately for the taliban, they were all in the Marines."