Understanding the Liberal Mindset

[The Great Zaganza]

Republicans claim that the government should be run more like a business - except when it comes to the fundamentals like making it easy for the customers to give you their money.

 

[steenkh]

Republicans claim that the government should be run more like a business - except when it comes to the fundamentals like making it easy for the customers to give you their money.

This is not a criticism of your post, but isn't it interesting how a discussion of how to understand the liberal mindset always ends up discussing the right-wing mindset? I think that there is no left-wing mindset (except possibly for the extremists, of which we have no proponents here), but there is a right-wing mindset, and the left-wing mindset seems to be defined as the negative (in some degree) of the right-wing mindset.

 

[arthwollipot]

This is not a criticism of your post, but isn't it interesting how a discussion of how to understand the liberal mindset always ends up discussing the right-wing mindset? I think that there is no left-wing mindset (except possibly for the extremists, of which we have no proponents here), but there is a right-wing mindset, and the left-wing mindset seems to be defined as the negative (in some degree) of the right-wing mindset.

There's a whole neglected thread for discussing the conservative mindset if you'd like to breathe some life into it.

Bashing the libs is far more popular.

 

[dirtywick]

This is not a criticism of your post, but isn't it interesting how a discussion of how to understand the liberal mindset always ends up discussing the right-wing mindset? I think that there is no left-wing mindset (except possibly for the extremists, of which we have no proponents here), but there is a right-wing mindset, and the left-wing mindset seems to be defined as the negative (in some degree) of the right-wing mindset.

hearing someone’s criticism of left wing ideology as privatization of public services combined with minimal government regulation and oversight leading to fraud and abuse is a little hard to make sense of. like i agree it’s a likely outcome of that arrangement and that’s bad, but private market solutions and small government are pretty core beliefs of the right.

so it’s like yeah that’s bad and i’d be mad too, but why are you blaming the left? there’s probably a name for that fallacy, idk what it is i never really bothered to learn them

 

[theprestige]

i don't really feel like that's what i was doing but i could see how you could get that impression and i understand where you're coming from. that said, my opinion is you're making the choice of being as big of an ass as possible about it,

When in Rome.

which could come as no surprise is a bit annoying to me.

Imagine my annoyance, at your shenanigans.

so i guess that explains that situation from my point, and i think i'll take you up on not giving a ◊◊◊◊ what your thoughts about it are anymore, as suggested. i won't worry about it.

That's settled, then.

third party or the other leftist, i suppose. where i live right wingers run unopposed, i would assume that's the case but in reverse in portland. obviously voting for conservatives would be a dire mistake that would only make that situation worse. the left in portland is making a bunch of right wing decisions in privatizing anyway, certainly will get more of that voting for people expressedly committed to doing that. it's like the john fetterman thing, yeah he ran as a progressive and a dem but man, not really in practice.

i mean, they'd have to go, i would be pissed at them too.

i agree, it's a bit of a conundrum.

I think my local leftists don't think it's right-wing when the money is going to non-profits.

 

[catsmate]

If you belive that everyone should be treated equally regardless of their race or sex and that a person cannot change their sex, you're "far-right." Okay.

How surprising, another strawman.

 

[theprestige]

hearing someone’s criticism of left wing ideology as privatization of public services combined with minimal government regulation and oversight leading to fraud and abuse is a little hard to make sense of. like i agree it’s a likely outcome of that arrangement and that’s bad, but private market solutions and small government are pretty core beliefs of the right.

so it’s like yeah that’s bad and i’d be mad too, but why are you blaming the left? there’s probably a name for that fallacy, idk what it is i never really bothered to learn them

Who else am I supposed to blame for poor governance here? There's no right wing faction to speak of. No conservative politicians on the city council to scapegoat.

 

[catsmate]

Exactly. Thank you for providing the example of what we're not talking about.

But if you can't make a valid argument inane rants are what's left.

 

[catsmate]

Of course you aren't. It's always a case of "those people over there should have all of their stuff taken away for the good of the poor... but not me, I should get to keep mine".

Strawman.

 

[dirtywick]

Who else am I supposed to blame for poor governance here? There's no right wing faction to speak of. No conservative politicians on the city council to scapegoat.

i’m not suggesting you don’t blame them as individuals or an organization. but obviously it’s confusing to hear you call it the left and then describe right wing ideology.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

other countries have a higher level of democracy and lower levels of wealth inequality - as well better social security and universal healthcare.

It's not like this is not possible without ritually killing billionaires.

 

[theprestige]

i’m not suggesting you don’t blame them as individuals or an organization. but obviously it’s confusing to hear you call it the left and then describe right wing ideology.

It's not my fault this left-wing city council likes to funnel tax revenue into the pockets of friendly non-profit directors. You get confused because you still can't comprehend the idea of left-wing politicians being incompetent and corrupt.

 

[dirtywick]

It's not my fault this left-wing city council likes to funnel tax revenue into the pockets of friendly non-profit directors. You get confused because you still can't comprehend the idea of left-wing politicians being incompetent and corrupt.

i didn't say it was your fault, i'm taking issue with your framing of it. from your explanation it appears that privatized public services coupled with a lack of government regulation and oversight, which is distinctly right wing ideology in the form of privatizing public service and minimal oversight, lead to a bunch of corruption. unsurprising, and a common criticism of right wing ideology. your city council and so forth certainly sounds corrupt, but you calling it left wing doesn't make is so considering it's not a left wing philosophy of governance.

but i'm just repeating myself here, and i think we've now both gotten what we needed out of this.

 

[theprestige]

i didn't say it was your fault, i'm taking issue with your framing of it. from your explanation it appears that privatized public services coupled with a lack of government regulation and oversight, which is distinctly right wing ideology in the form of privatizing public service and minimal oversight, lead to a bunch of corruption.

If it's distinctly right wing ideology, why have these left wing ideologues embraced it so thoroughly?

 

[johnny karate]

If it's distinctly right wing ideology, why have these left wing ideologues embraced it so thoroughly?

"Left wing ideologues" is a weird way to describe people who have apparently rejected left wing ideology.

But I don't blame you for being upset. If a bunch of Republicans lied and said they were Democrats to get elected and then did a bunch of Republican ◊◊◊◊ that ruined everything, I'd be upset too.

 

[theprestige]

Apparently the Portland chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America is run by crypto-fascists, and nobody noticed.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Apparently the Portland chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America is run by crypto-fascists, and nobody noticed.

just like most Libertarians ..

 

[dirtywick]

If it's distinctly right wing ideology, why have these left wing ideologues embraced it so thoroughly?

like i said earlier, i'm not in tune with local portland politics. my best guess is they aren't the left wing ideologues you thought they were

 

[johnny karate]

Apparently the Portland chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America is run by crypto-fascists, and nobody noticed.

Seems like you did considering that you're here complaining about their right wing policies. You even acknowledged this earlier in the thread:

Honestly I never would have expected privatization from the left, before I came to Portland and saw it in action. The degree of fraud and waste that has resulted from this policy here in Portland has also been a pretty big shock.

Kind of seems like you're just arguing with yourself at this point.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Honestly I'd welcome a 70‰ wealth tax on the highest brackets, if it were attached to a coherent and plausible plan to fix systemic problems. And if it were set up to expire once those problems were solved.

Yep, pretty much. It's not the tax rates that are the issue. It's the complete lack of our government's ability to actually deliver results, or even appropriately identify the problem they're trying to fix. "We just need more money" isn't an acceptable approach when the money's not being used wisely.

It's the same overarching view I have regarding regulations. I'm not opposed to regulations, by any means - there are definitely some industries and endeavors that absolutely need oversight. But we also have a humongous pile of pointless and ineffective regulations that don't actually accomplish what they're supposed to accomplish. Clean them up, get rid of the stuff that isn't working, and craft regulations that directly address the risks that require oversight.