Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[Gulliver Foyle]

Good point because the U.S. certainly never had an interest in preventing the Soviet Union from taking over Europe. Our defense of Europe was purely altruistic so how dare they not come to our aid in this dumb pointless war we started without consulting them and are now losing.

The thing is, if the cold war went hot the plan wasn't to defend Europe (or most of it at least), it was to run a fighting retreat to the Atlantic in order to bloody the Russian forces hard enough that fresh US troops could have a relatively easy mop up when they landed.

Europe was NATO's crumple zone.

 

[Steve]

Are you under the impression that Trump and his Cabinet are the only people at Mar-a-Lago?

You are so naive, almost Trump-like, in your inability to understand that so many people do not view the world in simple MAGA black and white.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

You didn't suggest they could. That was your desired outcome.

I said I would not mind seeing the gander getting what the goose gets.
If civilans dont want to die they should not be next to Trump. Right?
As that is the justification the US warmongers keep giving.

Or is killing civilians to get at a leader a crime?

 

[d4m10n]

Europe was NATO's crumple zone.

That's a wonderful metaphor, but I'm skeptical whether NATO signatories would tend to agree, given where they live.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Perhaps you should talk to your ...allies, before starting a war, if you want their help?

I've become very cynical. At present it seems like our "allies" are happy to kowtow to a country that actively drives terrorism throughout the globe so that they can keep their oil coming in. Despite constant focus on climate change and the need to shift off of oil, our "allies" are perfectly willing to get in bed with a country that pays people to attack you and everyone else so they can feed their oil habit.

 

[Emily's Cat]

It is arguable that the security of the North Atlantic area had been restored prior to the invasion of Afghanistan. Given that the Taliban weren't a threat to the US and the main justification was to capture bin Laden (and other involved in 9/11), I think the claim that article 5 was applicable was dubious. Even the continued existence of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan probably didn't in reality threaten the security of the North Atlantic.

Your willingness to tolerate genuine terrorism without action is... weird.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Help themselves maintain their own right to freedom of navigation.

Maybe Europe just doesn't understand the value of that, and what it costs to maintain. They certainly don't act like they understand.

Europe was perfectly content to pay ransoms to Barbary pirates, so this doesn't seem surprising.

 

[The Atheist]

... our "allies" are...

Not actually allies if you start a war without even telling them.

 

[The Atheist]

Meanwhile, even a lot of grunts don't want to participate in the action.

Conscientious objector nonprofit sees 1,000% increase in calls since start of Iran conflict https://share.google/LcMEPbl0arewv6n0y

 

[Emily's Cat]

Send warships to escort European shipping through the straits. Defend those ships against anyone who attacks them.

Do you think the US navy would attack European shipping? Or is it Iran who would attack European shipping?

Iran doesn't have to attack European shipping. The strait is currently closed because Iran violated international law and placed sea mines in an international shipping lane.

But that's okay with the defenders of Iran, because Trump is the antichrist and the country that has been actively funding and directing international terrorist organizations for decades is the real victim.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I still find it almost unbelievable that the very stable genius did not see the Hormuz Strait closure as an obvious consequence of attacking Iran

I don't know whether they foresaw Iran being willing to violate international law as a possible outcome or not. Given that Iran has been actively violating international law by funding and directing terrorism against European and North American nations for decades, it should surprise nobody at all.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Because the US depends on products like oil which get more expensive for everyone whichever supply is cut.

The US has considerable reserves, secured a sizable supply from Venezuela (while simultaneously denying that resource to China and Russia), and has rather sizable unmined deposits in Alaska and throughout the southwest. We're not dependent on ME oil. In the past it's been easily available and lets us retain our natural beauty.

Does Europe want to buy some US oil?

 

[Emily's Cat]

NATO nations are also the the targets of hybrid warfare from Russia, and the US is on the side of Russia

What has led you to this conclusion?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think we should pay the toll, why the hell not? It doesn't seem to be that much financially - while all the time divesting us from fossil fuels as quickly as we can. The rule based world order used to mean things, especially for its creator and upholder, the USA. But let bygones to be bygones.

Sure, why not pay the mafia protection?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

If I spent over a year insulting my friends and making their lives as difficult as I can for no good reason, then made a completely unnecessary mess which affected them more than me, then told them they had to clean it up themselves, I wouldn't be surprised if they told me to go ◊◊◊◊ myself. So why is Trump and his cult?

FTFY

 

[Emily's Cat]

You actually wrote this, didn't you .

Context matters. It was in reference to the "Strait of Trump" thing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Sure, why not pay the mafia protection?

Protection rackets exist because people pay up when they can't trust the authorities to take on and beat the gangsters.

Shipping companies pay Iran $2m to sail through the Strait when Trump keeps declaring victory but clearly can't stop Iran firing missiles.

The really dumb thing is before Trump decided to improve the security situation 130 ships per day were sailing through there unimpeded. Now it's down in single figures and they have to pay Iran for the privilege. Nice job, Trump.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Does Europe want to buy some US oil?

The answer you seek can be read in the prices posted at gas stations.

If countries can't get oil from their usual supplier, for example because some vainglorious buffoon has started a war there, they will buy from somewhere else and the price of oil there will rise due to the extra demand.

 

[dirtywick]

plus the us has less to sell due to increased domestic demand

 

[angrysoba]

I've become very cynical. At present it seems like our "allies" are happy to kowtow to a country that actively drives terrorism throughout the globe so that they can keep their oil coming in. Despite constant focus on climate change and the need to shift off of oil, our "allies" are perfectly willing to get in bed with a country that pays people to attack you and everyone else so they can feed their oil habit.

Who is “kowtowing” to Iran? You know full well that the Strait of Hormuz was open before your mad king had a spastic episode and decided to do a “Pearl Harbor attack” (his words) on Iran.

Now either all other previous presidents were “kowtowing” to Iran as well (again, his claim), or all other presidents (the “dumb presidents” in the words of JD Vance) were not dumb enough to go full retard and attack Iran with no contingency plan for the Strait of Hormuz.

Guess what, until about a year ago, people like Obama and Bush were considered dumb presidents for getting into wars which caused widespread disruption of the global economy. In fact, Trump and Vance specifically warned that if you voted for Harris or Biden then you will get war in Iran because of how dumb they were. Well, I’m sure all those people who voted for Harris, and Biden previously, will indeed be feeling dumb because war in Iran is what they got!