The Gospel

Orangutango said:
Again:



So, god didn't know what the hell he was talking about when he uttered this little gem...? He didn't have the forsight to realize that the above statement had an expiration date when he finally got around to sending his son to, in effect, sweep his dad's previous laws and commandments under the rug...?

It's still a contradiction, and a glaring one at that.

It's funny how all of these so-called devout Christians today willingly chose to either ignore or outright disobey those embarassing, little commandments that don't jive too well with our modern laws and ethics. Your religion has been making concession after concession over the past 2000 years or so... slowly, if not reluctantly, favoring man's laws over god's... because, well... let's face it: society kinda frowns upon the outright killing of those that do not follow your faith (see Deuteronomy 13:7-11 again).
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"Whatever I am now commanding you, you must keep and observe, adding nothing to it, taking nothing away."

Its the same 10 commandments now as it was then
 
Genesius said:
Yeah, I know that one. I quoted it to you.

Heaven and earth have not yet disappeared.

Everything is not accomplished.

Therefore the Law is not yet fulfilled.
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Its saying that until heaven and earth disappear, the law still applies.

But Jesus fulfills that Law.

Law still applies.

Jesus fulfills.
 
ned flandas said:
The Fulfillment of the Law

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
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Hey, everybody! Good news!! We don't have to risk being sent to jail for life for stonning to death all those pesky unbelievers like god told us to do in the old testiment! Jebbus said it's his job now to fulfill his dad's commandments by offing the heathens and sinners! What'a martyr that savior guy is...

I'm off to work... I've had enough fun for one day.
 
Orangutango said:
Again:



So, god didn't know what the hell he was talking about when he uttered this little gem...? He didn't have the forsight to realize that the above statement had an expiration date when he finally got around to sending his son to, in effect, sweep his dad's previous laws and commandments under the rug...?
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No the law still applies.
 
ned flandas said:
"Whatever I am now commanding you, you must keep and observe, adding nothing to it, taking nothing away."

Its the same 10 commandments now as it was then
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Oh, and nice try... all of god's orders and laws for mankind to follow and obey go well beyond the 10 commandments... the bible's chock full of them.

Buh-bye
 
Right, here is what Jesus said about the Laws:

Murder

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

Adultery

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths

33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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Genesius said:
OK, the law still applies. So we still have to stone witches, unbelievers, disobedient children, etc.
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No, you don't have to, because Jayzus will suffer your punishment for you. In fact, you don't have to follow any of the laws set forth in the Bible. I asked Ned if we needed to try to follow them, but so far, no answer.
 
OK, Ned, but. . .

All of that totally contradicts ". . .until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Tell Jesus to make up his flippin' mind and get back to us when he figures it out.

Edited to make it clear I was responding to Ned, not Tricky.
 
Freethinker said:
And then



Is this not a massive contradiction?

So some of the laws don't apply and some do? Which ones do and which ones don't?
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There is the main Law "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS"

Then there is the Law of the Land.

The ten commandments never change, the laws given specifically for a specific time will change as times change.

But the Ten Commandments never change.

I'm rushing now cos i've gotta go.
 
ned flandas said:
But the Ten Commandments never change.

I'm rushing now cos i've gotta go.
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And the Ten Commandments include, do they not:

* Honor thy father and mother
* Have no other God before me
* Keep the Sabbath holy

And it is infractions of these laws which we have been discussing, yes?
 
ned flandas said:
"Whatever I am now commanding you, you must keep and observe, adding nothing to it, taking nothing away."

Its the same 10 commandments now as it was then
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Yes, but which 10 commandments? Because after Moses smashed the first lot in a fit of pique, the second lot included the vitally important injunction to not boil a baby goat in its mother's milk.

Now there's a Commandment I've never broken...yet.
 
ned flandas said:
What happened is that up until the cross, the law was in place.

When Jesus was sacrificed, he took on the worlds sin. He also fulfilled the law for those who beleive in him.

So we are still obligated to it, but it is fulfilled in Christ. When God works in us then it is much easier to keep the laws that were set.
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So God gave us Jesus because we're too lazy to keep his laws.

What ever happened to discipline, people?
 
Just one, last thought on this topic...

Why is it soo easy for these Christians to forget that this "loving and benevolent" god of the new testament they sing their praises to is the same deity that had no problems whatsoever in the old testament:

1) Flooding the entire world except for Noah and his zoo... killing off, excuse the pun, god knows how many thousands upon thousands of people (a complete myth, but it still illustrates the point I am trying to make).
2) Sodom and Gomorrah (and the cities around them) suffering the punishment of "eternal fire" for their sins (riiiight.... as if every single, solitary man, woman and child that lived within the city limits was a "wicked sinner").
3) Brought about the "10 Plagues of Egypt", including the ever popular 10th plague: Death of Firstborn. Nothing shows those unbelievers who's the boss by killing an innocent, newborn child.
4) Commanding the complete and utter extermination of the Canaanites, because they had "absolutely no concept of morality". <sarcasm> After all... it's a well proven fact that every individual belonging to a group of people who, as a society, do not happen to share your views on god are beyond both pity and compassion and should be wiped off the face of the earth to make way for your new kindler, gentler god. </sarcasm>

Oh, I can go on and on and on, but I think I've made my point. Even if there really is a god, and that he had decided to "change his ways" after his kid Jebbus was born, you can't hide from the fact that your creator was a spiteful, vengeful and malicious god for quite a few millennium.
 
Orangutango said:
3) Brought about the "10 Plagues of Egypt", including the ever popular 10th plague: Death of Firstborn. Nothing shows those unbelievers who's the boss by killing an innocent, newborn child.
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Oh, no...it's worse than that.

If this "plague" were to happen right now, depending on how one counts it (firstborn of the mother, or of the father, or of both...remembering divorce and remarriage), then I would stand to lose:

My mother,
my sister,
my eldest son,
four stepchildren (see above)
two nieces,
and my granddaughter.
 
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