The Gospel

Oh, no...it's worse than that.

If this "plague" were to happen right now, depending on how one counts it (firstborn of the mother, or of the father, or of both...remembering divorce and remarriage), then I would stand to lose:

My mother,
my sister,
my eldest son,
four stepchildren (see above)
two nieces,
and my granddaughter.


No.

Exodus 11:5 "and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh12 who sits on his throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle."

Firstborn males. Suggesting that God would kill the firstborn females is just silly.
 
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die." (Deut 21:18-21)

"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die." (Deut 17:2-5 )

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deut 13:6-10)

Thank you Dr. You are far more than Adequate. :)

I've posted and quoted scripture so often for true believers that it no longer interests me to engage them. They're often so lacking in what their own Bible says - having been spoonfed the "safe" passages, that they probably don't even realize that God forbids dwarfs or men with crushed testicles from becoming priests, he held the sun still for an entire day so his followers would have plenty of light to carry out a God-decreed massacre, or that he's green (Jasper).
 
They mean quite a bit to non-Christians as they state that Jesus loves ALL people.

Yeah, well why did God create Gay people, then make it a sin to be gay? Why did he give Adam and Eve the "gift" of free choice knowing what choice they would make, then punishing them for making it? How about Muslim extremists, does Jesus love them too? Why can't he get them to stop killing people? Why couldn't he get the Catholics to stop killing people during the Inquisition? How about Kosovo, and Beirut and Fallujah and Israel and Palestine and Rwanda and Sudan . . .

If Jesus loves ALL people, why doesn't he get more people to stop killing in his name?
 
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I swear... you must be my long, lost twin. I had those same, three examples (worded a little bit differently) ready to include in a rant I was saving for the right moment to post.

So... for my thoughts on the subject... what Mephisto said.

Jen

You might not be so quick to claim me as a long lost twin if you realized that I look just like my avatar. ;) I'm guilty of possession as often as possible.

Those are the three examples I usually toss into fundie's laps just to see if they're acquainted with scripture gleaned from intellectual interest (i.e. scripture you won't find in Bible study). The response is usually typical, they deny any such quote, then they tell us we're talking it out of context, then blah, blah, blah . . .

It seems to me if the Bible is indeed a heavenly-dictated book, God is the worst editor ever! It fails miserably as a "how to to get heaven" manual, and one might believe that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being might have foreseen the psychotic tangents the multitude of ambiguities might cause. Even toy assembly instructions translated from Chinese to English are more concise (and a lot funnier).

BTW, welcome to the forums. :)
 
What happened is that up until the cross, the law was in place.

When Jesus was sacrificed, he took on the worlds sin. He also fulfilled the law for those who beleive in him.

So we are still obligated to it, but it is fulfilled in Christ. When God works in us then it is much easier to keep the laws that were set.

So then, the Ten Commandments are now the Ten Suggestions under the new covenant? Are you saying that the Old Testament is void, or are you saying that IF a witch needs to be killed, Jesus will do it for you?
 
You might not be so quick to claim me as a long lost twin if you realized that I look just like my avatar. ;) I'm guilty of possession as often as possible.

Those are the three examples I usually toss into fundie's laps just to see if they're acquainted with scripture gleaned from intellectual interest (i.e. scripture you won't find in Bible study). The response is usually typical, they deny any such quote, then they tell us we're talking it out of context, then blah, blah, blah . . .

It seems to me if the Bible is indeed a heavenly-dictated book, God is the worst editor ever! It fails miserably as a "how to to get heaven" manual, and one might believe that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being might have foreseen the psychotic tangents the multitude of ambiguities might cause. Even toy assembly instructions translated from Chinese to English are more concise (and a lot funnier).

BTW, welcome to the forums. :)

Thanks, Mephisto.:)

If I may, I would highly recomend to you and everyone else here on the boards who share these views to pick up Sam Harris's book "The End of Faith"... he makes some damn good arguments as to how outdated beliefs and blind faith in religious dogma is the main culprit in stifling scientific progress and will ultimately be the cause for the downfall of civilization.

Jen

Btw... that's my baby picture in my avatar. Wasn't I simply adorable?:D
 
There is the main Law "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS"

Then there is the Law of the Land.

The ten commandments never change, the laws given specifically for a specific time will change as times change.

But the Ten Commandments never change.

I'm rushing now cos i've gotta go.

Ummmm......We aren't talking about the Law of the Land, we are talking about the laws that the Christian god dictated in the bible. Or are you saying that we can change how we interpret god's word in the bible to fit the times?
 
ned flandas
"Whatever I am now commanding you, you must keep and observe, adding nothing to it, taking nothing away."

Its the same 10 commandments now as it was then
But which set of 10 commandments? One of the two sets in Exodus or the later one in Deuteronomy?

The Fulfillment of the Law

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Considering, Jesus didn’t fulfilled the prophecies about the messiah. Christians play the second coming card to get out of that one.
If you are declaring the same thing then Jesus still hasn’t completed (i.e. fulfilled) the requirements listed. He won’t be till the second coming so all the old laws are still firmly in effect.

Ossai
 
Jasper comes in all sorts of colors. I think that when one uses "jasper" as a term for a color, one's talking about the reddish-orange tone. What the Bible means by it, I don't know.

I stand corrected. You are right. Here are a few links:

Chemical Formula: SiO2
Mineral Name: Jasper
Color: Brick red to brownish red
Hardness: 6.5- 7.5
Specific Gravity: 2.6- 2.64

Jasper is a dark green, semi-translucent to opaque form of semiprecious chalcedony. It derives its name from the Greek iaspis. It owes its color to admixed hematite, but when it occurs with clay admixed, the color is a yellowish white or gray, or with goethite, a brown or yellow. Jasper is opaque, fine-grained or dense variety of the silica mineral chert. Jasper, long used for jewelry and ornamentation, has a dull luster but takes a fine polish. Its hardness and other physical properties are those of quartz.

http://www.semi-precious-stone.com/jasper-stone.html
___________

"And thou shalt set in it [the high-priest's breastplate] settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row. And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their enclosings" -- Exodus 28:17-20

"In Exodus 28, we read of these stones in the breastplate of the high priest. The Sardius (the blood-red) stone having to do with Reuben is mentioned first, and the Jasper stone last. Revelation 4 speaks first of the Jasper stone--the clear white stone of Benjamin. This is not to be taken lightly. There is a definite reason for reversing of the stones, putting the first last, and the last first.

"The Sardius was blood-red, speaking of the sacrifice of blood, pointing to the cross and the first coming of Jesus to shed His blood for the remission of sin. The name is derived from two Hebrew words meaning 'behold the Son.' It pointed to the person of whom John the Baptist said, 'Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world' (John 1:29). It also tells us that He (the Lord Jesus) was the first born of every creature, and the first begotten--the ONLY begotten--son of God (John 3:16).

"The Jasper, the last stone in the Old Testament breastplate, represented Benjamin. This was a clear stone, speaking of total victory. On the Jasper stone was Benjamin's name, which is a combination of two Hebrew words (BEN and JAMIN), so scholars tell us, meaning 'the son of my right hand'...or, as one authority puts it, 'the son of my power.' The first and last stones pointed forward to the first and second coming of the great High Priest--none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"However, here in Revelation 4, the order of the stones is reversed. John the Beloved sees Him (Jesus) first as the Jasper, and second as the Sardius. The reason is clear: In the Old Testament the saints looked forward to the day when the Lamb would come, they looked forward to the cross, and therefore saw the Sardius...the blood-red stone...first. They looked beyond that and saw the Jasper, the clear white stone representing His power and His rule at His second coming to set up the kingdom. However, when John had the experience we are now studying, he was on this side of Calvary and the Rapture, and was looking back. John saw, first of all, the Jasper stone, the clear one--and then the red stone, the cross and sacrifice."

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/j001.htm
________

As for knowing what the Bible meant, I think we'll have to rely on Christian Dude and KK to tell us. ;)
 
Do you really want a list of every question you haven't answered in this thread?

It would take a long time to comppse, but I will do that if you will honestly answer them all.
If you find some that you would really like me to try to answer you are more than welcome to re-post them. But I have already been PM'd so much with people telling me I should just go away because everyone here is not interested in my answers. It does leave me feeling very disenchanted at times to even want to share what I believe. I am not purposely looking to provoke people to be angry with what I want to share about a topic or someones remarks or questions in reguards to a certain subject. Everyone already knows I do refer much to what scripture tells us is true but even you FS have numerous times asked me to not reference scripture.
 

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