The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[JayUtah]

The material we’ve seen so far clearly establishes who is doing the best science and who is just running the same old hustle. BMTIG fell flat. OK did not.

 

[JayUtah]

It states very clearly the case will not be reopened.

That's the expected finding of a preliminary report. It determines whether there is enough new evidence to reopen the entire investigation. Was this not clear from the start?

IOW they simply calculated whether it was possible the holes in the hull were caused by the rocks...

And found that not only was it possible, it was likely. Since the rather obvious reason for the midships damage has been thoroughly explained, there is no need to cover any more old ground.

they did nothing more except listen to what some of the survivors were saying...

If you'll read carefully, you'll find they did quite a lot more than that. They answered your questions regarding why the ship sank so fast. They answered your questions regarding stability. They considered the hypothesis of a surface collision and rejected it for lack of evidence.

You said you would wait for the final report and listen to what the experts said about it. I'm an expert telling you what the report means.

Roosipuu himself said he read Jutta Raab as a teenager and concluded she was a nutter, so to speak. In other words, he sees himself as an apparatchik hired to support the establishment, as it were, against critics There is no doubt he is a very clever fellow. However, we all know the type.

I'm not sure what you mean. You said you were focused on facts, not personalities.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

In other words, he sees himself as an apparatchik hired to support the establishment, as it were, against critics There is no doubt he is a very clever fellow. However, we all know the type.

Those are definitely other words. They also have nothing to do with what Roosipuu said.

 

[Axxman300]

IOW they simply calculated whether it was possible the holes in the hull were caused by the rocks, they did nothing more except listen to what some of the survivors were saying, some twenty years later and reassess the damage.

That's not what they did. It's part of what they did.

If you actually read the report (which you didn't) you can see they surveyed the entire benthic area, too sediment samples, rock samples, and mapped the currents at depth. They photographed the exterior of the ship in toto and stitched together a 3D rendering, which has become standard for wreck surveys. They went into the car deck. They removed and recovered the bow car ramp.

They collected all the possible physical evidence possible BEFORE they ran their simulations (as they should have), and every step is presented in this report. Marine Geology is my lone area of knowledge, and this report is first class. They used all available technologies to compile background data to provide a solid foundation for the engineering folks to run their programs. Not only is this report solid enough to explain the accident based on the physical evidence, the data collection of the benthic environment will have other scientific uses for marine science well into the future.

Roosipuu himself said he read Jutta Raab as a teenager and concluded she was a nutter, so to speak. In other words, he sees himself as an apparatchik hired to support the establishment, as it were, against critics

Leaving the obvious leftist politics out of this, let's look at the facts. There was no way to hide evidence collected in this new investigation. Period. Too many people across multiple countries, multiple scientific and political disciplines to get away with some convoluted plot. Raab's incompetence, and unethical behavior has been discussed multiple times before. She is an activist, not a journalist.

You can try to move the goal posts again, but you have nowhere to move them to. The Estonia sank because the bow visor was knocked off in heavy seas it was never designed to sail. Period. That's it. That's all she wrote. Conspiracy Theorists only victimize themselves because the truth doesn't play favorites.

 

[junkshop]

It states very clearly the case will not be reopened. IOW they simply calculated whether it was possible the holes in the hull were caused by the rocks, they did nothing more except listen to what some of the survivors were saying, some twenty years later and reassess the damage. Roosipuu himself said he read Jutta Raab as a teenager and concluded she was a nutter, so to speak. In other words, he sees himself as an apparatchik hired to support the establishment, as it were, against critics There is no doubt he is a very clever fellow. However, we all know the type.

This is done. It is over. All the baseless conspiratorial bollocks you have pushed over the years has been shown to be conspiratorial bollocks, and baseless.

let it go.

 

[autumn1971]

Odds on that?
I’ll give 1,000,0000,00’ minutes of hours

But I’m in a wheeled submarine about to attack an aircraft.
And there is a mysterious radio blackout
So I will wait until a coherent solution is given

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Then how come everyone apart from you knows what it was?

That's the thing about conspiracy theories. Eventually, everyone must be in on the secret except the theorist.

 

[The Common Potato]

My mum died 31 years ago today and Fred West hanged himself 31 years ago tomorrow. And my mum and I almost once went to live in Gloucester. Eeek!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

My mum died 31 years ago today and Fred West hanged himself 31 years ago tomorrow. And my mum and I almost once went to live in Gloucester. Eeek!

Open your eyes sheeple!!!1!

 

[LondonJohn]

Any new news on this? I assume that the new report has - quite rightly - been positively accepted by almost all stakeholders (except for the "German Group of Charlatans Experts")

 

[Here_to_learn]

Any new news on this?

Nothing - at least in the major Swedish press. The conclusions and decisions were published and after that nothing more.

I'm sure that there are dark corners where someone is still shouting about it, but that does not reach out into the regular media as far as I've seen.

 

[Spektator]

Any new news on this? I assume that the new report has - quite rightly - been positively accepted by almost all stakeholders (except for the "German Group of Charlatans Experts")

It's still on the bottom.

 

[catsmate]

Nothing - at least in the major Swedish press. The conclusions and decisions were published and after that nothing more.

I'm sure that there are dark corners where someone is still shouting about it, but that does not reach out into the regular media as far as I've seen.

This one?

Estonia ferry disaster in 1994 caused by bow failure not explosion, report confirms

Investigators say latest studies of wreckage reveal no sign to back up alternative theories of a collision or a blast

www.theguardian.com

MV ESTONIA Preliminary Assessment: Damage on Starboard Side Originates fromContact with Seabed

 

[Here_to_learn]

This one?

Estonia ferry disaster in 1994 caused by bow failure not explosion, report confirms

Investigators say latest studies of wreckage reveal no sign to back up alternative theories of a collision or a blast

www.theguardian.com

MV ESTONIA Preliminary Assessment: Damage on Starboard Side Originates fromContact with Seabed

Yes, the press conference was on dec 16th and there are links from back then in this thread to the recording and the reports.

The press reported on the press conference but after that nothing new that I've seen or that came up when searched.

 

[Helen]

Yes, the press conference was on dec 16th and there are links from back then in this thread to the recording and the reports.

The press reported on the press conference but after that nothing new that I've seen or that came up when searched.

Haven't seen anything either, not even from the small (and dwindling), but vociferous, group of relatives, who refused to accept that it was an accident. One brought about by carelessness, one that could have been avoided, certainly, and one waiting to happen, but still an accident.

 

[catsmate]

So this thread is kinda defunct then?

 

[Mojo]

So this thread is kinda defunct then?

No more than it ever was.

 

[Here_to_learn]

A book was released two weeks ago "Den sista lögnen" (The last lie).

You can read about the book here: https://swedenherald.com/article/russian-spy-behind-conspiracy-theories-about-the-ms-estonia

In “The Last Lie – Estonia and the Legacy of the Russian Spy,” Patrik Oksanen and Andreas Edevald, a former diplomat who worked at the Psychological Defense Agency, show that much of it can be traced to one person: Anton Surikov, a colonel in the GRU.

The book, with some 40+ pages of references for the statements in it, tracks several of the conspiracy theories around the sinking of Estonia back to a report "Felix report", aimed at discrediting the new leadership in Estonia.

The book also shows when Jutta Rabe was first exposed to the report, and that she based her reporting on it. Over all I'd say that the book is quite detailed and feels trustworthy. The authors for example point out when lack of sources leaves smaller gaps in the story.

The press release for the book is at https://press.volante.se/posts/pressreleases/new-book-points-to-russian-influence-operatio

 

[junkshop]

A book was released two weeks ago "Den sista lögnen" (The last lie).

You can read about the book here: https://swedenherald.com/article/russian-spy-behind-conspiracy-theories-about-the-ms-estonia


The book, with some 40+ pages of references for the statements in it, tracks several of the conspiracy theories around the sinking of Estonia back to a report "Felix report", aimed at discrediting the new leadership in Estonia.

The book also shows when Jutta Rabe was first exposed to the report, and that she based her reporting on it. Over all I'd say that the book is quite detailed and feels trustworthy. The authors for example point out when lack of sources leaves smaller gaps in the story.

The press release for the book is at https://press.volante.se/posts/pressreleases/new-book-points-to-russian-influence-operatio

Interesting. This:

...The book demonstrates how speculation about submarine collisions, secret transports, and government cover-ups gained traction—despite all official investigations concluding that the disaster was an accident...

certainly sounds awfully familiar.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

That's fascinating. I'm curious to know how Surikov's report was presented. I suppose I mean, who did Rabe think was its source? Presumably it didn't declare itself to be GRU black propaganda.