Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

[Hercules56]

Why is the 15' necessary to prevent physical violence?

Hard to punch or kick someone from 15' away.

Unless your Mr. Fantastic.

 

[junkshop]

How often do security guards at abortion clinics in UKia get murdered?

How often is acceptable to you? I would say never.

 

[Hercules56]

But you oppose action being taken to prevent harassment.

There is NO law that can truly prevent harassment.

 

[Thermal]

You want to censor me?

From 15 feet away and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Bet that 500 foot thing is looking pretty appetizing now, isn't it?

 

[Hercules56]

From 15 feet away and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Bet that 500 foot thing is looking pretty appetizing now, isn't it?

500 foot Prior Restraint Zone cannot prevent harassment.

 

[Mojo]

Hard to punch or kick someone from 15' away.

Unless your Mr. Fantastic.

But isn't punching or kicking someone illegal? If that prevents harassment in your universe, surely it also prevents physical violence.

 

[junkshop]

Pedantic nitpick: 150 metres is not 500 feet. Granted, the precise conversion is cluncky and I have no issue with rounding for the sake of brevity. A less inaccurate rounding would be 490 feet, but given that we are talking about UK law we should be using the distances specified in those laws.

We are not, after all, not discussing the US in this thread.

 

[Hercules56]

But isn't punching or kicking someone illegal? If that prevents harassment in your universe, surely it also prevents physical violence.

Ok

 

[Steve]

15' allows voices to be heard but no physical violence to be done.

Including harassing voices. The voices you sometimes claim they shouldn't be subject to and sometimes say they should.

 

[junkshop]

Polite and civil protest is not cruel or harassment.

I strongly disagree. In this context, it very much is.

 

[Thermal]

500 foot Prior Restraint Zone cannot prevent harassment.

Who said it would? It's a deterrent. You don't even bother trying to protest in a zone you are excluded from, as our intrepid OP guy found out.

 

[Hercules56]

Including harassing voices...

So arrest them.

Duhhh...

 

[Hercules56]

I strongly disagree. In this context, it very much is.

That's not reasonable.

 

[Steve]

So arrest them.

Duhhh...

Hercules56 - "First let them commit a crime by harassing the clinic's users, then arrest them when the damage has been done." This results in both harassment and arrests. Harassment that you sometimes claim should not happen, and sometimes require it to happen.

Steve - "Provide a reasonable level of protection for the clinic's users prior to any crime being committed." This reduces the chances of a crime being committed and results in no harassment and no arrests - a better result for all concerned, users and protesters alike.

 

[junkshop]

That's not reasonable.

I find your position unreasonable. We appear to have reached an impasse.

 

[Hercules56]

Hercules56 - "First let them commit a crime by harassing the clinic's users, then arrest them when the damage has been done." This results in both harassment and arrests. Harassment that you sometimes claim should not happen, and sometimes require it to happen.

Steve - "Provide a reasonable level of protection for the clinic's users prior to any crime being committed." This reduces the chances of a crime being committed and results in no harassment and no arrests - a better result for all concerned, users and protesters alike.

Steve's idea doesn't prevent harassment, only discourages it.

 

[junkshop]

Steve's idea doesn't prevent harassment, only discourages it.

A journey of a thousand steps, and so on and so forth.

 

[Steve]

Steve's idea doesn't prevent harassment, only discourages it.

You might notice Steve did not use the word prevent. He did however use the word reduce.

Hercules56's idea does nothing to prevent or reduce harassment. In fact it requires it before any action is taken.

 

[Hercules56]

You might notice Steve did not use the word prevent. He did however use the word reduce.

Hercules56's idea does nothing to prevent or reduce harassment...

Wrong.

Strong criminal penalties is a great disincentive to criminal activity.

Unless one is a masochist or suicidal.

 

[arthwollipot]

Apologies for the length of this post. It's a long thread and I wanted to do it justice. Also apologies if I repeat something that someone else has already said.

I do. Facts don't care about your feelings. They are stubborn things that won't ever change because of the way they are framed.

Framing doesn't change facts, it changes the ways in which facts are communicated. It changes the ways in which facts are interpreted. It's the difference between "Antifa terrorists" and "Peaceful protestors". Both are referring to people who are engaging in protests, but that fact is framed very differently.

YOU seem to not want to enforce them, you just want to ban ALL free speech within 500' from an abortion clinic, be it civil or not.

We've already been through this. You're free to say whatever you want. You're not free to engage in an anti-abortion protest.

Abortion clinic employees are not getting an abortion. Therefore they are not in a condition of traumatized.

They're getting literal death threats.

Would you support a 500' protest exclusion zone around 10 Downing St?

Buckingham Palace?

Scotland Yard?

All synagogues?

What about around the Capitol, on January 6th?

Its not.

You guys should arrest people committing harassment and other laws that breach the peace.

Seems like you guys dont wanna do that.

We don't "wanna" do that after the women have suffered harassment, no. We "wanna" prevent them from being harassed in the first place.

If you truly believe in Freedom of Speech, everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt that they can behave themselves.

How incredibly naïve. They won't. If allowed the opportunity, people will be selfish and cruel and do what feels good to them at the time. This is why we have laws.

In a free society, you can't prevent all crime.

And therefore you shouldn't bother trying, right?

Punish the criminals.

They're not criminals until the crime has already been committed, by which time it might be too late.

Polite and civil protest is not cruel or harassment.

And also not what we're talking about.

15' allows voices to be heard but no physical violence to be done.

I assure you that physical violence can definitely be done from 15' away. Even I can throw a rock further than that.

Also, physical is not the only kind of violence.