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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
We were talking about deformations as seen on reinforced steel after a detonation.
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Yes.

But as explosives are never natural, but are all made artificially, this would still mean you'd need a lab. Wouldn't you?

That or the original statement is complete nonsense.

Which of these 2 options is it?
Do we need a lab to artificially get those deformations? Or can it also occur outside of labs?
 
Vixen said:
Herewith:

Andi Meister (born November 17, 1938 in Lüganus ) is an Estonian engineer and politician.

1962, . The Master graduated from the Tallinn Polytechnic Institute as a traffic and bridge construction engineer. Later he worked for the Kohtla-Järve Road Administration and then for the Ministry of Road Transport and Roads of the Estonian SSR .

The master joined the Estonian independence movement, he was a member of the ERSP . In 1990 - in 1992 , he headed the Ministry of Transport and Communications, the Public Relations Department and then worked for a short time in the Estonian State Chancellery, while the Prime Minister Tiit Vahi support [1] .

In 1992 - 1994, was a champion of Mart Laar's first government transport and communications minister, and continued in the same office also Andres Tarand government ( 1994, - 1995, ).

On September 28, 1994 , the Estonia disaster occurred and after the accident, Meister was appointed head of the Estonian- Finnish - Swedish commission of inquiry; he held this position until 1996 . until. Following his resignation, he published in 1997 . in the book "Unfinished Logbook: Mayday Estonia III", which contains his personal views and thoughts on the shipwreck.

2009 . In 1987 , Meister published the novel "Light in a Non - Existent Window", the manuscript of which was completed in 1987 . for the year. [2] The Master has also studied the history of the Lüganus region.
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As you are well aware this does not support your assertions. You appear to be, again, attempting to distract from your lies.
 
LondonJohn said:
Ah, but "herewith" though? A sure sign of a high-quality post underpinned by a high-quality intellect. Innit.
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What it's important to remember in this thread is that you may in fact be communicating with an intellect far superior to anything you imagined possible.


Consider a game of chess, where your opponent, having surprised you with a wildly unusual and lossy opening, has just made an obvious and clumsy move and is on the point of losing their queen.

1) There is the possibility they are just really crap at chess and you are, as it appears, winning easily.

2) It's possible they are on a stratospherically higher intellectual plane than you. They are not really playing chess, they are making a rather sly and ironic homage to a moderately famous match from 1891 and smirking slightly at your failure to recognise their little joke. But nevertheless, in terms of this game, they are losing badly, even though they are confident they could sweep you off the board if they exerted the slightest effort.

3) They assumed they were good at chess and can't quite be sure why it looks a bit like they're struggling for now. You must be cheating. They would like to imagine, and would like you to imagine, that option (2) is real.
 
erwinl said:
Yes.

But as explosives are never natural, but are all made artificially, this would still mean you'd need a lab. Wouldn't you?

That or the original statement is complete nonsense.

Which of these 2 options is it?
Do we need a lab to artificially get those deformations? Or can it also occur outside of labs?
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The idea was to acquire a piece of metal from the bow visor and compare its deformations with what can be expected at what heat and at what impact if it resembles a deformation caused by a high impact explosive, the usual stuff a metallurgist can identify.
 
catsmate said:
Except it isn't actually true. A minor point.
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The body of Captain Arvo Andresson was confirmed dead on the bridge as identified by divers (yet for some reason they never brought his body up for post-mortem). Some members of the Estonian crew were recovered, dead and identified. Others are claimed to have been listed as survivors, for example their relatives receiving phone calls or advice that their loved one would soon be arriving at the airport, yet never to be seen again, nor their 'bodies recovered' are as follows:

Tina Müür, Lembit Leiger, Viktor Bogdanov, Kaimar Kikas, Merit Kikas, Agur Targama, Hannely (Anne) Veide, Hanka-Hannika Veide, Ago Tominga and Kahlev Vatras are/were among the survivors like Avo Piht .

They all belonged to the crew of M / S Estonia.
 
Vixen said:
I think it's protocol to list passengers.
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Passengers? In this protocol you imagine, which crewman's job do you imagine it would be to take down the names of any people the rescue helicopter plucks from the sea, and at which point do you imagine the protocol would say that information should be added to the pilot's log?
 
Andy_Ross said:
You would think wrong.

You were shown examples of pilot log books the first time this was brought up.
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I can't read Estonian so I have no idea what is in Meister's book but Jutta Rabe made a claim that some helicopter pilot got chatting with a survivor who said he came from a small town in Estonia and that this survivor was Piht, who did come from there. Now you might say this is bolleaux but Meister was a member of the JAIC and thus his view can't be brushed off as a conspiracy theory., given he has had sight of highly confidential stuff and more.
 
Vixen said:
I can't read Estonian so I have no idea what is in Meister's book but Jutta Rabe made a claim that some helicopter pilot got chatting with a survivor who said he came from a small town in Estonia and that this survivor was Piht, who did come from there. Now you might say this is bolleaux but Meister was a member of the JAIC and thus his view can't be brushed off as a conspiracy theory., given he has had sight of highly confidential stuff and more.
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What does this have to do with the post it is supposedly replying to?

Also Jutte Rabe is not a particularly trustworthy source. This has been explained to you.
 
catsmate said:
An understanding of science is necessary to debate scientific topics. As you so embarrassingky demonstrated in the Luton Airport car park fire thread, and elsewhere, you lack even a basic grounding in the sciences
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Well chartered accountants are classed as STEM so we are not all a bunch of Lotus-1-2-3 spreadsheet nerds any more. We are highly analytical and able to deal with complex data, is the theory in order to pass the tough exams. Contrary to the view that psychology is 'just a social science' you won't get in without a strong science background, especially in biology. So whilst we might know nothing about welding - NOTHING! - it doesn't mean we can't understand how ships float and sink.
 
Vixen said:
I can't read Estonian so I have no idea what is in Meister's book but Jutta Rabe made a claim that some helicopter pilot got chatting with a survivor who said he came from a small town in Estonia and that this survivor was Piht, who did come from there. Now you might say this is bolleaux but Meister was a member of the JAIC and thus his view can't be brushed off as a conspiracy theory., given he has had sight of highly confidential stuff and more.
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You regard Meister as an authority but don't know what's in Meister's book. You would like us to believe a rumour Rabe reported.

How are these in any way related?
 
Vixen said:
Well chartered accountants are classed as STEM so we are not all a bunch of Lotus-1-2-3 spreadsheet nerds any more. We are highly analytical and able to deal with complex data, is the theory in order to pass the tough exams. Contrary to the view that psychology is 'just a social science' you won't get in without a strong science background, especially in biology. So whilst we might know nothing about welding - NOTHING! - it doesn't mean we can't understand how ships float and sink.
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Absolute gibberish. Meaningless twaddle. You were shown to be hilariously incompetent, repeatedly, by people with actual knowledge.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
What does this have to do with the post it is supposedly replying to?

Also Jutte Rabe is not a particularly trustworthy source. This has been explained to you.
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How can you impune such a detail filled, solidly backed by evidence post Mark???
I mean, seriously- a known dubious source made a claim that some unnamed guy got chatting with some other unnamed guy, who said he came from somewhere
What more could you need???
 
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