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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

MarkCorrigan said:
To be fair to Vixen she did specify she was not a member of the TNS. She just claimed she would qualify.
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The one thing that Vixen has shown expertise at is framing her statements to allow for future denial when called out on them. Makes every single thing she writes dubious. No credibility whatsoever.
 
Vixen said:
Nothing to do with IQ. I am well aware there is a high level of it in ISF. I was referring to the propensity of being interested in things that most people seem to find incredulous that anyone could be (for example, the evolution of dinosaurs, etc.) So the idea that only people in the naval or shipping industry can know anything about the Estonia accident makes me incredulous.
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The claim was that you are a triple niner. That is very specifically about IQ.

No-one is claiming what you're saying they are. They're saying that because of their expertise they are more able to interpret the data and so on.

Stop lying about what other people say. Are you going to deal with the fact Mojo went back and found your post wherein you lied about me and the post where you implied I was a racist?
 
were talking about distinctive deformation in metal caused by a high explosive (=high temperatures).
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Just for information. RDX and PETN, the main constituents of plastic explosives burn at just a few hundred degrees centigrade.
It's deformation of metal is by the shock wave produced they it explode. The shock wave from a typical Plastic Explosive is around 8000 to 9000 m/s (26,550 ft/s). That's what deforms the metal.
 
Vixen said:
Thank you so much for digging this out. As you can see, I was employing the dialectical technique of debate in drawing to the poster's attention, in the form of a cutting question, as to whether his belief it was an ordinary deportation was based on intellectual consideration of the facts or just a lazy assumption based on what we normally consider to be reasons for deportation. As you can see, it is NOT my calling the poster 'a racist' at all. So all this time I have had to tolerate enormous resentment, instead of the question being treated objectively.
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Nope, it was a clear implication of racism, using the rhetorical technique of Just Asking Questions in case you were challenged on it.
 
Vixen said:
It's to do with the Simonton Gap of comprehension. So anybody outside of this is extremely bullied for it.
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I was not familiar with the term so I looked it up. The Simonton gap is a suggested gulf of understanding between people whose IQ's are more than 30 points separated. Combining this with your claim to be in the top 0.1% of intelligence makes it plain you are arguing that you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

I hope you will be reassured to hear that no, this is very much not the case. Your arguments are not being challenged for being too clever or too subtle.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I was not familiar with the term so I looked it up. The Simonton gap is a suggested gulf of understanding between people whose IQ's are more than 30 points separated. Combining this with your claim to be in the top 0.1% of intelligence makes it plain you are arguing that you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

I hope you will be reassured to hear that no, this is very much not the case. Your arguments are not being challenged for being too clever or too subtle.
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We're just too stupid to realize that tracked submarines make perfect sense, and that radiation can melt steel without killing everyone on board a ship. I see the error of my average ways now.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I was not familiar with the term so I looked it up. The Simonton gap is a suggested gulf of understanding between people whose IQ's are more than 30 points separated. Combining this with your claim to be in the top 0.1% of intelligence makes it plain you are arguing that you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

I hope you will be reassured to hear that no, this is very much not the case. Your arguments are not being challenged for being too clever or too subtle.
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To be fair, the right concept might be wrongly applied...
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I was not familiar with the term so I looked it up. The Simonton gap is a suggested gulf of understanding between people whose IQ's are more than 30 points separated. Combining this with your claim to be in the top 0.1% of intelligence makes it plain you are arguing that you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

I hope you will be reassured to hear that no, this is very much not the case. Your arguments are not being challenged for being too clever or too subtle.
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I am perfectly willing to concede that a Simonton gap might explain why someone whose IQ lies well outside the norm would have problems understanding what people say to her.
 
Andi Meister has died. He was on the JAIC for Estonia but left before the report was signed off:

Doubts​

However, Meister also says that he himself has doubts about the reasons for the visor's detachment.

Finland was represented on the committee by accident investigator Kari Lehtola , who, according to Meister, had taken pieces of the raised bow visor for further analysis. Lehtola wanted to know whether there were any explosives residues on the visor.

– I started to have doubts when they started talking about covering the wreck with concrete to keep it peaceful. It didn't seem logical at all.
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According to Meister, Sweden's delay in providing the videos filmed from inside the ship was also suspicious.

He also found it strange that the bow visor, designed by German shipbuilders known for their precision, would have come off as a result of rough seas.

– It started to bother me. That it was possible that someone had a hand in this.

Meister said it was possible that someone could have made a small crack in the bow visor so that it would have opened mid-flight.

– It's possible, but there's no evidence for it.
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Departure from the investigative committee​

Meister never learned the results of Lehtola's research because he left the investigative committee early. Lehtola died in 2019. [Google translate ILTA-LEHTI
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As I recall, Meister wrote the Pilot's Log Book, or similar title, in which it is claimed a list[_?] of missing Estonian crew were part of helicopter log.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
The claim was that you are a triple niner. That is very specifically about IQ.

No-one is claiming what you're saying they are. They're saying that because of their expertise they are more able to interpret the data and so on.

Stop lying about what other people say. Are you going to deal with the fact Mojo went back and found your post wherein you lied about me and the post where you implied I was a racist?
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No. It was about a communication gap. I was discussing the two 'disappeared' Egyptian guys but you seem to see things more personally. How would I know what your beliefs are.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I was not familiar with the term so I looked it up. The Simonton gap is a suggested gulf of understanding between people whose IQ's are more than 30 points separated. Combining this with your claim to be in the top 0.1% of intelligence makes it plain you are arguing that you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

I hope you will be reassured to hear that no, this is very much not the case. Your arguments are not being challenged for being too clever or too subtle.
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As I have not committed any wrongdoing, the treatment I receive as if I am a wrongdoer, I can only imagine is to do with a communication issue.
 
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Here's Professor Ida Westermann's theories:

Several cracks are visible on the front visor of the Estonia that can only be caused by high heat and very high pressure, experts said at a press conference in Stockholm on Tuesday. Metallurgical researcher Ida Westermann , who analyzed the microstructure of the cracks, said the damage resembles structures after explosion welding – a technique in which explosives are used to join materials.

The Swedish mainstream media, horrified by the evidence, boycotted the press conference, but the Estonian newspaper Postimees broadcast the event live. The press conference was organized by, among others, former MP Lars Ångström (MP). The investigations involve a team of experts who participated in and analyzed the underwater material collected during the official new accident investigation conducted this summer, as well as examining the physical parts of the detached bow visor recovered from the seabed and stored at the naval base in Karlskrona. MV Lehti
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A recent press conference claimed that pieces from the bow visor taken from the MS Estonia, which sank in September 1994 with the loss of 852 lives, show signs of a potential explosion. The fragments analyzed, which appear to have been subject to extreme temperatures, were not retrieved in any of the recent dives to the wreck, which lies in around 100 meters of water south of Finland's Turku archipelago, but had been kept in storage in Sweden. ERR
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Her presentation and slides here:

http://fokusestonia.se/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Pressekonferanse-1.pdf

Slides

https://www.postimees.ee/embed/video/6549120
 
Vixen said:
Andi Meister has died. He was on the JAIC for Estonia but left before the report was signed off:

As I recall, Meister wrote the Pilot's Log Book, or similar title, in which it is claimed a list[_?] of missing Estonian crew were part of helicopter log.
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Do you have a citation for that?
 
Vixen said:
Here's Professor Ida Westermann's theories:
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The previous discussion of this topic begins around here:
JayUtah

Post in thread 'The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II'

The Man said:
Science Explosives

As the shock wave passes it flexes the object. Some of the energy that goes into the deformation is given back as the elastic deformation returns to normal. However, not all of the energy is rereleased in the relaxation of the object. The difference in energy absorbed from the shock wave and energy released in the relaxation after it passes is retained in the object by heating it. Basically by friction of the various planes of the crystalline structure shifting one way or other and then back.
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This could be misleading in that it specifically calls out...
 
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