Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

No, my argument is she doesn't fit your narrative.

Perhaps you are confused about what my point is, because he fits it perfectly. So answer my question directly: should this man use the women's bathroom?

 

[Mycroft]

Do you really think it makes sense to compare spaces set aside at the request of an oppressed group (females) to spaces where an oppressed group (people of African ancestry) has been forcibly segregated by an oppressor group?

I keep seeing this narrative where women demanded segregated bathrooms as a part of women's rights, but I don't remember that part of history. My understanding is women's bathrooms came about with men's bathrooms, and were an effort to keep people from relieving themselves on the streets. Later on with the rise of the industrial revolution, they became a necessity for women entering the workforce and only became commonplace when shopping became popular.

 

[Mycroft]

Perhaps you are confused about what my point is, because he fits it perfectly. So answer my question directly: should this man use the women's bathroom?

I don't know, that's a hard question. Here is another hard question, should all trans-people be judged by this person?

 

[smartcooky]

Very lofty and altruistic attitude, putting the comfort of others above your own. Funny thing though... the anti-trans contingent here doesn't share your spirit of goodwill. "◊◊◊◊ them" is what it boils down to, unabashedly.

None, not one, of the posters here, such as @Rolfe, @Emily's Cat, @Elaedith, @theprestige, @Ziggurat, @Hercules56 et al, including myself, that you keep characterizing as "anti-trans" are anything near what you claim them to be. We are pro-women's rights, and the two positions are not contradictory. I know the TRA side of this debate think is a black and white issue... "if you are not for us, you must be against us", but that simply is not true. You can support women's rights and trans rights - holding both positions is a perfectly valid stance. We have repeatedly stated that position, y'all just pretend we haven't, and you keep calling us bigots and transphobes.

And if you want to see why women are afraid of these people, look no further than the disgusting behaviour of the trans-rights protesters on the weekend - threats to violence and death against women. You DO NOT SEE WOMEN behaving that way at women's rights gatherings, at all ever!

 

[Mycroft]

Does it? Why? Think about your answer very hard.

I don't think this is honest at all. The whole anti-trans argument is what if they're not sincere and are just lying to gain access to women's only spaces.

If they're sincere then they just want to use the bathroom like everyone else and not bother anyone. If they're not sincere then they're just like Danny Trejo in lipstick looking to rape a cis-woman.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't know, that's a hard question. Here is another hard question, should all trans-people be judged by this person?

They should certainly be judged by actions of their representatives, the TRA protestors on the weekend. TRA true colours were flown for all to see!

 

[Mycroft]

I don't agree with this. There are children being pushed into transition by one parent while the other is trying to keep the child grounded. This automatically makes that attempt improper. As the article says, judges need to be able to take individual family circumstances into account.

These parents who are pushing their kids to transition, do you imagine they're doing it with no input from the kids?

 

[Mycroft]

They should certainly be judged by actions of their representatives, the TRA protestors on the weekend. TRA true colours were flown for all to see!

Back in the 80's the ANC in South Africa used to put tires over the heads of collaborators and light them on fire.

Which was awful, and they were rightfully condemned for it.

At the same time, as awful as it was, it didn't make the cause of black equality in South Africa less just.

 

[Mycroft]

For all of my life, the female restroom has been the only place that Betty can go to actually get away from Bob for a bit. It's an escape that many females use in many packed-venue social situations, especially ones where alcohol and horniness are present.

If you remove the sex-segregation from restrooms... what is your proposal for how Betty can get away from Bob's persistent pestering?

In your scenario, is Bob a trans-woman? If not, your scenario makes no sense.

 

[smartcooky]

These parents who are pushing their kids to transition, do you imagine they're doing it with no input from the kids?

Why should they? Kids rarely, if ever, know whats best for them.

Given that many of the aspects of transitioning are irreversible, and given the explosion in numbers of young adults detransitioning, there is no way that ANY minor should be allowed to transition medically until they reach the age of majority.

 

[Mycroft]

All you really need to know about what's been happening can be deduced by comparing the amount of time spent talking about and catering for the feelings of trans-identified men, compared to the amount of time spent considering the feelings of women.

Not every woman shares your opinion.

I think I need to resume my poll. See how many people I need to ask before I find even one who agrees with you.

 

[smartcooky]

Back in the 80's the ANC in South Africa used to put tires over the heads of collaborators and light them on fire.

Which was awful, and they were rightfully condemned for it.

At the same time, as awful as it was, it didn't make the cause of black equality in South Africa less just.

All of which has nothing whatever to do with the transgender debate, but thanks for the utterly irrelevant and useless information anyway.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I don't think this is honest at all. The whole anti-trans argument is what if they're not sincere and are just lying to gain access to women's only spaces.

If they're sincere then they just want to use the bathroom like everyone else and not bother anyone. If they're not sincere then they're just like Danny Trejo in lipstick looking to rape a cis-woman.

It seems to me the subject ought to centre around "exposing oneself". When I'm in the gent's room I am either inside a stall or standing at the urinal, separated on both the right and left side by a partician, so I'm not exposing myself, as they say. Someone who is moving about outside of those particians (with free-range genitals in view) are exposing themselves. I don't like seeing it any more than the average woman would. If my opinion is based upon social or religious morality then it is what it is.

 

[Mycroft]

All of which has nothing whatever to do with the transgender debate, but thanks for the utterly irrelevant and useless information anyway.

It illustrates how the actions of the protestors don't invalidate the justness of the cause.

But you know that and are being obtuse on purpose.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Back in the 80's the ANC in South Africa used to put tires over the heads of collaborators and light them on fire.

Not exactly, but close enough.

 

[Mycroft]

Because we don't want rando males around when we have to wash out skivvies in a sink and then dry them under an air-dryer! Why is this so ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hard to understand?

Not rando men. Transwomen.

 

[lionking]

Was that seriously your takeaway?

Well what was your point then? What does it matter if he raped before or after ‘transitioning”?

 

[Mycroft]

It seems to me the subject ought to centre around "exposing oneself". When I'm in the gent's room I am either inside a stall or standing at the urinal, separated on both the right and left side by a partician, so I'm not exposing myself, as they say. Someone who is moving about outside of those particians (with free-range genitals in view) are exposing themselves. I don't like seeing it any more than the average woman would. If my opinion is based upon social or religious morality then it is what it is.

Exactly!

I don't remember the last time I saw a penis in the men's room, but people here are acting like transwomen will be jacking off in front of the mirror while daring ciswomen to object to it.

Transwomen want privacy at least as much as ciswomen do.

 

[Mycroft]

Well what was your point then? What does it matter if he raped before or after ‘transitioning”?

They're supposed to be an example of why we can't let transwomen in the women's room, yet their rapes didn't happen in any women's space and didn't happen while they were trans.

I don't really think you needed to have that explained, but there you are.

 

[Mycroft]

That's curious because womenwomen don't talk about punching their opponents, but transwomen certainly talk about punching anybody who disagrees with them.

Uhm, some cis-women do.