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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

What do you mean by 'transgender identified females'? Do you mean transmen or transwomen? Either way that's a stupid insistence.

I just had a gay man on Twitter pretty much go for my throat because he was so incensed by stupid girls who were invading gay men's social spaces and coming on to him. (I had said that fetishes were very rare in women.) I told him to laugh at them and tell them to go away. He got even madder and said why didn't we just do that to the AGP men. I said, you make my point for me, and that was the end of the conversation.

By the way, Emily, it's "bonus hole".
 
Right, but if the bikini waxer advertises services for women, not specifying females only, I think they got themselves into a pickle based on our laws as they are.
Only if you retcon the word "woman" to only mean some magical gendery soul that people are assumed to have. Up until about five minutes ago, "woman" was understood by ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ everyone to mean females.

A female deer is a doe. A female horse is a mare. A female sheep is a ewe. A female goat is a nanny. A female chicken is a hen. A female fox is a vixen.

Why don't human females get to have a term that simultaneously identifies both species and sex?
 
I get that you're getting less comfortable about restrooms being sex-segregated. Let me give you a scenario, and let me know if it alters your view.

Venue: Dance club, where lots of people are drinking. Bob the Male decides that Betty the Female is super hot, and Bob wants to hit that. So naturally, Bob starts flirting with Betty, dancing near Betty, etc. Betty on the other hand, isn't interested in Bob. Betty moves away from Bob on the dance floor, but Bob keeps following and trying to dance with Betty. Eventually, Betty leaves the dance floor and heads back to a table. Bob follows Betty over and continues trying to talk with Betty and interact. Bob's had a few, so Bob's being a bit pushy and is definitely NOT taking the hint. Bob, in their inebriated and horny state, mistakes Betty's politeness for a come-on.

For all of my life, the female restroom has been the only place that Betty can go to actually get away from Bob for a bit. It's an escape that many females use in many packed-venue social situations, especially ones where alcohol and horniness are present.

If you remove the sex-segregation from restrooms... what is your proposal for how Betty can get away from Bob's persistent pestering?

Once upon a time, when I was a student, I actually pulled another woman out of a somewhat simlar situation. In this case Betty had actually come to the party with Bob, but she wasn't as keen on him as he evidently was on her. However, he was her lift home. However, it appeared that the lift wasn't actually going to be going to her home. He was expecting her to go home with him.

The complication was that Betty quite liked Bob underneath it all, and was slightly tempted, but the sane nine-tenths of her knew that going home with him right now was a really bad life choice. I heard all this, with extra detail, in the Ladies room. I said to her, look. I'm going quite soon, and I have my dad's car, and I can go wherever I like. I can take you home. I will take you home, if you want me to. If you want to go with Bob that's your choice, you're a grown adult. But if you would prefer not to go with Bob, this is your chance. I'm leaving in ten minutes. If you don't want to go with him, come with me.

She came with me. I drove her home. In the opposite direction to my own home, but what the hell, she needed me.

I don't know what happened next. I barely knew her. In fact I don't remember if I knew her at all. Maybe Bob was the love of her life after all, but if he was, she could still get back together with him if she wanted to. But right at that moment she needed an escape hatch to avoid getting in deeper than she was comfortable going.

This is the sort of stuff that happens all the bloody time in the Ladies.
 
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Only if you retcon the word "woman" to only mean some magical gendery soul that people are assumed to have. Up until about five minutes ago, "woman" was understood by ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ everyone to mean females.

A female deer is a doe. A female horse is a mare. A female sheep is a ewe. A female goat is a nanny. A female chicken is a hen. A female fox is a vixen.

Why don't human females get to have a term that simultaneously identifies both species and sex?

He's saying, words mean what I say they mean, not what they have meant for hundreds of years and what most sensible adults think they still mean. And by my brand-new definition, I win.

It's puerile.
 
Because we are getting called to the carpet by a lot of people that are saying things have been cis-exclusive for too long, and it literally violates our principles of non-discrimination by gender.
We've been sex-specific for a very long time, which necessitates being male-exclusive or female-exclusive in many situations.

The principle of being non-discriminatory on the basis of someone's internal, subjective, and unverifiable feelings about themselves is not only absurd, it directly leads to effective discrimination against females on the basis of actual objective and observable sex.
 
All you really need to know about what's been happening can be deduced by comparing the amount of time spent talking about and catering for the feelings of trans-identified men, compared to the amount of time spent considering the feelings of women.
 
Right. Only as it applies to the EA. In other applications, the definitions are outside the scope of the ruling.
The EA applies to restrooms, changing rooms, showers, spas, hospital wings, athletics, and a host of other situations in which sex is deemed to be a meaningful and material distinction that supports separate provisions for males and females.

But sure, outside of that, sex doesn't apply. Because outside of that, sex is irrelevant.
 
He's saying, words mean what I say they mean, not what they have meant for hundreds of years and what most sensible adults think they still mean. And by my brand-new definition, I win.

It's puerile.
John-Tenniel-Humpty-Dumpty.webp
 
It doesn't mean "males overriding sex segregation whenever they want".
Yes, it actually does. Perhaps it's not what's intended by those who have good intentions... but the actual for-realsies effect is to give males the entitlement to override sex segregation whenever the ◊◊◊◊ they want to. Because literally all they need to do is say the magic words "I'm trans". Nothing else at all, just say magic words and sex-segregation doesn't apply to them - the magic has transformed them into a "woman".
 
It doesn't mean "males overriding sex segregation whenever they want".
That is exactly what it means. How does it not mean that? If transwomen are women, and any male who says they are trans is a transwoman, then they can, in fact, override sex segregation whenever they want. Never mind claims about intention, that's the actual effect. And we've seen it put into practice.
 
Even the wiki page didn't present stats, because it really doesn't even statistically exist. Rachel Dozeal is the lead example, and she never for a minute even suggested she thought she was actually black. The very short list of 'sufferers' of this all appear to be insincere, or at least not claiming to actually believe this so much as strongly identify with this other race, without actively believing they are so. That's not the case with trans people.
They sincerely *identify* as a race that they objectively are not.

Transgender identified males don't actively believe they're females. They wish that they were females, and they desire that other people would perceive them as being female even though they aren't. They *identify* as female.

It's 100% the case with trans people.
 
You're not. If they ain't bothering you, it ain't ya business.
You're now back around to arguing that males should be given the *right* to violate female boundaries without our consent, and it's not our business. You're not even trying to argue that it's only "genuine transwomen" we're talking about - you acknowledge that there's literally no way for us to tell who is and is not a "genuine transwoman"... but females are just supposed to what? Suck it up and know our places?
 
What does that solution do negatively to females? They have pure privacy when needed, and when it doesn't matter, females are likely much safer with others around. A lone attacker is at a disadvantage with multiple people around, some of which would be male.
Because we don't want rando males around when we have to wash out skivvies in a sink and then dry them under an air-dryer! Why is this so ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hard to understand?
 
No, I think it's what we are talking about. We didn't ask white people what they wanted when integrating schools. We did what we needed to do as a nation.
... Therefore we shouldn't ask females what they want when it comes to spaces where they're naked or vulnerable, we should just make the decision that females don't have a say and give males the right by law to violate female boundaries.

Yay, progress!
 
Right, you are bluntly saying "if they lie". The trans rights people aren't advocating for anyone but that trivial half percent who actually, honestly identify as trans.
You're appealing to claimed intentions, and ignoring actual effects. Under self ID, there is no possible way to determine if someone is lying about their identity. In fact, taken at face value, self ID makes it impossible to lie. If someone's self-declaration is their identity (which is what self-ID means), then nobody can lie about it. What you declare is axiomatically the truth, because declaring it makes it so.
 
I don't think you would recognise self-exclusion if it came up and slapped you in the face.
I recognise self-exclusion because my daughters unfortunately practice it. After their experiences with transwomen, they now won't use public restrooms unless they absolutely have to. They will either hold on until they get home, or try driving to a friends place. They have had to make adjustments to the way they do things to minimize the risk of needing to go, for example, going to the local swimming pool already changed.
I don't think you have any care at all for the women who are simply not taking part in things because there is no bathroom or changing room for them to go to. I don't think you have any care at all for the women who are unhappy and uncomfortable and feel that their dignity is being violated. They're not even on your radar. And that's before we even start on sporting opportunities being lost to males. Because self-ID is not just about bathrooms and changing rooms.

The only thing on your radar seems to be making men who want to go in women's spaces comfortable.
Yup. His whole shtick is "me, me, me, me, me"
 
What do you mean by 'transgender identified females'? Do you mean transmen or transwomen? Either way that's a stupid insistence.
Female is an unambiguous term. It's the fixed constant in all of this - sex in humans is binary and unchangeable.

Therefore, a transgender identified female is a female human being that identifies themself as being transgender - they wish to be perceived as being a male, even though they objectively are not.
 
Because we don't want rando males around when we have to wash out skivvies in a sink and then dry them under an air-dryer! Why is this so ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hard to understand?
Ok, knock it off. The scenario as posed specifically allowed for single occupancy privacy rooms, for exactly that reason. So you are just gonna play make pretend and strawman it? Come on, EC.
 

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