Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

I see Vixen has still not provided any evidence of her claims I've asked for several times. I think from her silence that we can safely assume she has none.

 

[Numbers]

I've finished reading Amanda Knox's memoir Free: My Search for Meaning. There's a lot of information in the book, and perhaps many will find her description of her efforts to reach out to Mignini and the excerpts of their letters and their meeting in Italy highly interesting.

Also of interest may be the difference in opinion between Amanda and her family about how to view Mignini and whether or not she should even have attempted to contact him on a personal level. The family's view of Mignini, in short, was negative: a repulsive abhorrent evil person*, "a criminal, a delusional maniac" (page 162 of the hard-bound edition). Amanda's view was that there was some humanity within Mignini that she could reach by approaching him using statements displaying intentional kindness. This was part of Amanda's adoption of seeking agency by using words and acts of intentional kindness.

* a definition approximating the meaning of the word appearing in the book

 

[SpitfireIX]

Ricardo Pinella is Height: 1,84 m.

He is a good four inches taller than Guede,


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According to his Eurobasket.com page, Rudy Guede is is 180cm (5'11) tall. So, assuming your 1.84m is correct, Panella is a good four centimeters (1.5in) taller than Guede. Further, Guede, being African, likely has longer arms than an average Caucasian male of the same height (source, just because I've seen your attempts to throw out red herrings by creating faux controversies in the past).

 

[Stacyhs]

According to his Eurobasket.com page, Rudy Guede is is 180cm (5'11) tall. So, assuming your 1.84m is correct, Panella is a good four centimeters (1.5in) taller than Guede. Further, Guede, being African, likely has longer arms than an average Caucasian male of the same height (source, just because I've seen your attempts to throw out red herrings by creating faux controversies in the past).

But, 1.5 inches would make all the difference in the world in being able to climb that wall!

 

[SpitfireIX]

To add to @Stacyhs's response:

It's a shame they had to heavily edit the video so that we couldn't see him:

It's a shame you and your ilk have to pretend there's a conspiracy to manufacture evidence that's favorable to Knox and Sollecito.

• jump over the car park railings nine feet to the ground without hurting himself (strange, the video cuts off that bit)

Why are you assuming he jumped?? (Don't answer; that's a rhetorical question. I know why. ) Even if there was nothing on the wall to climb on, he could have just lowered himself until he was hanging from the top. His feet would only have been about a foot or so off the ground, and he could have just dropped from there.

• see how he got onto the window sill in one movement instead of several unconnected clips.

They showed him climbing until his hands were on the window sill with one continuous take. It's blindingly obvious that from there, he could have just grabbed the bars (which, of course, didn't exist when Kercher was murdered anyway) and used them to pull himself on up, as we see in the video. So, exactly what is it that you think is being concealed??

• an experienced 'climbing enthusiast' as he self-describes himself, might know how to throw himself up with a few leaps but it is not something that most people could achieve without practice.

Argument from personal incredulity. Why do you think you know better than he does?? Further, he doesn't "throw himself up with a few leaps." He climbs from the ground up the window until his hands are on the sill.

• We clearly see him clutching onto the bars, but Guede would not have had any bars to grab, as they were only installed in 2009.

Yes, and if you'd been paying attention, you would have known that this is mentioned in the video. He had to grab the bars to climb up because he didn't have any way to get inside.

• After the murder there were actually two burglaries and both entered via the other side of the building where it is ten times easier for an intruder (privacy, low height, easy climb).

And, as Stacy pointed out, the door was barred.

The fact the defence had to heavily doctor the video to make the climb of a sheer 12' wall actually underlines that there was nothing 'easy' about it at all, plus they lobbed a metre off its true height.

The video is not "heavily doctored." That's just your ridiculous spin, in an attempt to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about this very strong evidence.

 

[Numbers]

According to his Eurobasket.com page, Rudy Guede is is 180cm (5'11) tall. So, assuming your 1.84m is correct, Panella is a good four centimeters (1.5in) taller than Guede. Further, Guede, being African, likely has longer arms than an average Caucasian male of the same height (source, just because I've seen your attempts to throw out red herrings by creating faux controversies in the past).

Perhaps Vixen confused centimeters and inches. Assuming 184 cm and 180 cm are the exact heights of Panella and Guede, their heights in inches would be, to 3 decimal places, 72.441 in and 70.866 in. The height difference is 1.575 in.

Based on the photo evidence of the lawyer standing on the 2nd highest rung of the lower window grill having his head and shoulders at the level or above the upper window lower sill, the distance from the lower window upper casement to the upper window lower sill is about 3 ft = 36 in. There's no reason to doubt that a strong athlete of Guede's height could make the climb.

The real question is why the police and Mignini discarded the realistic hypothesis of a burglar entering by climbing to the upper window, after tossing the rock through the upper window, so quickly and adopted instead the hypothesis of a staged burglary, a hypothesis not supported by any credible evidence.

 

[TomG]

According to his Eurobasket.com page, Rudy Guede is is 180cm (5'11) tall. So, assuming your 1.84m is correct, Panella is a good four centimeters (1.5in) taller than Guede. Further, Guede, being African, likely has longer arms than an average Caucasian male of the same height (source, just because I've seen your attempts to throw out red herrings by creating faux controversies in the past).

Ricardo doesn't even stand on the bars, though he uses his height to his advantage in stretching to grab the top windowsill. Even if Rudy couldn't manage the stretch in the same way as Ricardo, he could have stood on the bars of the lower window to gain height.

 

[Vixen]

That is indeed unfortunate, but you'll just have to console yourself with your precious 'legal facts' because the world is now well aware those are not real facts and that Knox had nothing to do with the murder.

No, please don't bother to tell us your elaborate fairy story again.

"I cannot lie. I was there. " ~ Knox wiretap talking to her mother Edda in private.


"That's fine by us!" ~ The PIP.



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[Vixen]

In case anyone is confused by this alleged evidence, it most likely is the result of small pieces of paper being moved through the air when the murder room door was quickly opened or closed. I'm fairly confident most readers here are familiar with that phenomenon.

Also recall that under Italian law, a fact can only be established from alleged evidence if that evidence is serious (meaningful), precise, and consistent. Because there is an explanation for the papers floating onto the duvet not related to the crime itself, and that is more probable than any crime-related hypothesis, the papers on the duvet cannot be used to legally establish any judicial fact.

"it most likely is the result of small pieces of paper being moved through the air when the murder room door was quickly opened or closed".


Thanks for the best laugh I have had all week!

 

[Vixen]

What part of what I said or the videos leads you to (incorrectly) infer that?

ETA: Did you think it would go unnoticed that you failed to address the actual topic: the photos show car headlights did NOT illuminate FR's window.

It is on an incline. Your headlights are immediately in front of the house, not from a few metres further back approaching it.


.

 

[Vixen]

Hopefully the English version will be released soon. I'm interested in her lawyers' response and what grounds for appeal they may have.

I did a quick search for Italian media coverage hoping they might give some details but no luck.

I am guessing anything to stay in the public spotlight.



.

 

[Vixen]

I've finished reading Amanda Knox's memoir Free: My Search for Meaning. There's a lot of information in the book, and perhaps many will find her description of her efforts to reach out to Mignini and the excerpts of their letters and their meeting in Italy highly interesting.

Also of interest may be the difference in opinion between Amanda and her family about how to view Mignini and whether or not she should even have attempted to contact him on a personal level. The family's view of Mignini, in short, was negative: a repulsive abhorrent evil person*, "a criminal, a delusional maniac" (page 162 of the hard-bound edition). Amanda's view was that there was some humanity within Mignini that she could reach by approaching him using statements displaying intentional kindness. This was part of Amanda's adoption of seeking agency by using words and acts of intentional kindness.

* a definition approximating the meaning of the word appearing in the book

Oh please, not the 'wicked prosecutor' act again.


.

 

[Vixen]

According to his Eurobasket.com page, Rudy Guede is is 180cm (5'11) tall. So, assuming your 1.84m is correct, Panella is a good four centimeters (1.5in) taller than Guede. Further, Guede, being African, likely has longer arms than an average Caucasian male of the same height (source, just because I've seen your attempts to throw out red herrings by creating faux controversies in the past).

Great logic! "Guede is African so of course, he is a natural athlete and surely has extraordinarily long arms, so of course he is better at scaling twelve-and-half-feet walls than any accomplished rock climber four inches taller. Stands to reason, don't it? Case closed, M'Lud."


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[Vixen]

But, 1.5 inches would make all the difference in the world in being able to climb that wall!

Er, the difference between 6'2" and 5'10" is four inches, rounded up from the equivalent centimetres.

 

[Vixen]

Yes, and if you'd been paying attention, you would have known that this is mentioned in the video. He had to grab the bars to climb up because he didn't have any way to get inside.

What? He didn't have any shattered window pane shards to cling onto...?


If the video is not heavily doctored, let's see the whole thing and not just highly selected highlights designed by the defence.




.

 

[Vixen]

Ricardo doesn't even stand on the bars, though he uses his height to his advantage in stretching to grab the top windowsill. Even if Rudy couldn't manage the stretch in the same way as Ricardo, he could have stood on the bars of the lower window to gain height.

And the leverage needed? The window sill is extremely narrow so that wouldn't help to lift up his body by his arms to shoulder height and even then, he'd have to let go of one arm, perching on the other, to hoist himself through the smashed window which is still shuttered on the inside by the inner shutters. The clasp being much further to the left and higher up. Oh, but of course,'Guede has extraordinarily long arms being an African chap'.

 

[TomG]

This passage from the M/R is interesting:

"15.1. The interpretation of the content of the memorial, given by the ECHR in the sense of retraction of the accusatory statements already made verbally
to the investigators, is not binding, and today's judgment is not limited to an acknowledgement of this approach. If it were otherwise, the reopening of the trial on the merits, ordered by the Court of Cassation, would be meaningless."

So it seems that the Supreme Court don't regard the ECHR considerations that the memoriale and prison intercept were retractions a "binding". I can't imagine them making that sort of clamorous error, so maybe they know something that we don't. It might be worth investigating.

 

[Welshman]

I've finished reading Amanda Knox's memoir Free: My Search for Meaning. There's a lot of information in the book, and perhaps many will find her description of her efforts to reach out to Mignini and the excerpts of their letters and their meeting in Italy highly interesting.

Also of interest may be the difference in opinion between Amanda and her family about how to view Mignini and whether or not she should even have attempted to contact him on a personal level. The family's view of Mignini, in short, was negative: a repulsive abhorrent evil person*, "a criminal, a delusional maniac" (page 162 of the hard-bound edition). Amanda's view was that there was some humanity within Mignini that she could reach by approaching him using statements displaying intentional kindness. This was part of Amanda's adoption of seeking agency by using words and acts of intentional kindness.

* a definition approximating the meaning of the word appearing in the book

I can understand how Amanda's family felt about Mignini as Mignini is a thoroughly nasty piece of work as his track record proves. If I was in Amanda's position I don't think I would want any contact with him. Amanda suffered enormously due to Mignini. He decided straight away after Meredith's body was discovered that Amanda was guilty with no evidence to support this view. Numerous abuses were committed under Mignini denying access to lawyers in the interrogation, feeding false information to the media, lying to Amanda she had HIV, lying in court and suppressing evidence and carrying out fraud. Amanda lost four years of her life and could have spent her life in prison due to Mignini. The last thing I would want to do is reach out to this scumbag.

 

[TomG]

And the leverage needed? The window sill is extremely narrow so that wouldn't help to lift up his body by his arms to shoulder height and even then, he'd have to let go of one arm, perching on the other, to hoist himself through the smashed window which is still shuttered on the inside by the inner shutters. The clasp being much further to the left and higher up. Oh, but of course,'Guede has extraordinarily long arms being an African chap'.

And the leverage needed? The window sill is extremely narrow so that wouldn't help to lift up his body by his arms to shoulder height and even then, he'd have to let go of one arm, perching on the other, to hoist himself through the smashed window which is still shuttered on the inside by the inner shutters. The clasp being much further to the left and higher up. Oh, but of course,'Guede has extraordinarily long arms being an African chap'.

Well, there are now bars on the upper windows, so your speculative comment can't be proven one way or the other. If I were in the same height and position as Ricardo and Delfo Beretti in the photograph, I'd fancy my chances of getting in.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If the interior shutters were closed, was the rock and all the broken glass found outside?
<edit to add> I'm asking because I don't know and search is broken. I avoided this thread for many years because the topic was just too painful; I was working with Meredith's brother when this happened. So there are a lot of questions-asked-a-thousand-times which I don't know about.